About puntuation

About puntuation (Full Version)

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MasDom -> About puntuation (12/31/2006 1:35:14 AM)
OK so i,m going back to the basics on punctuation, due to the fact all that heavy drinking has erased a few things I needed. But tell me if this little learning session seems odd to you... NOTE: The semi-colon remains between the two clauses, even when the conjunctive adverb is moved. e.g., Ernest Hemingway was a master of style; opinions about his work, however, vary widely. Ernest Hemingway was a master of style; opinions about his work vary widely, however. So why is it wrong if I write it like this? Ernest Hemingway was a master of style. However opinions about his work widely differ. (I feel stupid) -smiles-

seeksfemslave -> RE: About puntuation (12/31/2006 2:22:16 AM)
Which example is wrong ? I dont like the comma near to however.

Lordandmaster -> RE: About puntuation (12/31/2006 3:22:48 AM)
Except for the fact that you need a comma after "however" in the second sentence (to indicate that the adverb "however" modifies the entire phrase "opinions about his work widely differ"), what you wrote is fine. Some people claim that you can't begin a sentence with "however," but that rule makes no sense. quote: ORIGINAL: MasDom So why is it wrong if I write it like this? Ernest Hemingway was a master of style. However opinions about his work widely differ.

mgdartist -> RE: About puntuation (12/31/2006 4:54:11 AM)
your fist step in learning better... "puntuation"(sp) seems to me might be best served learning to spell it: "punctuation" just sayin'

farmbound1 -> RE: About puntuation (12/31/2006 6:55:38 AM)
The correct wording would be as follows: Ernest Hemingway was a master of style; however, opinions about his work vary widely. The way you wrote it (see below), you have a sentence and a sentence fragment unless you take the word "however" out of your second statement. The reasoning is that the word "however" does not modify any of the words in the second statement and does not connect anything together, so it is completely superfluous. Also, I believe it is more correct to say "differ widely" than "widely differ". imho, will So why is it wrong if I write it like this? Ernest Hemingway was a master of style. However opinions about his work widely differ.

bandit25 -> RE: About puntuation (12/31/2006 7:00:50 AM)
I guess what I don't understand is why you hit the enter key after every period. Or, perhaps, it's when you've finished (or mostly finished) a thought. It makes your posts hard to read. Well, not hard to read exactly, but I tend to skim them since they seem so damned long. I just read another post of yours...it seems you just hit the enter key when the mood strikes you. I'm just wondering why. Jeez, this is my third edit...this (the above) is a question for the OP.

bandit25 -> RE: About puntuation (12/31/2006 7:05:58 AM)
Did you mean "first"?

seeksfemslave -> RE: About puntuation (12/31/2006 7:48:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: farmbound1 The correct wording would be as follows: Ernest Hemingway was a master of style; however, opinions about his work vary widely. The way you wrote it (see below), you have a sentence and a sentence fragment unless you take the word "however" out of your second statement. The reasoning is that the word "however" does not modify any of the words in the second statement and does not connect anything together, so it is completely superfluous. Also, I believe it is more correct to say "differ widely" than "widely differ". imho, will If had to try to remember such detail when writing a post I would most likely forget what it was I was trying to post about. Some might think that a good thing however. However I think they would be wrong.. However that may be !

Stephann -> RE: About puntuation (12/31/2006 8:23:04 AM)
Having taught English for a few years, I'll see what I can do. About puntuation Regarding Punctuation OK so i,m going back to the basics on punctuation, due to the fact all that heavy drinking has erased a few things I needed. OK, so I'm going back to the basics on punctuation due to the fact that all of my heavy drinking has erased a few brain cells. But tell me if this little learning session seems odd to you... But, please tell me if this little learning session seems odd to you. NOTE: The semi-colon remains between the two clauses, even when the conjunctive adverb is moved. e.g., Ernest Hemingway was a master of style; opinions about his work, however, vary widely. The conjunctive adverb is however... Ernest Hemingway was a master of style; opinions about his work vary widely, however. The conjunctive adverb moves to a less desirable location, though the semicolon is still acceptable. So why is it wrong if I write it like this? So, why is it wrong if I write the sentance like this? Ernest Hemingway was a master of style. However opinions about his work widely differ. The bigger mistake is using two simple sentences relating to the same subject. If you read the two sentences out loud, it sounds like a fourth grade book report. A common wouldn't be considered strong enough (though it is acceptable) to link two independent full clauses i.e. a clause with both a subject, verb, and direct object. The semicolon simply functions as a 'super comma.' The lesser mistake is that "However" would require a comma after it, in any case. Hope this helps. Stephan

cuddleheart50 -> RE: About puntuation (12/31/2006 9:31:30 AM)
Hugs back to ya sweetie. [;)]

OedipusRexIt -> RE: About puntuation (12/31/2006 9:48:28 AM)
I just love it when someone lectures on the right way to do anything. I get an even bigger kick out of grammer police who do so under a topic heading that is mis-spelled. Don't we feel silly now....

adaddysgirl -> RE: About puntuation (12/31/2006 10:01:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: OedipusRexIt I just love it when someone lectures on the right way to do anything. Seems that's what the OP was asking for, no? I get an even bigger kick out of grammer police who do so under a topic heading that is mis-spelled. i kinda get a kick out of the grammer police. Is this a new branch of security? lol Don't we feel silly now.... Feel silly....on here??? That would take an act of God [:D] DG

justheather -> RE: About puntuation (12/31/2006 11:19:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: OedipusRexIt I just love it when someone lectures... Yeah, I think I have a little bit of a "lecture fetish" myself. Hot, isnt it?

MmakeMme -> RE: About puntuation (12/31/2006 11:53:45 AM)
As long as it's decipherable, wtf cares? I have an MA in English, a BA in journalism, and what I learned from all those years (and all that money) was how to avoid looking like a pompous ass when I write in informally. In formal writing (such as in professional / paid pieces) it is only proper that one revert to all the vague and concrete pomposity one can muster.

Lordandmaster -> RE: About puntuation (12/31/2006 12:40:47 PM)
That's wrong. Follow your logic through: if "however" somehow turns the second sentence into a fragment, then it can't be in an independent clause after a semicolon either. So that can't be the reason. The only reason why some people would object to what he wrote has to do with the vestigial rule that sentences cannot begin with the word "however." But as I said, I don't think that rule makes any sense and plenty of brilliant and knowledgeable writers violate it all the time. quote: ORIGINAL: farmbound1 The correct wording would be as follows: Ernest Hemingway was a master of style; however, opinions about his work vary widely. The way you wrote it (see below), you have a sentence and a sentence fragment unless you take the word "however" out of your second statement. The reasoning is that the word "however" does not modify any of the words in the second statement and does not connect anything together, so it is completely superfluous.

Emperor1956 -> RE: About puntuation (12/31/2006 12:58:44 PM)
LaM: I believe the "rule" against beginning a sentence with "however" generally stems from the venerable Wm. Strunk, and is perpetuated by E.B. White in his famous revision of "Elements of Style". In fact, Strunk and White do not apply a a blanket condemnation of the practice, but rather make a distinction in usage: quote: However. In the meaning nevertheless, not to come first in its sentence or clause. [incorrect]: The roads were almost impassable. However, we at last succeeded in reaching camp. [correct]: The roads were almost impassable. At last, however, we succeeded in reaching camp. When however comes first, it means in whatever way or to whatever extent. However you advise him, he will probably do as he thinks best. However discouraging the prospect, he never lost heart. Note that no comma follows the preferred usage. You are correct; many fine writers break this rule. I learned (from Jacques Barzun, to drop an esoteric name that few, if any, will recognize) that "however", inlaid into a sentence, is preferred. It is more elegant and better directs the reader to the writer's point, which is "item a may be true, however I'll now tell you about item b". However you use the phrase, please make sure never to say "however, but" which all agree is redundant. I like new writing, however I am partial to the golden oldies of Fowler, Strunk and White. E.

Lordandmaster -> RE: About puntuation (12/31/2006 7:55:20 PM)
No, that's not right either. If you're using "however" to mean "nevertheless," you HAVE to have the comma, because it modifies the entire following phrase. In the examples that you have, there's no comma after "however" because it's being used in the sense of "in whatever manner." Anyway, the reason why it's silly to object to starting a sentence with "however" (in the sense of "nevertheless") is that there wouldn't be any controversy if you just set off "however" somewhere within the concessive clause. (A "concessive" is something like "but," "still," "nevertheless," etc.) For example: This conversation is technical. However, some people may find it interesting. That's supposed to be incorrect according to the silly rule I'm talking about. But what about: This conversation is technical. Some people may find it interesting, however. No one would object to that. So what earthly difference does it make whether "however" is set off at the beginning of the clause or someplace within it? Makes no sense to me; it sounds like one of those silly Victorian rules that Oxonians invented because they didn't have anything better to do with their time. quote: ORIGINAL: Emperor1956 Note that no comma follows the preferred usage.

bandit25 -> RE: About puntuation (1/1/2007 2:49:16 AM)
Thanks LaM...concessive is a new one on me. Your reasoning is sound (what else is new). Like Emperor, I tend toward Strunk, but this makes sense.

MiLady2005a -> RE: About puntuation (1/1/2007 3:11:29 AM)
I had an English professor tell me once that I wrote too "professionally" for his taste. He graded me tough on all assignments, then gave me an "A" in the course. lol I have no problem as long as most words are at least close to being spelled correctly and I can decipher the intent of the author. It would help a few people get their point across if they used spellcheck. Im not one to be obcessive over proper punctuation for internet conversations and forums. Say what you have to say and be done. quote: ORIGINAL: MmakeMme As long as it's decipherable, wtf cares? I have an MA in English, a BA in journalism, and what I learned from all those years (and all that money) was how to avoid looking like a pompous ass when I write in informally. In formal writing (such as in professional / paid pieces) it is only proper that one revert to all the vague and concrete pomposity one can muster.

bandit25 -> RE: About puntuation (1/1/2007 3:29:51 AM)
Well, I don't think that proper spelling is obsessive, but as long as I can understand the content and all of the words aren't misspelled, then it's no big.

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