RE: How do u draw the line between submissive and doormat.

RE: How do u draw the line between submissive and doormat. (Full Version)

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Slavetrainer2007 -> RE: How do u draw the line between submissive and doormat. (4/3/2007 8:57:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FiestyFi Hi, I like to think I’m a feisty submissive, someone who isn’t a complete pushover, but a bit of a challenge. Who enjoys pleasing and making a dom pleased. At the same time I don’t want to lose my identity, views or principles. To me I’m sexually submissive, not a submissive in everyday life. I don’t want to be a cook, cleaner, maid, or doormat. I want to be an equal, with equal rights. I want to help make important relationship decisions, and important life decisions. That said I’m quite happy for a dom to chose what I do, where and when, what I wear and what I eat, I find that a powerful exchange between the opposite sex. But being responsible for a Dom’s everyday life, including, cooking, cleaning, washing, ironing, etc is not something I want to sign up for 365 days of the year 24/7. Unless married, or in some very long term relationship and even then it’s not something I want my role to be! I’m quite the feminist, so I don’t like the role of a weaker woman, who does all these things. Don’t get me wrong I enjoy doing them sometimes, if I know a certain thing will please my dom, then I will go to great length's to do that. I enjoy pleasing people in general, pleasing a dom guy is just as exciting to me. To me you say the word submissive and it’s a person who has no say, control or input. So how do u try and retain some of that say, control or input? Can you just be sexually submissive? Or does it have to be a whole submissive thing? Do I have to drop being a feminist? Am I destined to be a submissive in every aspect of a relationship by being the doormat? N.B I’m not some mad woman who is going to through myself in front of a horse for the feminist cause. It’s just some certain beliefs that I have! I'm a complete sub newbie, forgive me if I offend. I will admit i havent read the other replys to this post yet. In a way you seem to have the terms confused. Being submissive DOES NOT MEAN: doormat, pushover, easy, or weak. A doormat to me is someone who lets someone else walk over them. AKA: they do all the giving and they really get no benefits out of the situation. Its a one way relationship.Most submissive and even those that consider themselves slaves, pets, and property typically wont tolerate such a relationship. I have found submissives in general to be the strongest women. As it takes a strong woman to serve and please a strong dominate man. Most vanilla women couldnt handle a dominate man( i know i learned the hard way). Seeing a submissive as a weak person is not really seeing what it is to be submissive. Also their are many degrees of being submissive. Some people are only slightly submissive or submissive in certain situations. Some are extreme submissives to the point of wanting to be micromanaged( i was talking to one just a couple of days ago that wants to be caged when not being used) and their is everything in between. The same goes for doms. Their are doms that may like to just be dominate in certain areas but want more of a vanilla relationship in others. Their are doms that like to micromanage and control every little aspect( personally i find this very tedious). In both cases they are still dominate. Their are some areas you want to be dominated in and some you dont from the looks of your post. Which is perfectly normal in a D/s. You just have to find a Dom that shares your interest and wants to dominate in the areas you want to be dominated in and doesnt want to dominate you in the areas you dont. You definately have the wrong idea of a submissive. The way i like to explain to explain it to newbies and vanillas is : In a vanilla relationship control is basically 50/50 , In a D/s relationship the control is more one sided, but that control is given by the sub side not just taken by the Dom. Subs GIVE control of themselves to their dom. The amount they give is based on what they are comfortable with. If a specific D/s relationship is more 75/25 then the sub gave up 25% of her control willingly. The dom didnt just take it from her. And she is happy to give him that extra 25%. How much control your willing to give is dependent on you. But it should always be given. If a dom trys to take it by force( outside of play of course or an arrangement in which you want him to take it from you) then i would look for a new dom. Most subs start out giving only a little to a Dom and as the relationship develops they give more willingly depending on what the feel comfortable with.

FukinTroll -> RE: How do u draw the line between submissive and doormat. (4/3/2007 9:06:29 PM)
How do u draw the line between submissive and doormat. With a sharpy?

IrishMist -> RE: How do u draw the line between submissive and doormat. (4/3/2007 11:55:19 PM)
Now Troll ahem we have already decided that chalk is the best to use /nods [8D]

Padriag -> RE: How do u draw the line between submissive and doormat. (4/4/2007 12:56:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FiestyFi To me you say the word submissive and it’s a person who has no say, control or input. So how do u try and retain some of that say, control or input? Of the statements that a submissive has no say, control, or input, I'd agree with only one out of three... and that even with a slave. There is no reason, other than personal preference, for a submissive to have no say, nor no input. The one thing they do lack (and generally don't want) is control. quote: Can you just be sexually submissive? Yes quote: Or does it have to be a whole submissive thing? Only if that's what you want and what is required of the dominant you are with. If you don't want that, look for a dominant that doesn't require it. quote: Do I have to drop being a feminist? No... though some feminist may tell you so (specifically some who disapprove of this lifestyle). quote: Am I destined to be a submissive in every aspect of a relationship by being the doormat? You tell me, what do you want? You seem to equate being fully submissive with being a doormat, why? What do you define as being a doormat?

eyesopened -> RE: How do u draw the line between submissive and doormat. (4/4/2007 1:49:51 AM)
sigh lables are so restrictive and people more complex. Does a firefighter only put out fires? Every job description i've ever read includes "and other duties as required" because none of us are just one-dimensional. We've been talking about submissive v "doormat" but not mentioned bottom. A bottom may or may not be submissive or submissive only in certain role-playing. shrug For me, the way to draw the line (with or without sharpie) is Responsibility. Who is responsible for an action's results and its consequences is who should control said action. i have always said that i cannot surrender control of something for which my Master does not assume responsibility. my Master wants me, when it is financially feasible, to quit working and serve Him full time. This is fine with me because He will assume the responsibility of providing for me financially. my Master loves me because i have a brain, a personality, solid work ethic, sense of humor, and the list goes on... my Master loves me and not an inanimate object. (although i will most likely serve as an object from time to time). my slavery does not take away my soul, it only changes my focus. When i take focus away from myself my view changes from closeup to panoramic.

SirDiscipliner69 -> RE: How do u draw the line between submissive and doormat. (4/4/2007 1:52:38 AM)
That would be how well the mud from My shoes is extracted by their ass when I scrape My muddy shoes. Ross ©º°¨¨°º©

darkinshadows -> RE: How do u draw the line between submissive and doormat. (4/4/2007 3:26:24 AM)
So to recapp - Anyone who enjoys service orientated roles and is not only a bedroom submissive, is not a feminist, is a doormat and is a weak person. Having read your post, my concern is that you are already caught up in the whole generalisation of what 'a submissive' is - your using stereotypical descriptions which simply do not exist in reality. Your post could be seen as insulting to everything you believe you are not. But basically, everything you have stated is not the right description for everyone. Only you. I know some really head screwed on tight, knock dead gorgeous doormats - male and female. Yet you use the term in a negative tone. I would suggest one looks deeper into oneself and as 'why'. I cook, I clean, I iron, I take out the rubbish. I also draw, paint and work damn hard. I look after and raise two children. I promote. I design. I love being submissive but am no 'a submissive' as to me the term is null and void, I also love serving in all ways I possily can. I am not a doormat - just like you - hey we have at least one thing in common. If you believe that these are all a sign of weakness then you are hardly a feminist, just incredibly judgemental and not in a positive way - now it could be said you have a weakness in your personality because of that... if anyone was judging you. quote: To me you say the word submissive and it’s a person who has no say, control or input. So how do u try and retain some of that say, control or input? Then I would suggest you were wrong for the majority and only right for you. If that is what you think, that is all it will ever be. quote: Can you just be sexually submissive? Or does it have to be a whole submissive thing? Yes you can, if that is what you want. Not sure what you mean by 'the whole submissive thing'. It's not a single thing, but a concept. quote: Do I have to drop being a feminist? No. But then feminism is about equal rights and freedom of choice no matter if you are female. But you already believe this isn't what submission is about, by your post, because anyone who doesn't fit your ideal is 'weak'. I know plenty of dominants who ultimately believe that the submissive type is the one who actually controls, not the dominant man simply because they do choose who they submit to and what they do and how far they go. Go figure. quote: Am I destined to be a submissive in every aspect of a relationship by being the doormat? Again you say it like its a bad thing. It isn't for some people, it is really releasing. It isn't my craving or goal, but I wouldnt knock anyone for who feel comfortable and free in that position.

puella -> RE: How do u draw the line between submissive and doormat. (4/4/2007 4:59:43 AM)
You have to remember that what you perceive to be a doormat, might not be perceived the same way by others. I also would caution against degrading what is natural in others. You do not want to cook, clean etc. To call someone weak because they accept, and perhaps even enjoy those roles in a relationship/household is wrong, in my opinion., especially considering those tasks NEED to be done by someone. Believe it or not, you can be intelligent, strong, capable, even strong willed, and submit profoundly to someone. You can be the caregiver and not be a doormat. I really do hate that term. It is just another rank in the caste system of 'who is the best submissive/slave' echelon. I would just say, be who you are most naturally, and recognize that there is just as much legitimacy and value in others’ most natural selves, even if it is not something you would desire for yourself.

sweetnurseBBW -> RE: How do u draw the line between submissive and doormat. (4/4/2007 5:23:59 AM)
I know people that like to live as doormats. Its not wrong its just how they choose to live. Doormat has gotten this negative stigma attatched to it. Just becuase someone chooses to live a certain way doesn't make it wrong. I enjoy living with TPE but I definatley self suffucient, independant minded and have alot of freedoms. Just because someone wants to live a different way doesn't make them a weaker person for it.

trampledslave1 -> RE: How do u draw the line between submissive and doormat. (4/4/2007 10:21:42 AM)
very well said,LadyHugs.i'm all those except for the traction for your car,lol. i'ts mostly about being owned, i'ts solid proof she owns you when she can walk on your face and body and you just lay there and take it. how can you refuse any comand after she just walked on your face

Owner4SexSlave -> RE: How do u draw the line between submissive and doormat. (4/4/2007 1:00:51 PM)
take out chalk use it to draw line around my doormat

stella40 -> RE: How do u draw the line between submissive and doormat. (4/4/2007 8:31:08 PM)
I think a point which people have missed here is control - a submissive has just as much control in a Dominant-submissive relationship as the Dominant. This is how I perceive it. How so? I'm the submissive in a relationship with a Domme..plus I write from experience. As a submissive I make things possible, at times make things happen. I can say 'yes' and I can say 'no', but in my relationship with my Domme I've chosen to say 'yes' and to say 'no' only when I have real justification. I'm relocating to my Domme,and yes I will handle the domestic chores, cleaning, cooking, housework, washing, ironing and assist with the childcare, because that is part of my role, but I am an active submissive, not passive or reactionary - which is what I believe many people perceive to be a doormat. I express my feelings and my love for my Domme through my submission to her and her alone. What she wants she gets, and I also use my initiative to see that she also gets what she needs when she needs it. My basic responsibility in our relationship is to guarantee her that she can dominate and control me in any way she chooses or needs to, or wishes to, without any limits, restrictions, hindrances, buts, ifs, or questions - and this is a responsibility I take very seriously. There are as many different ways of being submissive as there are submissives. The only right way is your way and the way your Dominant accepts, and it is neither worse nor better than any other way.

MzMia -> RE: How do u draw the line between submissive and doormat. (4/4/2007 8:41:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: stella40 I think a point which people have missed here is control - a submissive has just as much control in a Dominant-submissive relationship as the Dominant. This is how I perceive it. How so? I'm the submissive in a relationship with a Domme..plus I write from experience. As a submissive I make things possible, at times make things happen. I can say 'yes' and I can say 'no', but in my relationship with my Domme I've chosen to say 'yes' and to say 'no' only when I have real justification. I'm relocating to my Domme,and yes I will handle the domestic chores, cleaning, cooking, housework, washing, ironing and assist with the childcare, because that is part of my role, but I am an active submissive, not passive or reactionary - which is what I believe many people perceive to be a doormat. You are not a doormat, you are a loving, dedicated submissive! I express my feelings and my love for my Domme through my submission to her and her alone. What she wants she gets, and I also use my initiative to see that she also gets what she needs when she needs it. My basic responsibility in our relationship is to guarantee her that she can dominate and control me in any way she chooses or needs to, or wishes to, without any limits, restrictions, hindrances, buts, ifs, or questions - and this is a responsibility I take very seriously. If you are a doormat, I need one! There are as many different ways of being submissive as there are submissives. The only right way is your way and the way your Dominant accepts, and it is neither worse nor better than any other way. You sound like a wonderful submissive, she is lucky to have you. [:)] I want to create a doormats bill of rights. If someone wants to be a doormat? Let them be a fucking doormat. People have a right to be whatever they want to be. There is someone for everyone, doormats need love to. [:D] If you find a nice cute doormat that is over 6 feet tall and slim, point him in my direction. I need a doormat to rest my feet on.[sm=mrpuffy.gif]

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