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RE: Starbucks and the war. - 2/27/2005 2:19:19 PM

Hickory

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I believe that Iraq was "partitioned" by the Allies (US, GB, France, et al) from part of what had been the Ottoman Empire, after the Great War (1918). As with most external political decisions, the needs and regional dynamics of the area were not taken into much consideration. The traditional "kurdistan" region was split among Iraq and Turkey, which had fought on the "good guys" side in the war.

Bosnia is another excellent example of this sort of meddling, as was the state of Israel, created by an embarrassed Allied Command from the British "protectorate" of Palestine.

It has been thus since the dawn of time.

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RE: Starbucks and the war. - 2/27/2005 2:24:01 PM

Sissyslave71

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Personally...

That photo of Saddam Husssein shaking hands with Donald Rumpsmell spoke
to me in volumes at what a farce this "war" in Iraq is.

Its all about $$$$$$ .

Thats all it is.

Saddam was never a threat to the United states. Period.

Just a fly in the ointment to certain fatcats.

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RE: Starbucks and the war. - 2/27/2005 3:27:58 PM

NoPinkBalloons

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quote:

ORIGINAL: 1RottenJohnny

What IS the history of Iraq?

I'm pretty sure you don't expect me to write several volumes of history in a post. Iraq (Mesopotamia) has a rich and varied history that's worth learning about. Your local library probably has lots of information. Even limiting your research to the "modern" history of Iraq (since Independence in 1932) would likely be an eye opener.

Specifically of import to the current situation, I think, is an understanding of the 3 major "tribes" and how they have historically interacted (and perhaps why a strong dictator was the most effective way to control these factions). Also, people seem really uninformed about the secular nature of Iraq's government in recent history, confusing it with the religious governments that are common in several other Middle Eastern countries.

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RE: Starbucks and the war. - 2/28/2005 9:55:35 AM

1RottenJohnny

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quote:

I'm pretty sure you don't expect me to write several volumes of history in a post.

I'm trying to gauge your understanding of events that have lead up to the current situation.

quote:

Specifically of import to the current situation, I think, is an understanding of the 3 major "tribes" and how they have historically interacted (and perhaps why a strong dictator was the most effective way to control these factions).

I must admit that I am somewhat amazed that someone who calls herself a pacifist, seems convinced that the INTENT of the U.S. is simply to steal oil and shoot civilians, and appears to think that events like 9/11 are something we should merely "suck up", can turn around and say that a "strong dictator" is any kind of a solution.

quote:

Bottom line: I don't support this "war" or the administration that started it and perpetuates it. I think the things that have been done there in the name of "creating peace" are beyond evil and can't possibly be justified.

Then perhaps it's time for us to agree to disagree. Hopefully when all is said and done there will be some kind of change in the Middle East that will allow us to better get along. I don't ever expect they will agree with us about anything or really even like us but perhaps they'll decide hatred isn't a path worth following.

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RE: Starbucks and the war. - 2/28/2005 12:22:39 PM

TallDarkAndWitty

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NoPinkBalloons
As I said, fighting for peace is like fucking for virginity.

This quote has always bothered me. It just doesn't make sense.

"Fighting for peace is like fucking to prevent being raped." That would make more sense to me. "Fighting to prevent all war since the dawn of man is like fucking for virginity" also makes sense.

Peace is the absence of fighting. Virginity is not the absence of fucking, it is the non-existence of fucking ever.

Taggard

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RE: Starbucks and the war. - 2/28/2005 3:42:14 PM

Sissyslave71

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I always liked..

"You dont fight for peace....you PEACE for peace."

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RE: Starbucks and the war. - 2/28/2005 3:45:22 PM

Sissyslave71

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Perfect way to end wars for good.

Make all those who plan and otherwise start the wars in the first place...fight them themselves...not us "little people".

World peace would be declared in about 2 seconds.

"War is a racket"

General Smedley Butler USMC

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RE: Starbucks and the war. - 2/28/2005 4:25:50 PM

NoPinkBalloons

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quote:

ORIGINAL: 1RottenJohnny

I must admit that I am somewhat amazed that someone who calls herself a pacifist, seems convinced that the INTENT of the U.S. is simply to steal oil and shoot civilians, and appears to think that events like 9/11 are something we should merely "suck up", can turn around and say that a "strong dictator" is any kind of a solution.

Our style of government isn't right for everyone. *shrug* The fact that I wouldn't want to live in that type of situation doesn't mean it's wrong, ya know? I"m not like everyone else, nor do I expect everyone else to be like me, so why would I think that what works for me should work for them?

FWIW, I think what happened on 9/11 was horrible, but I don't believe that causing MORE horror makes it any better. I don't consider that "sucking it up". I consider that being realistic. No matter how many people you (generic you) kill in Iraq, it won't bring back a single person who died on 9/11. It simply perpetuates the problem.

quote:

Then perhaps it's time for us to agree to disagree. Hopefully when all is said and done there will be some kind of change in the Middle East that will allow us to better get along. I don't ever expect they will agree with us about anything or really even like us but perhaps they'll decide hatred isn't a path worth following.

If we try to stop fitting them into boxes that are shaped for us (square pegs in round holes, anyone?), perhaps we might better understand them. Without understanding nothing is going to improve. FWIW, I think that we (generic we) need to learn that hatred isn't a path worth following just as much as they (generic they) do. War feeds on hatred. Until the hating stops, the wars will continue. That's one of the saddest things I can imagine.

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RE: Starbucks and the war. - 2/28/2005 8:23:41 PM

Sissyslave71

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To me..

This says it all...

http://marketingtheworld.com/bush/georgejesussm.jpg

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RE: Starbucks and the war. - 2/28/2005 10:36:26 PM

1RottenJohnny

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sissyslave71

To me..

This says it all...

http://marketingtheworld.com/bush/georgejesussm.jpg

LOL!

You know the most frightening part about a statement like that? I wouldn't doubt for a second that there are those hanging around the White House that feel EXACTLY that way. (shiver)

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