RE: Is this a safe situation? (Full Version)

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juliaoceania -> RE: Is this a safe situation? (1/11/2007 11:05:27 AM)

quote:

I am considering her and things were going well but she refuses to settle for anything less than this fantasy apparently.


In my understanding, which others will disagree with, as they should, the Dom decides what fantasy the submissives is allowed to live out. Now she gets to decide who is going to dominate her, but in my understanding the dom decides also if the submissive is suitable to him. If her kinks and your kinks are not a match then perhaps you shouldn't be considering her? It appears that she has less limits than you do, which could be a huge problem.

quote:

She's never had a strong male figure in her life her family is all women, sister, mother, and aunt are her close family, she has been slutty in the past to gain acceptance of men, I know that's an issue for her.


You may think this is her issue, she may think this is her issue. She maybe a victim of childhood sexual abuse. You do not know.

quote:

Never my intention to cause damage to her, beating her thighs and arms and back isn't going to cause severe organ damage as far as I know.


Have you researched what you are doing to her? Have you sought others that are into edgy sort of play to see how they reduce risks to their "victims"? Punching someone in the back is extremely dangerous in my mind. Even face slapping can cause permanent damage. This is not something I would recommend without learning about it first.

quote:

a few weeks ago someone tried to rob her, and she got into a fistfight with the guy, she had her eye swollen shut, she was bruised all over head to toe, she wants that 24/7 she's telling me, I just don't see how it could be safe or sane, even if it was consensual.



Dismiss this if you like, everyone has different types of relationships, everyone has a different idea of what a "dom" is. You have to ask yourself if you think that it is a domly thing to have someone demand their kink from you. You have to decide what it more important to you, being the lifesupport system for her kink, or having a relationship with a submissive that will meet your needs, and who has needs you are comfortable meeting. It sounds as though her limits are far beyond your comfort zone. It may come down to you feeling as though she is with you to get her kink met. That to me is not submissive, although other people have a different idea of what "submissive" is, and their opinion is as valid as mine. You have to decide what it is that you want from whomever you decide to collar.



MagiksSlave -> RE: Is this a safe situation? (1/11/2007 11:10:19 AM)

Um.. I dont know but I just dont think BDSM is the place to be working out these aparently major issues this girl has. Now I may get flaimed for this but in my opinion I think that any Master that takes her on should make profetional Therapy a mandatory part of them takeing her on. Not only for her sake but for the Doms sake. its really hard to explian away bruises to family friends and coworkers unless of course she wants to be tied up in the house 24/7 as well...

She needs something to wake her up to what reality is if she has said that she will settle for nothing less then her fantasy Im willing to waige money on  it that that doesnt exist. Something like that would turn the Dom into the sub because all they would be doing was catering to the subs wants and needs. I dont see many Masters that would willing take that on.

these where just my thoughts


((gets on her flaim retardent suit))
Magik's slave



solarisDom -> RE: Is this a safe situation? (1/11/2007 11:26:30 AM)

Like I've said, she's my friend at the very least, and I was micromanaging her to get her to express herself, more and more so over the last few weeks. I just don't want to be like "ok have a nice life we want different things" I don't think she'd in any way shape or form be willing to submit to anyone who didn't just treat her like that, The wanting to be property to rape even I understand, but getting the shit beat out of her for no reason at any point in the day, several times a day, all week and year, for the rest of her life, I don't know about...

She wasn't molested as a child, not that she'll admit to me anyway, and she's told me things about herself she's never told anyone before, so if there was more to things I don't know.

I understand the fantasy of wanting to feel worthless even, but to be physically and emotionally tortured like she wants just ... yeah ... I don't like to judge other peoples fantasies too much. but it really caught me as not being BDSM anymore. it can't be safe and I don't think it's sane. After I abused her yesterday to see how she'd react she really ... just sad ... she eventually called for it to end (safewordeded.... lol almost sounds ok.) and I tried to comfort her but she laughed and said that she knew I couldn't act like that 24/7.. and I can't ... I don't see how it's safe... I really don't. Having her call a safeword and keep going? who can do something like that in good concious?

She said to me last night "I don't want someone to just hurt me, I want someone to be so angry with me they can't control it and they just beat the shit out of me".

I apologize for the adding to the story again. I didn't know where the discussion was going or what everyone would be asking.



crouchingtigress -> RE: Is this a safe situation? (1/11/2007 11:29:25 AM)

quote:

the Dom decides what fantasy the submissives is allowed to live out


i have to disagree in this situation Julia, i think you are right in that the kink levels dont match and that this does represent a huge problem, but i think that is a surface problem, that only looks at the D/s as a separate entity from the relationship as a whole....if solarisdom has strong feelings for her as a person, and sees through the behavior to the root cause of the behavior and if he is invested enough to create cathartic change then i think the kink levels are not so much of an issue.
 
those are alot of big ifs....i know.
 
but i will say that i come from experience when i share this perspective having been owned by one that did create the sort of monumental life changing core changes that i am describing by allowing me to act out, yet creating rules and boundaries for that to take place.
 
i wrote what i did because i sense that solarisdom has very deep feelings for her, and may even have what it takes to take her on...and take her in.
 
and i dont think that letting her take the lead in this journey makes solarisdom any less of a dom, i think as long as he is the one setting the rules, and he remains confident that she is going through a deep and transformational process and that he is the one ultimately in charge of that process i think it makes him an incredible Dom actually...
 
again a lot of ifs...i know.
 
 
 



juliaoceania -> RE: Is this a safe situation? (1/11/2007 11:32:46 AM)

quote:

She wasn't molested as a child, not that she'll admit to me anyway, and she's told me things about herself she's never told anyone before, so if there was more to things I don't know.


My point is that you do not KNOW what her "issues" are. I am not a psychiatrist and I do not play one online. If you have pull with her, I would strongly suggest that she seek therapy with someone that can delve into her "issues" because you are not qualified, and she just cannot be objective about herself. None of us are.
quote:

 
I understand the fantasy of wanting to feel worthless even, but to be physically and emotionally tortured like she wants just ... yeah ... I don't like to judge other peoples fantasies too much. but it really caught me as not being BDSM anymore. it can't be safe and I don't think it's sane. After I abused her yesterday to see how she'd react she really ... just sad ... she eventually called for it to end (safewordeded.... lol almost sounds ok.) and I tried to comfort her but she laughed and said that she knew I couldn't act like that 24/7.. and I can't ... I don't see how it's safe... I really don't. Having her call a safeword and keep going? who can do something like that in good concious?



I do not know her, so I am not juding her, but she sounds like a masochist without submissive tendancies. She is pushing YOU to YOUR limits, and ridiculing YOU for not meeting HER expectations... there is NOTHING submissive about this.... that is my opinion anyways.



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Is this a safe situation? (1/11/2007 11:37:10 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
I do not know her, so I am not juding her, but she sounds like a masochist without submissive tendancies. She is pushing YOU to YOUR limits, and ridiculing YOU for not meeting HER expectations... there is NOTHING submissive about this.... that is my opinion anyways.


Not sure about the submissive tendencies thing- maybe maybe not, certainly not in this particular situation.

I do agree she's just using you for attention and reinforcement. 



crouchingtigress -> RE: Is this a safe situation? (1/11/2007 11:38:57 AM)

magikslave, i am a big fan of therapy, i think its great stuff, but i also think we all have the ability to heal ourselves and those we love intuitily....i think we know when some one is doing something harmful to themselves and we know when we are, and we know what we need to do to fix it...
 
therapy is often a lot of talk, and the therapist makes more money the longer you wallow in your stuff....so to me i am always a little wary of the talk it all out apporoach...
 
i learn by action and caring and when those two things are in unison, healing takes great leaps foward...
 
now i am assuming in this situation that this girl needs healing and that she wants it but does not know how to open that door...i could be off on both counts...but  my 15 years in the field makes me think i might not be.



SirDiscipliner69 -> RE: Is this a safe situation? (1/11/2007 11:39:27 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: solarisDom Having her call a safeword and keep going? who can do something like that in good concious?


The only thing I'll ever ask of you
You've got to promise not to stop when I say when
She sang....
 
Everlong
Foo Fighters
Hello
I've waited here for you
Everlong

Tonight
I throw myself into
And out of the red, out of her head she sang

Come down
And waste away with me
Down with me

Slow how
You wanted it to be
I'm over my head, out of her head she sang

And I wonder
When I sing along with you
If everything could ever feel this real forever
If anything could ever be this good again

The only thing I'll ever ask of you
You've got to promise not to stop when I say when
She sang

Breathe out
So I can breathe you in
Hold you in

And now
I know you've always been
Out of your head, out of my head I sang

And I wonder
When I sing along with you
If everything could ever feel this real forever
If anything could ever be this good again

The only thing I'll ever ask of you
You've got to promise not to stop when I say when
She sang

And I wonder
If everything could ever feel this real forever
If anything could ever be this good again

The only thing I'll ever ask of you
You've got to promise not to stop when I say when
She sang



crouchingtigress -> RE: Is this a safe situation? (1/11/2007 11:48:13 AM)

ooops i just read your profile solaris dom and i see you are 19, it thought you were 10 years older from you pic...i am sorry.
 
 i am not being agist here, but i think LA is right you are not the right dom for her....and as you talk more i can see that you are working out so many of these ideas for yourself ...and doing a good job too BTW of really trying to learn understand and be nonjudgemental....
 
but i think this girl is way more then you can, or even want, to take on right now....dont you?



juliaoceania -> RE: Is this a safe situation? (1/11/2007 11:49:19 AM)

Crouchingtigresse,

I so enjoy your touching, heart felt advice, and this thread is no exception. I agree strongly that therapy is overrated, and I know that love can heal many things. This maybe a case in which love can heal someone.

I will say though, I do not think it is anyone else's responsibility to heal us, we can allow them to do so, we can welcome the healing that comes with our intimate relationships, but still, it comes down to no one else can be responsible for it. From the description posted (all we have to go on) she sounds like she is enthralled with her fantasy being lived out more than she is thinking of allowing "healing" for herself. I do not know her I could be completely wrong of course.

This young man is 19, he seems like a very decent sort, and while life experience is over valued in many ways, in some ways I think that life experience is important. I can honestly say that most people would be out of their depth in dealing with one that pushed them beyond their limits. Both dom and sub have them, he can contradict me if I am wrong (I hope he does if i am and have misunderstood his posts) but her masochism is pushing him into dangerous territory that he is not comfortable with, and she cannot live without that... it seems a lot to ask someone with limited experience to handle.



crouchingtigress -> RE: Is this a safe situation? (1/11/2007 11:54:22 AM)

Julia, i totally agree  with everything you said...every wise and thoughtful word.[:)]
 
 



solarisDom -> RE: Is this a safe situation? (1/11/2007 12:08:16 PM)

it's not her wanting to be a masochist physically or emotionally for a limited period of time that bothers me,  it's the extend that she wants to take it, she wants no comfort at all, and I'm 19, she's about to turn 18. (16 is legal in conn). so her knowing beyond a doubt that she wants to be in that situation for the rest of her life I really do doubt.

I'm not trying to work on a relationship with her even at the moment, I'm just trying to help her understand herself, I'm friends with a few subs I've been involved with in the past when it turns out we want different things. Honestly I'm not the most sadistic, but careless beatings with no comfort after is what bothers me, I'd have no problem whipping/cropping/ spanking. pretty much anything short of drawing blood (which she doesn't like to draw blood either so that's fine), or anything that might show for more than a few days, especially that clothing wouldn't cover. but at the end of the day I'd need to make sure she's ok and comfort her some. Maybe indifference shows caring to her? I don't know if that's true, but if it is, is that bad or good or a moot subject.?

I think you're right about the part about not healing herself julia, I don't know though. I'm just not someone who likes to be like "well you're too messed up for any help from me at all". I can't be like that.



crouchingtigress -> RE: Is this a safe situation? (1/11/2007 12:33:37 PM)

quote:

I'm just trying to help her understand herself,

 
i wish you the best of luck with that....but it does not sound like she is all that open to it....
 
quote:

  careless beatings with no comfort after is what bothers me, I'd have no problem whipping/cropping/ spanking. pretty much anything short of drawing blood (which she doesn't like to draw blood either so that's fine), or anything that might show for more than a few days, especially that clothing wouldn't cover. but at the end of the day I'd need to make sure she's ok and comfort her some. Maybe indifference shows caring to her? I don't know if that's true, but if it is, is that bad or good or a moot subject.?



i think as you grow more in the ls you will see that a lot of Doms are rescuers....and there is nothing wrong with having a tender, valiant and protective side...but i would advise you to save that expression of yourself for those who will value it, otherwise you will feel very drained at the end of the day.



Falcon40 -> RE: Is this a safe situation? (1/11/2007 12:34:45 PM)

I would steer clear.  It is potential trouble on any number of levels, and the potential for a sane relationship is essentially zero.

First off, even hard core maso sluts (male or female), do not generally have a low opinion of themselves.  That is red flag #1.  Nor do people who crave humiliation play.  That is a common misconception made mostly by vanilla society.

Second, if you subscribe to the SSC philosphy or even RACK, this fails most tests, not just some.  Obviously not safe - only very physically fit people can take a punch with a naked fist safely, and even then things can go fatally wrong (read up on how Houdini met his end).  Sane - hardly, won't even go there.  Consensual - some people are not able to give informed consent, this is a good example.

Third, you are just setting yourself up for failure, because this person can't be satisfied in any conventional sense, in or out of the lifestyle, or provide much satisfaction to anyone else.

Besides, if you like to punch people, there are lots of gyms in any area that will accomodate you, and may even provide a set of gloves if you do not own any.  Give it a try, you may find that it can be a lot more fun with someone who hits back, even if you end up with a black eye or a busted knuckle now and then, and you get more respect in the bargain win or loose... <chuckle>



mnottertail -> RE: Is this a safe situation? (1/11/2007 12:38:46 PM)

This is too one sided for me.  I will say this however, the mind is virulent in its notions sometimes, and a day or two of a outlandish beating is something the fantasizers get over pretty quickly.

Take a jujutsu course, cause lottsa pain without actual damage.

Sounds like somebody should call in Mr. Compromise (the shit outta this)

Again, haven't heard it thru her eyes.

Ron



solarisDom -> RE: Is this a safe situation? (1/11/2007 12:41:34 PM)

I do like to punch people but it's like, in highschool I was in a fightclub where we'd get drunk a wednesday twice a month and beat eachother silly. That's about the limit of it. I'm a very large man and I dont mean fat, I'm 5'11 and weigh about 270 pounds, I haven't worked out in a few years, but I'm still in relativly good shape.

I'd just like to thank everyone for their input so far and even those that have taken the time to read through all this.



solarisDom -> RE: Is this a safe situation? (1/11/2007 12:57:33 PM)

haha yeah I wish I could see it through her eyes too. I think I've said about everything she said directly so far, I can't read minds though.



MagiksSlave -> RE: Is this a safe situation? (1/11/2007 3:56:45 PM)

Hey julia the comment you made made me think... Currently in Ny I am able to practice as a therapist and very soon I will have my secent degree in psyc so while I may not be the most intelagent person in the world I am a careing one and one that does for the most part know what she is talking about. There is more then talk therapy there are programs and one that comes to mind to me is Dialectical Behavioral Therapy (DBP) Im not about to make diagnoses here but I do know enough about things to know this girl really needs more help then a Dom that isnt at least s Phsycologist could give her. It is unfair for you to have to take on the burdain and unrealistic to think that any one person alone can change her (well only one person really can and thats her) All im saying is that in my opinion  what she is seaking and for the reasons she is seeking it are not healthy and that she really needs someone to care enough to get her help.

again just my opinion

((remains in her flaim retardent outfit))

Magik's conserned slave



MaryT -> RE: Is this a safe situation? (1/11/2007 4:03:14 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: solarisDom

I don't like to judge other peoples fantasies too much. but it really caught me as not being BDSM anymore. it can't be safe and I don't think it's sane. After I abused her yesterday to see how she'd react she really ... just sad ... she eventually called for it to end (safewordeded.... lol almost sounds ok.) and I tried to comfort her but she laughed and said that she knew I couldn't act like that 24/7.. and I can't ... I don't see how it's safe... I really don't. Having her call a safeword and keep going? who can do something like that in good concious?

She said to me last night "I don't want someone to just hurt me, I want someone to be so angry with me they can't control it and they just beat the shit out of me".

I apologize for the adding to the story again. I didn't know where the discussion was going or what everyone would be asking.



Actually, the story seems to have changed, so I'm a little confused.  Previously you wrote:

quote:

I know crying doesnt' mean somethings wrong with most people but she's like a pitbull, I beat her for about 10 minutes just punching her because she said she could handle it, and I'm no weakling, I stopped because I was afriad of doing some real damage.


Now you are saying that she safeworded and then called you a wuss (in not so many words) ... Frankly, she sounds unpredictable at best, untrustworthy for certain, and a certified nutcase at worst.  I would be worried that she just might decide to call 911 next time, and then you'd be screwed.   Safe and sane goes a ways in protecting both parties and, I agree with your conclusion - your situation seems to lack both.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.



solarisDom -> RE: Is this a safe situation? (1/11/2007 4:22:44 PM)

Different points in time MaryT.



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