RE: Does he own my womb?

RE: Does he own my womb? (Full Version)

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thetammyjo -> RE: Does he own my womb? (12/8/2006 2:04:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SusanofO thetammyjo: I had a feeling you would discuss this with your slaves. You strike me as the "responsible type". Touche'! And good for MsOpal, too. Guess I am a bit "judgemental" on this topic (but, we all have been gieven a brain so we can use it, have we not)? - Susan Thank you. I'm also a talking/communication freak and have ths huge list of things to discuss before I'll even train something and that list just expands if things go to that point or further. From a purely practical and selfish view I have to protect myself and everyone in my household so damn straight I'm gonna figure out as much as is humanly possible.

Lordandmaster -> RE: Does he own my womb? (12/8/2006 2:41:46 PM)
Ironic, too, because at first she was saying that being a slave doesn't put you on a higher level. quote: ORIGINAL: KatyLied quote: If your [sic] not willing or wanting to go deep and give it all up then don't be a slave That should be all it takes to get the sub vs slave argument going.

Rover -> RE: Does he own my womb? (12/8/2006 3:07:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross This is why I roll my eyes when people list off limits as "kids, dogs and death"- what about THIS sort of stuff? THIS is the stuff that we actually DEAL with in life, the stuff you actually have to TALK about and really make sure you are understanding on. Amen to that, LA. AMEN!! John

AquaticSub -> RE: Does he own my womb? (12/8/2006 3:20:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sophia37 I must say, when it comes to pregnancy, you just cant know how you'd feel until it happens to you. You may have rationalized it completely in advance and come to some very common sense desicions. But then suddenly you get pregnant, even if youve taken every precaution agaisnt it. Now what? Its not the same thing all of a sudden. Like marraige, its never what you thought. Thanks. We have discussed what we would do numerous times but it still doesn't help when you are looking at the EPT and hoping for one line instead of two.

RumpusParable -> RE: Does he own my womb? (12/8/2006 3:33:03 PM)
This is really not something that comes up for me in any situation, vanilla or either side of my switching. The what-ifs are always firmly negotiated prior to a relationship where sex will be involved for me. My choices regarding pregnancy are Hard Limits, so I've none of the grey area others have to deal with. On the non-personal side of things, I still call it the same way for others: If you're going to be in a relationship where pregnancy is a possibility, then the whens and what-to-dos in case of accident should be hashed out in the beginning talks. One should agree long before any risk of pregnancy who has say, how much, and what the plan is. It's too large of a thing Not to break down to details on and make serious plans for. For a particular relationship, I can't say what the hows and whats and who-says should be as only those in the relationship know how they feel, what type of relationship it is, how they can care for a possible child or if both want one, etc. Too many variables to give a "always this" or "always that". Only that it should be negotiated, discussed, planned for before the crisis arises. That's my take.

RumpusParable -> RE: Does he own my womb? (12/8/2006 3:38:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sophia37 I must say, when it comes to pregnancy, you just cant know how you'd feel until it happens to you. You may have rationalized it completely in advance and come to some very common sense desicions. But then suddenly you get pregnant, even if youve taken every precaution agaisnt it. Now what? Its not the same thing all of a sudden. Like marraige, its never what you thought. I can't agree with this and have never understood how someone can Not know how they'd react or feel about anything they thought about beforehand. I've only seen this in those and in myself when the time hasn't been taken to really think about it. I always know exactly how I'll feel about something, how I'll react, if I've taken time to think ahead. In my short life this has been tested many a times by various things, never once has a situation I'd thought ahead on caused a differing of feeling or choice than that I'd expected and/or decided upon ahead of time.

catize -> RE: Does he own my womb? (12/8/2006 3:44:31 PM)
quote: As a slave; yes he would also own that part of me. But who 'owns' the baby?

AquaticSub -> RE: Does he own my womb? (12/8/2006 4:02:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RumpusParable quote: ORIGINAL: sophia37 I must say, when it comes to pregnancy, you just cant know how you'd feel until it happens to you. You may have rationalized it completely in advance and come to some very common sense desicions. But then suddenly you get pregnant, even if youve taken every precaution agaisnt it. Now what? Its not the same thing all of a sudden. Like marraige, its never what you thought. I can't agree with this and have never understood how someone can Not know how they'd react or feel about anything they thought about beforehand. I've only seen this in those and in myself when the time hasn't been taken to really think about it. I always know exactly how I'll feel about something, how I'll react, if I've taken time to think ahead. In my short life this has been tested many a times by various things, never once has a situation I'd thought ahead on caused a differing of feeling or choice than that I'd expected and/or decided upon ahead of time. Have you ever been pregnant? Most of the time I react the way I think I will. Never with possibly pregnancies. I have had two serious "scares" in my life. Once I was overjoyed, being even younger then I am now and foolish, and now: terrified. Even talking doesn't make it perfect. You can't count on outside factors, like parents pressuring you or terrible circumstances. You can only make yourself as ready as you possibly can but I don't think you are ever ready for a situation that is going to be make every second of your life different till you die.

AquaticSub -> RE: Does he own my womb? (12/8/2006 4:04:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: catize quote: As a slave; yes he would also own that part of me. But who 'owns' the baby? I don't know but that is a topic for a different thread. Plus I fear that will risk getting the thread pulled and I'd like to avoid that if possible.

SusanofO -> RE: Does he own my womb? (12/8/2006 4:06:28 PM)
I remember this situation (for me) like it was yesterday. It ruined my relationship. It's scarier than hell. I won't bore anyone with the dirty details, but - I went to counselling for months, afterward. My BF committed suicide a year later (when I was then engaged to someone else) and to this day, I am convinced that the way he "helped me handle it" is part of the reason for that, although he was apparently very depressed at the time for many reasons (and I do take responsibility for my part in what happened, as well. And I was taking birth control pills at the time, for course). I ended our relationship by tellling him I hoped he'd burn in Hell, right along with me...etc. This was someone I'd previously wanted to marry and been in love with, too. I moved out of his house, and tried to never look back (but obviously, I didn't forget all about it entirely). We'd never discussed this possibility, and he told me he was "too old" (he was 16 years older than I was), too tired, and too poor to be a "proper father". I didn't care about money or his age. I literally begged him to re-consider his stance (for days and days). He gave me valium to shut me up and make me go to sleep, when he got tired of watching me cry about it. He wouldn't budge. He was a real hard-ass about it (but I do take responsibility for my decision. But I still don't feel "good" about it, much less "justified", to this day). And, I never got another chance to have my own child, either. That was my one and only pregnancy (and now it's too late for me). My husband turned out to not want children at all (even though he'd told me otherwise when we were engaged, and for a few years when we were first married. I almost divorced him due to that, but am a Catholic and didn't really think that was a great route to take, since I was already going to Hell after I died, etc. I was ready to walk out, eventually, though, due to that and many other things - and then....well, I'd rather not discuss the rest. If God wanted revenge on me, He sure got it. Granted, I could adopt, and I do a lot of volunteer work with unmentionables.I am not meaning to sound "bitter". I'm not (despite what it sounds like). I do definitely think it's a situation to not be taken lightly, and seeing it listed as a topic here just "brought it all back", which isn't a bad thing, necessarily, if it might help anyone else, I guess. You never know what will happen to you next - life is full of surprises. I rarely talk about this, but now seems like a perfect time to do it. I've managed to lead quite a fulfilling and generally contented life. But - his and my actions in this situation made a definite difference in the road my life took I (and also affected my ability to trust men). I rarely discuss this, and am a generally happy person, not one that walks around with a huge chip on my shoulder re: This. But - I do really, really think it makes a difference to find out where someone stands on this issue. Guess I went into detail after all. Hope I didn't bore anyone. But - enough about me. And, you two seem to have a handle on eachother's attitudes and devoted to eachother, though, and I do realize that everyone's attitudes are different re: What is right or wrong to do. Good luck. I'm am not trying to scare you, you already know what to do. But I think it's a serious situation. - Susan

BeingChewsie -> RE: Does he own my womb? (12/8/2006 4:16:40 PM)
My owner avoided this by having me spayed. He really wasn't interested whether or not I might want more children down the road( I have one from a previous relationship). He certainly would not have children with a slave so having me spayed was the simplest and easiest solution. He wanted free use of his property without consequence. He would of required me to abort, and did not want to put me in that position should something happen. People need to discuss these types of issues before hand.

Sinergy -> RE: Does he own my womb? (12/8/2006 4:33:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: catize quote: As a slave; yes he would also own that part of me. But who 'owns' the baby? I have gone through this entire thread reading about people on all sides of the question discussing whether the Dom/Master owns the sub/slave's womb and the inequities and problems of real life issues like pregnancy affecting the power dynamic of their relationship. Yet this is the first post that seems to actually care about the life that is being brought (or not) into this world. The baby will cause huge changes in the dynamic between the two people. As somebody who successfully raised 2 unmentionables, I would be the first to point out to anybody that when drool buckets and then nose miners come out, the parents life becomes about the unmentionable. I had a friend tell me when my lawn gorillas were small that he thought I did a great job raising them, but that in his opinion many parents are simply fucked in the head. If you feed and clothe them, they eventually become curtain climbers, yard apes, think of their parents as ATM machines, dont put gas in the car they borrow, and eventually start dating. So I would say that this is not really a question about who owns the womb. The question is about parenting and ownership (and its attendant responsibilities) of the child. Just me, could be wrong, etc. Sinergy

RumpusParable -> RE: Does he own my womb? (12/8/2006 4:52:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AquaticSub quote: ORIGINAL: RumpusParable quote: ORIGINAL: sophia37 I must say, when it comes to pregnancy, you just cant know how you'd feel until it happens to you. You may have rationalized it completely in advance and come to some very common sense desicions. But then suddenly you get pregnant, even if youve taken every precaution agaisnt it. Now what? Its not the same thing all of a sudden. Like marraige, its never what you thought. I can't agree with this and have never understood how someone can Not know how they'd react or feel about anything they thought about beforehand. I've only seen this in those and in myself when the time hasn't been taken to really think about it. I always know exactly how I'll feel about something, how I'll react, if I've taken time to think ahead. In my short life this has been tested many a times by various things, never once has a situation I'd thought ahead on caused a differing of feeling or choice than that I'd expected and/or decided upon ahead of time. Have you ever been pregnant? Most of the time I react the way I think I will. Never with possibly pregnancies. I have had two serious "scares" in my life. Once I was overjoyed, being even younger then I am now and foolish, and now: terrified. Even talking doesn't make it perfect. You can't count on outside factors, like parents pressuring you or terrible circumstances. You can only make yourself as ready as you possibly can but I don't think you are ever ready for a situation that is going to be make every second of your life different till you die. Three serious scares to date despite good preventive measures. Not once was there a variation in how I knew I'd feel and what my choice would be and how I felt when the scare occurred. Why would parent pressure or such even be a factor? I thought we were discussing the actions of adults. By "terrible circumstances" I can only assume you mean by rape, as I can't see any other circumstance where one would be risking pregnancy during it. In the case of rape, again, this is something that can happen at any time so you think ahead to what you would do if you were to be raped and became pregnant from it. Then, if and when it happens, you have no surprises of emotion or action. And before asked, yes, I've been raped. Thankfully, no scare either time but was ready to carry out my pre-made decisions should my period be late and I be pregnant.

KatyLied -> RE: Does he own my womb? (12/8/2006 5:04:08 PM)
quote: but am a Catholic and didn't really think that was a great route to take, since I was already going to Hell after I died, etc. ? I thought that if Catholics confess their sins, with the proper intention that they are forgiven.

SusanofO -> RE: Does he own my womb? (12/8/2006 5:06:34 PM)
Katy: They are forgiven. But this is considered a "mortal" (and deliberate) sin by Catholics. I still wish I hadn't done it - and I wasn't convinced I was actually forgiven for it, for many, many years, since I could have had the baby all by myself and told my BF to go screw himself. It took years for me to reconcile my decision in my own head and heart (that's one thing a good Catholic education will do for you, although there is a lot I appreciate about Catholicism, too). It all happened so fast - one day, I was in the emergency room because I had these "weird cramps" that turned out to be a baby...a few days later I was under anesthesia, asking the abortion clinic doctor if I would have had a girl, or a boy (which he didn't want to tell me, but he finally did. It would have been a boy - as old as my nephew is today). The ER doctor was a total and compelte nitwit, btw. I was horrified when he told me at first, and said: "Oh no, this is not what I'd planned on". He then lectured me about how "Everyone wants a baby", and how I should be "thrilled". I just remember wanting to punch him out for that, even though I was (secretly) a little excited about it (but scared to tell my BF). It was an all-around thrilling experience. One of the clinic "protesters" threw a tomato at the women walking into the clinic, as if making this decision was like deciding what to eat for breakfast, or something. It didn't hit anyone, though - and someone asked her to leave and escorted her away (it was pretty memorable for me). I wished she'd have hit me with it. I felt like I did deserve to be hit with it. Today, I am "more okay" with it, but if I had it to do over, I would not make the decision I made. Easy to say in retrospect, but I know I would not. At the time, he was 46 (I was 30). I had two part-time jobs and was barely keeping body-and-soul together. He didn't make a tremendous salary as a therpist (but we could have made it work. But it takes two people, I think, to make it work). Bottom-line: He didn't want the baby. At all. I acted like a coward (and so did my BF, I think). It's the main reason we broke up. I'll never feel otherwise (and that may be due to my Cathoic education, but it's what I still feel. I am in no way, shape or form proud of myself for it). It was not, despite what many seem to believe, an "easy decision" though. I do know people who seem to consider abortion a form of "birth control" and I'd never feel that way. But I do believe it's a personal decision (and my feelings undoubtedly have a lot to do with how I was raised, and honestly do respect whatever people choose to do). My point is that not discussing it can have some long-term ramifications. - Susan

Tikkiee -> RE: Does he own my womb? (12/8/2006 5:17:15 PM)
quote: Who decides what to do? Well, since I have made it plain that I don't want children...at all...and since it is something that we have discussed already...IF by chance I was to get pregnant, he would make the decision as to how to proceed. I will be honest though, IF that was to ever happen, I would hope that he would wish for an abortion; simply because I know that he would never consider adoption.

PrimitiveLogic -> RE: Does he own my womb? (12/8/2006 5:32:09 PM)
I clearly agree that there are significant long reaching issues that this reality will affect in the short and long term view. Not just the mode of agreement and discussion; but the impact on the dynamics of power. Well...let's take this a step further. So she has this child....she belongs to Him; does that mean the child is His property too? Aside from her relationship, we don't hear alot of how children of subs n slaves really fit in to the ownership structure in a day to day functional basis. We hear of the challenges of privacy when scening...but not the concept of family heirarchical ownership. PS. Just because they're yours...doeshe get to do with them what he wants to? Ahh parenthood.and its paradigm mutation.

AquaticSub -> RE: Does he own my womb? (12/8/2006 5:36:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RumpusParable Three serious scares to date despite good preventive measures. Not once was there a variation in how I knew I'd feel and what my choice would be and how I felt when the scare occurred. Why would parent pressure or such even be a factor? I thought we were discussing the actions of adults. By "terrible circumstances" I can only assume you mean by rape, as I can't see any other circumstance where one would be risking pregnancy during it. In the case of rape, again, this is something that can happen at any time so you think ahead to what you would do if you were to be raped and became pregnant from it. Then, if and when it happens, you have no surprises of emotion or action. And before asked, yes, I've been raped. Thankfully, no scare either time but was ready to carry out my pre-made decisions should my period be late and I be pregnant. Then you are one of the fortunate few. And believe me, it's few. No women I've ever met or encountered has able to know how she will feel if she became pregnant by accident. While you are lucky like this, I would advise that you remember that you are unusual and not the normal. I meant terrible circumstances for raising a child. I'm in college. He's looking for a job. We aren't really "prime parent material". Parents have a lot to do with things when you are 21, living in a house they own, driving a car they own, and they are paying for your college education. Yes I can give up all that and get a job, but it would be really nice to have them continue to pay for my college.

KatyLied -> RE: Does he own my womb? (12/8/2006 5:40:22 PM)
I'm sure you must feel relieved, in some way, to have this out on the table. And perhaps it's time to look at a method of birth control that is more reliable, then you won't need to worry as much. Do heed earlier advice and take another test because, there can be false negatives.

maudite -> RE: Does he own my womb? (12/8/2006 5:40:41 PM)
I can't speak for anyone else, but I'd run far, far away from any dom who so much as suggested that he was entitled to decide whether I should have a child or not. But you could just look at that as kids being a hard limit for me.

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