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can blood thinner explode stomach ulcers - 12/26/2006 10:41:22 AM   
defiantbadgirl


Posts: 2988
Joined: 11/14/2005
Status: offline 		This isn't a bdsm question, but it is health related. A little over a year ago, my grandmother who had stomach ulcers broke her hip. The hospital refused to do surgery until her blood levels were perfect. Meanwhile, since she was to be given general anisthesia, every day they put off her surgery she went without food. I thought people with ulcers weren't supposed to go without food for days. She made it through the surgery just fine and was awake, talking, and eating. Then they gave her blood thinner. All of a sudden her stomach ulcers exploded and she bled to death from the inside. Can blood thinner cause ulcers to explode?
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RE: can blood thinner explode stomach ulcers - 12/26/2006 11:28:05 AM   
onestandingstill


Posts: 1335
Joined: 8/3/2006
Status: offline 		I'm venturing a guess as I'm nort in the medical field, but have spent most ofd my life around people who are and caring for sick people.
I would think her ulcers would have already been bleeding from the surgery.
Maybe the thinners dissolved a clot that had formed when they cauterized it closed and made her bleed heavier in that area, but I doubt it would make skin inside you or outside you rupture just from thinning your blood.

God rest her soul and bless your Grandmothers heart.
I'm sorry for your loss.
I hope you find the answers you seek.
suzanne

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RE: can blood thinner explode stomach ulcers - 12/26/2006 11:51:42 AM   
LadyEllen


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Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		What an awful thing to have happened.

I'm not in the medical field either (some members are though, so hopefully they might show up later), but I do take naprosyn, a Non Steroidal Anti Inflammatory Drug (NSAID) for arthritis. NSAIDs carry a high risk of stomach ulcers, but they also thin the blood - if I cut myself, its messy! Given those two side effects, and on my limited knowledge of course, I'd say that together they would rule out the use of NSAIDs entirely, as they could be lethal. So, the presence of ulcers would surely be a contraindication to the use of thinning agents in the blood, if the two together could result in such a catastrophe.

At the same time though, I cant believe a hospital and competent doctor would not have taken her overall condition into account, and hope (if thats the right word) that something else totally unforeseeable might have brought on this tragedy.

E

< Message edited by LadyEllen -- 12/26/2006 11:55:14 AM >

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RE: can blood thinner explode stomach ulcers - 12/26/2006 1:32:22 PM   
defiantbadgirl


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Status: offline 		Her ulcers exploding was definitely what killed her. When the first one exploded, she screamed and they went in and cauterized it. She lost so much blood that her kidneys shut down. The next day, her kidney function was returning. Then the second one blew out and she screamed, just like the first time. At that point, the doctor said she wouldn't survive another surgery. I don't think the second hole was as large though because she didn't die until the next day, even though she didn't receive another blood transfusion. It just seems strange that she was fine until given the blood thinner.

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RE: can blood thinner explode stomach ulcers - 12/26/2006 2:17:31 PM   
CandleInTheWind


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quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

Her ulcers exploding was definitely what killed her. When the first one exploded, she screamed and they went in and cauterized it. She lost so much blood that her kidneys shut down. The next day, her kidney function was returning. Then the second one blew out and she screamed, just like the first time. At that point, the doctor said she wouldn't survive another surgery. I don't think the second hole was as large though because she didn't die until the next day, even though she didn't receive another blood transfusion. It just seems strange that she was fine until given the blood thinner.


Ulcers dont explode...what an ulcer is is similar to an abrasion or as one may think  think of what happens when you spill a caustic substance on anything it burns a hole so to speak...it takes a long time for an ulcer to go from beginning into an actual abscess...that is what happens an opening ointot he abdominal cavity...

Okay lest look at the picture...it has been my experience as an RN on a telemetry unit for those without the know that is a unit where patients that are just out of the ICU or CCU go to  or those that have just straight cardiac irregularities but do not require constant 1 on 1 care.   when waiting for patients who are various anti coagulants or"blood thinners"  such as aspirin, warfarin, coumadin, procrit heparin etc...well while waiting for the blood levels to get closest to normal ordinarily we are ordered by the good doctors to give the patients preventative anti ulcer meds...it can be either oral or via IV...the IV med names  excape me at the pressent time...but well I have been on that end of the scapal a few times...and as fristrating it may seem to be...it is far safer to wait for surgery for nonemergent surgery until the body naturally recovers from  anticoagulant regime...than to just get a shot of vit K...(an immediate coagulant that counters many of the anti coagulants)  a sudden change can cause an actual clot formation. and for those in the know a clot is a horrible thing....it can cause a stroke. a heart attack and even loss of limb. if it goes to the lung it can cause major breathing issues.

ANd now back to dear old Ganny...what happened to here?  I do not know...It is a very sad and unfortunately common thing that little old ladies that break their hips quickly die.... When I worked out at a local hospiatl I actually did a self studdy and the survival rate for a 6 month period for women over 60 that broke their hips wasnt very good.   If they did well with the surgery  then they had months of recovery..and frequently had pnuemonia issues,  if they managed to get out of the 6 month post fracture period without having a major illness they usually did very well..but that 6 month period was vital...alot of that has to do with the reason for the fracture...since you ganny was on anticoagulents to begin with she evidently had some kind of issues to begin with...and well sometimes those issue coupled with surgery are just too much on the body for it to handle..

Im sad to hear that granny didnt even have a chance to get on with things after cracking her hip...and i wish you well with your loss bt i figured i would through a bit of knowledge at you and yes i am aware that sometimes a lottle bit of knowledge is a bad thing...if you have any other questions...just let me know and i will be glad to answer any other questions you may have

little red

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RE: can blood thinner explode stomach ulcers - 12/26/2006 2:24:32 PM   
ThinkingKitten


Posts: 447
Joined: 6/15/2006
From: Ontari-ari-o
Status: offline 		Without all the information you really can't second guess the doctor's handling of your grandmother's condition. And even with all the information, and an MD degree, with subsequent board qualification in gastroenterology, orthopaedics, haematology and so on, you'll still get differences of opinion (just not as many!) Question is, why did they delay her surgery? You said "until her blood levels were normal". What blood levels? Her hemoglobin (the part of the red blood cell that carries oxygen around the body)? If her ulcers were bleeding, then she was probably anemic (insufficient hemoglobin) to start off with, and so she was really just a ticking time bomb waiting to go off.
 
If she went without food for a day or two, then they probably gave her drugs to suppress acid production in her stomach (the acid can exacerbate the ulcers). Immobile patients are prone to forming blood clots, and even though in most places they try to get them up and moving as fast as possible after surgery, there's only so much they can do. One way to avoid the formation of clots (which can travel to the heart, lungs and brain - and kill you in a few minutes flat) is to administer drugs which prevent the formation of clots (so called "blood thinners"). It sounds as though one of your grandmother's ulcers perforated (ate right through to the outside of the stomach, which is a medical emergency, and indeed you can bleed very badly from such a thing). The docs may not have anticipated a perforation, but that combined with the presence of anti-clotting agents made the bleeding worse. They walked a fine line I daresay, between the need to fix her hip fracture, get her moving and stop clots, but not cause anything else.
 
I'm sorry for your loss.


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RE: can blood thinner explode stomach ulcers - 12/28/2006 5:14:42 AM   
SweetBobbie


Posts: 65
Joined: 10/21/2006
Status: offline 		First, please accept my condolences for your loss!
Second,i am a physician and from your description it sounds like your grandmother and her doctors were caught between a rock and a hard place.  i cannot and would not presume to question the judgement of her physicians without a complete medical record to review for there is much that i do not know.  Candle is correct in that hip fractures in the elderly can frequently result in death from the complications of surgery and prolonged immobility.  Chief among these is the formation of blood clots in the large veins of the legs and showers of these clots going to the lungs (pulmonary emboli).  They are so common following hip fracture that the use of "blood thinners" usually heparin early on is considered a standard of care.  Unfortunately it sounds like your grandmother's ulcers were at least slowly bleeding before she broke her hip as that would likely explain what sounds like anemia (low blood count) requiring a delay in her surgery.  i would suspect that her doctors would also have put her on one of several medications designed to treat ulcers and prevent bleeding from them.  Sadly neither the medications nor the blood thinners work perfectly.  Also even in the absence of blood thinners or ulcers the simple stress of major injury and surgery can cause the formation of ulcers which can then cause severe bleeding.

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RE: can blood thinner explode stomach ulcers - 12/29/2006 5:30:51 PM   
sweetnurseBBW


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Joined: 1/26/2006
From: North Carolina
Status: offline 		Well ulcers do not explode.When the hematocrit and hemoglobin drop in cases where someone has had major surgery as in this one. Blood loss during hip surgery and this is a common complication in the elderly. Eating has nothing to do with ulcers. Being on meds to control acid production and coat the stomach are what keep them in check. When someone has a history of a bleeding disorder after major surgery where the blood counts drop this happens alot.

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RE: can blood thinner explode stomach ulcers - 12/29/2006 6:18:20 PM   
Noah


Posts: 1660
Joined: 7/5/2005
Status: offline 		I'm very sorry to hear about your loss.

Any medical advice received from strangers at some kink website can cause your ulcers to explode.


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RE: can blood thinner explode stomach ulcers - 12/30/2006 4:18:38 PM   
RUpainsmith


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Joined: 11/13/2006
Status: offline 		Well put.  You're better off searching on medical sites or if they have blogs of that sort, or contacting multiple doctors for opinions at this point.  I'm sorry for your loss, but hope finding the answers you are looking for puts you more at ease than otherwise.

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RE: can blood thinner explode stomach ulcers - 12/30/2006 5:25:26 PM   
sweetnurseBBW


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Joined: 1/26/2006
From: North Carolina
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RUpainsmith

Well put.  You're better off searching on medical sites or if they have blogs of that sort, or contacting multiple doctors for opinions at this point.  I'm sorry for your loss, but hope finding the answers you are looking for puts you more at ease than otherwise.



Internet medical sites you have to take with a grain of salt. Better speak the doctor that took care of your grandmother. Go to the source because as you see everyone has an opinion whether it be sarcastic or not. We were not there or involved in her care so all we can offer is opinions.  Sorry for your loss.

< Message edited by sweetnurseBBW -- 12/30/2006 5:28:10 PM >

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