Subspace…or not? (Full Version)

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Bearlee -> Subspace…or not? (12/23/2006 3:40:10 PM)

Focus50 and mnottertail said some things in another post regarding subspace.  I’d really like to hear more thoughts on this.
 
The deal is, when I came to discover BDSM, I sort of fell into the hands of some very experienced people…most of whom remain close friends.  Most who I’ve played with, I am not sexual with…though there is an exchange of energy; if only for that play time.  Still…I feel it.
 
When I’ve been involved in a BDSM relationship that was more intimate, of course, sex was included.  Of course the connection is exponentially deeper when in a relationship…and so subspace was easier.
 
I remember once, He asked if I was ready to try needles.  I was and He began.  I remember three going in when he asked me if I was ready to have one through my nipple.  ACK…no way!!!  But…I looked down to see six or eight or more needles down and around each breast!  WOW…I’d been in off in subspace and didn’t even remember what he was doing till he pulled me back.  And I loved it.
 
Sometimes, I have the feeling one Dom in particular who I’ve played with doesn’t LET me go to subspace.  His warm-ups are quite short; his whip bites hard…hell HE bites hard!  I seldom play with him anymore.
 
Another I play with from time to time sometimes gives me a lovely warm-up and plays gently harder and harder until his whip is leaving bloody welts on my back or butt.  Often times I just drift off…sometimes I cry my heart out.
 
 I don’t know what makes the difference really.  I have no idea how to make pain sexual, but wonder how to learn. (submission makes me wet, though; go figure).  Why is it some Dominants enjoy taking a girl to subspace and others seem bound and determined to prevent it?  (and I’m not talking punishment scenes here; it’s all play).
 
Thoughs?
beverly



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Subspace…or not? (12/23/2006 4:08:25 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bearlee
I don’t know what makes the difference really.  I have no idea how to make pain sexual, but wonder how to learn. (submission makes me wet, though; go figure).  Why is it some Dominants enjoy taking a girl to subspace and others seem bound and determined to prevent it?  (and I’m not talking punishment scenes here; it’s all play).

Thoughs?
beverly


Well you said you THINK the other guy doesn't want you to get into subspace- perhaps it's just simply that he's used to playing with other people who have a different way of things and hasn't realized that his method isn't working in a good way for you?  Perhaps he's just impatient and doesn't have a slow style?

I would question why this didn't come out before or after the scene you did have together?  Neither of you talked about what you liked or didn't like?  What you wanted more or less of?  He might think it was a perfect scene and went exactly where he wanted and assumes you think the same.

However, there are many tops who don't want the other person to go to subspace- partly because they want the reactions that they don't get if the other person is like a zombie, and partly because it keeps them more in sadistic control of the situation, and maybe just because it gets them off to do it- knowing that you're going into the headspace THEY want you in, not what YOU want you in.

Some sadists like physical pain, some like emotional or mental pain.

What matters is making sure before and after the scene that everyone is on the same page and ending up with an experience they will remember fondly.  And that is everyone's responsibility.



Lashra -> RE: Subspace…or not? (12/23/2006 4:59:28 PM)

I personally enjoy taking my sub into deep subspace. I feed off of it you see and it gives me a deep pleasure knowing that I can put him there.

Those Dom's who don't allow it, perhaps its part of their sadism? I really don't know. I've heard some say subs/slaves shouldn't recieve pleasure (most consider subspace a pleasure) only the Dom. To each her/his own.

I happily send my sub there.

~Lashra



julietsierra -> RE: Subspace…or not? (12/23/2006 5:08:03 PM)

I'm in the short, hard warm-up camp. He rarely allows me to get to subspace either. I used to wonder why...and then one day he did, and I realized that I liked being aware of each and every strike, each and every movement he made.

When I asked him about it, he said that when I'm in subspace, I'm "gone" and since he wasn't there to play with himself, he just keeps on making me take more while keeping me on the edge of that far-off place. He likes my reactions.

And yes, LA got it right. He's both an emotional AND physical sadist. He loves loves loves to see me struggling to keep up. I love the struggle. I love the pain. I love what it does for the both of us.

As far as how to make pain sexual, I have no idea. Perhaps more than anything, it's the person you're with, cause I certainly wouldn't be comfortable or as thrilled doing this style of play with someone I didn't have a close and intimate relationship with.

That's the best I can come up with.

juliet



akbarbarian -> RE: Subspace…or not? (12/23/2006 5:17:59 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bearlee
Why is it some Dominants enjoy taking a girl to subspace and others seem bound and determined to prevent it?  (and I’m not talking punishment scenes here; it’s all play).

I have my doubts all of the dominants really know exactly what space you are in at all times, and what it does to you.  I have a feeling though, that there is some element of "I want to do x to you but only if it's my idea".  Think the reverse of submissive thinking "I enjoy it because it's your idea".  The ideal would be that simply because it's his idea, you'd get a kick out of it and that would be enough reason.  Then, you might get a taste of both types.  After the Dom who starts out too fast for you gets a taste of you yielding to it and wanting more, I'd wager he'd move on to other styles of impact play.  He might be simply looking for that initial yielding, like the teeth at the back of a feline's throat before he eases his grip.  Go limp and coo for him if you want to find out.  If you have it in you.



Bearlee -> RE: Subspace…or not? (12/23/2006 5:44:13 PM)

 
quote:

ORIGINAL: akbarbarian

... Go limp and coo for him if you want to find out.  If you have it in you.



Now, THAT's funny!  ROFLMAO



ownedgirlie -> RE: Subspace…or not? (12/23/2006 11:31:28 PM)

He loves when I go to subspace and pushes me further and further into it when I go.  And it's like I ride his voice into the depths of myself, it is really amazing.  One thing he likes to do is, once I am soaring, he will start having me talk about what I'm feeling.  I'm not always understandable but he is teaching me, and some of the sentiments that come out of me are extremely enjoyable to him. The absolute core, inner depths of me are splayed open in these revelations and he finds it most endearing.  I rarely remember what I've shared once I'm back on the ground, but he is usually quite happy about it all.



ExSteelAgain -> RE: Subspace…or not? (12/24/2006 3:15:08 AM)

Interesting to see what others do about subspace. I enjoy putting her there sometimes, other times, I want her aware. If I want to tease, humiliate, hurt or whatever, I need her feeling and responding.

Of course there is always the changed state after she has spaced and I consider that sometimes. As she recovers she may be much more sexual and submissive to other things than she was before we started.

Another factor is that I know of her desire to space and can use that as part of the motivation for the entire scene. Maybe I will combine hard sexual play with things that push her a bit physically such as a taste of the cane. She will endure much because she knows if she behaves, the beautiful flogging and spacing will follow.  So I leave that as the carrot and when I’ve done all I want with her, it may be time to space her.

I don’t mean to make it sound as if spacing her is a chore because I do enjoy that stage, too. It is powerful to watch her react to the pain, fighting to stay there, until she is totally fucked up singing songs she hasn’t heard since childhood.  But I, also, know she will be different, to say the least, afterwards and I will have to watch her carefully and comfort.



eyesopened -> RE: Subspace…or not? (12/24/2006 3:16:54 AM)

i have never experienced sub-space in my life.  i have been told it's not just the realm of the masochist but it seems more often than not to be tied into pain.  i have even wondered if i have a much higher pain threshold so that sub-space would be nearly impossible without physical damage.  i can't remember ever getting any physical pleasure from pain, although i do enjoy impact toys to one degree or another depending on the circumstance at the time.  i don't know what's wrong with me.

Every time there is a sub-space discussion i am hugely interested because it's something that is so completely foreign to me yet something that makes me feel like a freak that i don't know what it is.  It's almost like saying i've never tasted ice cream.



ExSteelAgain -> RE: Subspace…or not? (12/24/2006 3:23:48 AM)

EyesO, I would never be so foolish as to say I could space any sub. I'm not sure why some don't go over the edge. They seem to enjoy the play, but for whatever reason, don't space. Of course, there is also the argument that the right pairing of players will make it happen where it has never occurred before.



MaamJay -> RE: Subspace…or not? (12/24/2006 3:30:49 AM)

As a Dominant I love to see a sub I am playing with go into space, makes Me feel very satisfied and I love their gooey reactions. I also enjoy bringing them back slowly and that wonderful feeling of connection that W/we share at that time.
As a sub i love going into space at Master's hands ... He is now used to the giggle stage i go through on the way in, though He found it a bit disconcerting at first. There have been times when i have been so deep that i have simply ended up on the floor unable to even work out how to get up or walk, i call that "deep space 9" (OK so i am a trekkie!). Other times it's not so deep but i still enjoy it and Master enjoys watching me there. He calls me His "goo girl". It's often then when W/we share a "zipper moment" ... early in O/our relationship i expressed the wish that He had a zipper in His chest so that i could open it up and just crawl right in! It's a measure of how deeply i feel the connection at that time. He was a bit horrified when i first said it ... OK so it does sound rather ghoulish i guess, but now He understands what i mean. And like the OP, when Master first did needle play with me, i was already spacey from the light bondage and preparation so that the actual needles seemed like an anticlimax ... i didn't feel a damn thing! And a couple of times i have cried ... so have some of My boys ... it seems to be all part of the deep emotions that are released during play.
Like LA I think you need to tell the "quick Dom" how things went for you ... that may have been His intention, it may not. Communication is always important. I am always very grateful for any feedback from boys I have played with. For eg, I have found some subs like steady rhythmic flogging or paddling  ... others are like me in that they enjoy a few strokes and then the soothing brush of fingertips ... now I don't assume, I ask!
Regards
Maam Jay aka violet[A]



RedSavageSlave -> RE: Subspace…or not? (12/24/2006 3:55:59 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bearlee

Sometimes, I have the feeling one Dom in particular who I’ve played with doesn’t LET me go to subspace.  His warm-ups are quite short; his whip bites hard…hell HE bites hard!  I seldom play with him anymore.
 


The first so called dom I was in a relationship with who claimed to have 12 yrs in the lifestyle with references "rolls eyes"..(yes young stupid and gullible I was) had this idea that subspace was someplace the sub took herself to mentally (through her own power of suggestion) and did not understand his role in the endorphin play and such.

I never understood that warm ups, build ups, environment, and other factors had some play in getting me there. He also was not a very heavy player (thank goodness for me) which was not a bad thing..however, my point is this..The first time I played with a Top who KNEW all these things..I ended up with a progressively intensive spanking that lasted a little over 2 hours straight and I didnt come down from that high for 2 days. My ass was hamburger and I LOVED it!

The dom I was living with just really didnt understand the dynamics involved and when he had to watch me "in subspace with a hamburger ass" walking around with a constant smile on my face that he had never seen before..well..He most definitely was upset at the situation.

Sometimes its not about them not wanting to take you there..sometimes its just that they dont understand HOW to get you there.



Bearlee -> RE: Subspace…or not? (12/24/2006 8:01:27 AM)

Wow…what great replies; thank you all.
 
For me, not having a Dom of my own…my play with these very experienced friends of mine…that they play with me at all, I consider a gift.  Sure, they like me and all…but beating a person is work!
 
Often times our play is just sort of ‘cursory’ if that makes sense.  I generally enjoy it, he seems to as well; but nothing is negotiated; there is no planning a scene…it’s just a beating.  And 99% of the time there is no subspace.  ‘Course, there is no serious cuddling and no sex afterwards, either. 
 
It’s just the kind of play where I might learn about a new toy or a new activity (or he does).  Quite frankly, sometimes it’s like I’m his warm-up girl!  LOL   Hey, we’re pals…I don’t like to play with strangers so I appreciate their time with me.  I get to do some edgy stuff with a person I trust explicitly.  It’s all good. 
 
And I’m sure it would be better if I were actually in a loving relationship.  Till then…<shrugs>
beverly



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Subspace…or not? (12/24/2006 8:14:15 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: eyesopened
Every time there is a sub-space discussion i am hugely interested because it's something that is so completely foreign to me yet something that makes me feel like a freak that i don't know what it is.  It's almost like saying i've never tasted ice cream.

That's somewhat how I feel in discussions of masochism, or multiple orgasms.

This is why I try and put a caveat in all of the subspace discussions that it's NOT the be all and end all, that it's perfectly normal to NOT experience it on a regular basis and that it's far more important to have security and long term stability within a relationship than a few fancy hot nights of alternate states of consciousness.

Because it really can sound like that to an outsider- as if everyone's gone to this great fair and you're left out in the cold.  Trust me, if you're happy and secure, you're already way ahead of the game and not missing anything much.



whisperedsighs -> RE: Subspace…or not? (12/24/2006 9:23:19 AM)

For some sadists, it is not about you floating off into subspace, it is about you enduring the pain and being completely present in it.



Standfast -> RE: Subspace…or not? (12/27/2006 7:42:41 AM)

Whisperedsighs said:

For some sadists, it is not about you floating off into subspace, it is about you enduring the pain and being completely present in it.

Exactly. It's not that I don't allow subspace (I hardly think it is something that can be completely prevented), but I usually prefer to keep my partner on my wavelength as much as possible, and, as in most things, it's my job and my pleasure to control things so that I get what I like. Rhythm is important here.




gypsygrl -> RE: Subspace…or not? (12/27/2006 9:53:19 AM)

I often feel similarily, eyesopened.  I don't know if I've ever been in something along the lines of subspace as a result of a bd/sm scene that includes pain.  I can zone out quite easily, and in response to the most mundane of stimuli that have nothing to do with bd/sm, but pain isn't the sort of thing that causes that sort of change in awareness.  I really don't know what to make of it all.  Pain hurts, and I'm fine with that...the pain is an end in itself, and not a means to achieve altered consciousness.  If anything, it brings me into an awareness of the present that few other things do.  



Sunshine119 -> RE: Subspace…or not? (12/27/2006 2:44:22 PM)

I can easily zone out or enter altered consciousness states on my own.  I have never entered what I have heard of as "subspace".  When I look at my own behavior in our play, I wonder if I don't make a conscious decision to stick around.  I love the feelings, the smells, every stroke. 

Sunshine



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