RE: Needing daily control

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MasterFireMaam -> RE: Needing daily control (1/14/2007 9:10:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: darksdesire I have a strong need to be controlled in small, mundane ways; being told how to dress, perhaps what to eat, tasks to accomplish, and I need this regularly, daily. My Master does not seem to have a need to control me to this degree. We have discussed it many times, and while he is comfortable with me asking him for that control, I feel uneasy doing so. It strikes me as taking control...by asking him to control me, I feel like I am stepping into a dominant position - I am asking him to do something that is about my need as a slave, and not about his need as a Master. If I am asking him to do something to please me (even if it's for his control), and he complies, I worry that the power balance will tilt in a dangerous way. And yet, I need that control regularly in order to feel his power over me. It's a dilema and one I've been trying to work out for some time. How many times a day can I ask, "what should I wear today" or "what should I have for lunch" before it becomes tiresome for him. Not only that, isn't it pretty meaningless if those things arise from my needs as a slave rather than his needs as a Master? I find myself wondering if my position as his slave is to let go of this need for those regular, small acts of control since it is not something that necessarily fills a need for him. I've been trying to work through this for some time, with lots of communication regarding this topic, and still, I am at a loss. I am curious about how others view this; slaves and submissives and dominants alike. You will have to decide which is more important: your desire to be controlled or your fear of being the dominant party. I think what needs to be done is for you to find a way that is rather passive for you to request something and that doesn't take a great deal of time and effort on his part to do. For example, note cards are wonderful things. For you clothing, write out one outfit per card. Each evening, take the cards that represent the available outfits to your Master and ask him to choose one. That's what he says you will wear the next day. For your food, write out your lunch and dinner choices and have him choose. Or, prepare a menu for the week and have him sign off on it. Set up some guidelines such as each meal must be balanced or you can only have one desert a day or something. Master Fire

Xcalbar -> RE: Needing daily control (1/14/2007 9:32:55 AM)
Excellent response.

darksdesire -> RE: Needing daily control (1/14/2007 9:37:18 AM)
MasterFireMaam: Thank you. Those are actually wonderful ideas!

adaddysgirl -> RE: Needing daily control (1/14/2007 3:56:21 PM)
i think micromanagement can mean different things to different people too. i have heard some slaves say: Master, may i get a drink of water? Master, may i go pee? Master, may i turn on the TV? Master, may i get something to eat? Etc, etc, etc. For me, i like management too in many areas, but i can't say it has been as stringent as mentioned above. His choosing clothes, what i ate, bed time, etc were very 'normal' for us and did not seem like a chore. But of course, we had already discussed much of this beforehand....and he decided what he was comfortable with. And of course, he added a few things as we went along. i don't know what 'level' of management you are looking for but maybe if you start with some things then add on as you go along, he can see how comfortable he is with all that and it might not feel so overwhelming or like you are pushing the issue on him. Just a thought [&:] Daddysgirl

rapunzel2 -> RE: Needing daily control (1/15/2007 9:19:05 AM)
I understand this need. My own experience was that I interpreted that kind of control as an expression of his actual interest in me and in being my Master. In retrospect, that's not a fair assumption. Do you suppose this need for control is less about actual control and more about something else? Another need, some validation or reassurance? Not sure if that is helpful but it might be worth thinking about.

Dnomyar -> RE: Needing daily control (1/15/2007 9:46:33 AM)
I agree with domiguy. To me micro management is for control freaks. For me there has to be some indepence in a relationship.

littlesarbonn -> RE: Needing daily control (1/15/2007 11:06:08 AM)
(replied to the last person in thread, not to respond to the last person...) I think there's a lot of dictionary debate occurring here. When I say this, I am referring to the absolutes and extremes that people create when using such definitions. When I hear someone desiring daily control, someone then recycles the statement through the dictionary debate mechanism and immediately begins the argument of "daily control=long term micromanagement that no one would want to participate in because of the amount of work involved". I've been in daily control relationships that DON'T require the dominant to be completely micromanaging everything, having to be omnipresent at all points of the relationship. Daily control, or even total control, can be as simple as having to ask permission to do a whole slough of things, such as going to the bathroom, eating, and sleeping. In such a relationship, a former mistress of mine refused to relinquish her control over me, and demanded that whenever I needed to use the rest room, I had to find her in the house (it was a HUGE house, and it was a house of domination where other women worked and handled sessions) to ask her. If she was conducting a session, she gave me permission to ask one other woman working there she designated as the backup. If both were in sessions, I just had to wait until one of them was out of session before I could ask. I ate when she decided I ate, and of course, I was sexually stimulated ONLY when she desired I be so stimulated. There were many other specific requirements that allowed her to maintain complete control over me, but they never required her to have to spend large amounts of energy making it happen. But there was NEVER a time when I found myself thinking to myself that her control over me was not absolute. Granted, this takes a mindset of a submissive who is not seeking attention. And that's most likely where the problems are coming in. A submissive who craves control AND attention is going to drain a dominant so fast it's unbelievable. I've seen it happen many times before. But for a small subset of us, who live our lives with the sole purpose of providing an atmosphere our dominant can benefit from, while luckily achieving our own desire of having someone in an adminstering role over us, it works really well. I really feel there's a huge problem that comes from these dictionary debates that make absolute proclamations based on limited experience of actually having lived these types of relationships. I can bring up the dictionary and all of the limited disbeliefs I have, but that doesn't serve anything other than provide me with an atmosphere to hear myself speak with little authority or realized knowledge. We do a great disservice to a lot of people who have little experience in this genre when we make these absolute arguments, based on our opinions rather than our diverse experience. I'll never forget that when I was involved in a total power exchange relationship with my owner, no less than a dozen people expended great deals of energy trying to convince my owner and me that we weren't really in a total power exchange relationship, because we didn't match dictionary debate definitions that they felt so inclined to keep pressing on us over and over again. The fact that the ONLY two people involved in the relationship accepted consensually that we WERE in such a relationship fell on completely deaf ears. People who may have NEVER had ANY relationship felt okay minimizing a real relationship that was taking place, just because they had some bizarre incentive to deconstruct anything that they felt they could never achieve.

NorthernGent -> RE: Needing daily control (1/15/2007 12:12:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: darksdesire I have a strong need to be controlled in small, mundane ways; being told how to dress, perhaps what to eat, tasks to accomplish, and I need this regularly, daily. I'm a case of the shoe on the other foot. I also have a need to control in what you term small, mundane ways but it has to be on my terms rather than a regular daily request. Your scenario seems a tad like topping from the bottom (apologies if this isn't the case). Getting to the point, I had pretty much the same issue with a sub who was requesting regular daily control but a part of what makes me tick is spontaniety. Quite frankly, I find regular to be monotonous and a huge turn-off. Now, I take the point that any relationship is about compromise but this particular issue is not one on which I could compromise. Maybe your Dom can, communication will open a few doors.

darksdesire -> RE: Needing daily control (1/15/2007 1:28:18 PM)
I'm not in any way offended by the suggestion that this could be topping from the bottom. That is my concern as well. Because of that, I tend not to ask for the control. However, if you read the several posts I made, my Master views my asking as a way of offering my submission, and that is something he likes. He apparantly doesn't view it as topping from the bottom; I'm the one who struggles with that.

NorthernGent -> RE: Needing daily control (1/15/2007 1:38:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: darksdesire I'm not in any way offended by the suggestion that this could be topping from the bottom. That is my concern as well. Because of that, I tend not to ask for the control. However, if you read the several posts I made, my Master views my asking as a way of offering my submission, and that is something he likes. He apparantly doesn't view it as topping from the bottom; I'm the one who struggles with that. Apologies for missing half the story. I can also relate to this post because there are a few things that don't fit for me at the moment and I'm in the process of working them out. I imagine your best way forward is to have a chat with some of the more experienced posters for a soundboard and advice (which I suppose is the intention of your OP so apologies for stating the obvious :-) ).

darksdesire -> RE: Needing daily control (1/15/2007 1:51:59 PM)
Lol. No problem. It seems I just have to sort of work it out in my own mind.

MasterFireMaam -> RE: Needing daily control (1/15/2007 7:31:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NorthernGent Your scenario seems a tad like topping from the bottom (apologies if this isn't the case). While I do agree that it can be seen as TFTB, I think that the intent behind it is really what determines if it is or not. If she is doing this just because she wants it, it's likely TFTB. But, if she's doing this out of a true need, it's making her needs know in order to be in a healthy relationship. In the end, only she can decide. Master Fire

NorthernGent -> RE: Needing daily control (1/15/2007 11:26:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MasterFireMaam But, if she's doing this out of a true need, it's making her needs know in order to be in a healthy relationship. In the end, only she can decide. Master Fire The above makes sense to me and, ultimately, whatever the outcome it's another step in the right direction in terms of understanding - so, in my opinion, darks position is cause for optimism rather than concern.

RTSlave4Master -> RE: Needing daily control (1/16/2007 12:08:46 AM)
I have to agree with you totally ! i went for 5 yrs begging for my Master's decisions, controls, etc etc... he just wasn't willing to be the Dom he had been for the first 5 yrs... i can't say why or what happened, but he just stopped. I could not handle it any longer, and asked for release. He gave it without a second thought. So much for Him wanting to keep me. I have now moved on to a New Master who is full of control, and all that i need. I am so much happier ! I wish you well.

SlaveSubtoserve -> RE: Needing daily control (1/16/2007 3:50:28 PM)
i can definitely appreciate your quandry as one who needs much control myself--- sounds like some fundamental incompatibility here or hopefully maybe something that could be worked out as one of the earlier comments said by figuring out how to increase your sense of his controlling you without overstressing him it seems--- with some creativity strict control can be achieved with less effort on the Dom/Domme's part so good luck!

Kondolinni -> RE: Needing daily control (1/16/2007 4:36:59 PM)
I was kind of surprised to not see anyone discuss the mindset of the Dom in this thread. A lot seems to be being taken for granted here. Other than that, it was, is, and will remain a matter of communication and discussion. If noting else, you must be able to request time to put the idea forth for him to consider. And in any case where something so vitally important to either of you is on the line, he ought to be under the same imperitive to provide truthful, helpful information as is expected from you as a submissive. If you can't talk to your Dom about this, that is the first, bigger problem for you to address.

darksdesire -> RE: Needing daily control (1/16/2007 6:22:43 PM)
Actually, it is very helpful to hear the point of view of a dom. Truly, communication is not a problem. We have talked it through many times, but it's simply that asking him for that control is a personal stumbling block for me.

Kondolinni -> RE: Needing daily control (1/17/2007 7:01:11 AM)
Actually, I was referring to the mindset of your Dom. Has he indicated clearly whether this level of control over you is something he wants or is capable of? Have the two of you discussed ways to at least provide you with an outlet for these desires you have? - What about him providing you with such control only for a specified time? The schedule could be as lax as you wish. Anything from an hour a day to 2 hours twice a week... whatever. The point would be he would not have to provide the control constantly, but you would at least get some gratification of the need in you. - What about going to a club or party locally where you could possibly find another to help you with this? What about bringing in a Dom once in a while to micro-manage you for a few hours? As much as I personally detest online D/s M/s "cyber" relationships, perhaps this is a case where one would satisfy your desire. With cams and voice, you could have a Dom issue you commands for a few hours now and then. An aspect of your problem appears to be an ongoing difficulty finding a mutually satisfactory compramise on this with yoru Dom. While I understand that the appropriate mindset for you should come from a desire to please and accomodate your Dom, I also feel this issue is too personal and critical to your happiness to be ignored. It is a contract level issue, meaning one I would expect to be addressed during the initial negotiation of the D/s or M/s dynamic between you. Such issues must be reviewed and revisited on a recurring basis in any serious, love, D/s relationship. In short, the two of you aught to be able to deal with this. The solution should come from the two of you, and there SHOULD BE A SOLUTION. This should not go unaddressed. If you feel uncomfortable asking to be controleed in the way your Dom suggested, perhaps a discussion of the nature of the power exchange dynamic is the best idea. Ask him to define how he sees it. You do the same. If the power exchange dynamic is a real, important part of your relationship, you should not let this matter fester.

Celeste43 -> RE: Needing daily control (1/17/2007 7:43:44 AM)
There are areas he is interested in controlling and areas he isn't. Those aren't going to change. He really doesn't care about what tee shirt I wear to watch my son's basketball game but he'll be a lot more interested if I dangle the black satin bikini with sequins and the red lace boy shorts in front of him and ask him to choose. Same thing with dinner, do you want zucchini or broccoli gets a cold shoulder. Should I make a peach cobbler or an apple pie gets much more interest. Have you paid sufficient attention to him to be able to give him the options in the areas he is interested in controlling or are you asking for control about things he just doesn't care about.

StrictMasterTO -> RE: Needing daily control (1/17/2007 4:14:59 PM)
Having read your original posts and the several replies and subsequent posts, I am sure you realize by now that there are no correct or incorrect answer to your concern and issue. As you are aware control (Dominance) and submission (of control) comes in all shape and form. Even in a subset of TPE (Total Power Exchange), APE (Absolute Power Exchange) or Master/slave lifestyle, people prefer/enjoys different things and hence define control (and the submission of it) differently. I enjoy being Total and Absolute control all the time (yes I have been called a control freak as one of the poster has submitted earlier) but only as it relates to the one who has agreed to serve/submit to me. I am one who do believe and actually enjoy 'micromanagement' (as many seems to call it now) and dont see it as 'work' or even effort. But I am also very practical in my approach. For example, at the beginning of a M/s relationship, I would consider micromanagement a 'must' that is my way of showing/teaching/training my sub/slave what I enjoy, how I enjoy and when I enjoy it. So yes it includes simple things the way she is to dress/undress, eat, sleep, talk, walk, ....etc I do agree that (while I dont consider it work but more enjoyment) that it does take time and effort. However, what more enjoyable time and effort can be spent to teach one to do exactly what and how you enjoy her doing (whatever tasks) and her drawing the pleasure of knowing that she is doing 'exactly' what you want. I am not one of those Master who simply enjoys 'owning' slaves/subs but without actually spending the time to 'enjoy' such ownership, ie now that I own you ..continue doing what you did before and don't 'bug' me (I mean where is the enjoyment in that?) However, I am very much aware and respect that there are many Masters/Dominants out there who have absolutely no interests in 'micromanaging' certain activities and that is fine too (as there are just as many slaves/submissives who prefer it that way). For those, the Masters/Dominants have 'identified' the controls that they would enjoy but have no 'real preference' as to how other 'mundane' activities are carried out as long as the ones they enjoy are done properly. After an 'initial' period of training (and very much micromanaging) and that could mean 'months/years', I would expect my slave to know what is 'expected' of her in the scenarios where she has been trained and the control (while still achieving the same result ie pleasing the Master) would change. (LOLat this point I am starting to sound confusing even to me so...I am going to continue what I mean via an example). Let's pick the example of 'what to wear' and the requirement to ask for permission first....(since that is one of those in your original post), at the 'beginning of the relationship', I would make it very clear what would be required of her. What she is allowed to wear and not wear in house, what she is allowed to wear not wear, outside. From that 'instruction' about what is allowed and not allowed, would then come a 'selection' of wardrobe. The progression of my control and her training would be as follows: At first, every night, I would take out her next day's clothing/wardrobe (For eg if she was to stay at home and I didnt take out any clothing for her...means she is to remain naked for that day (often to me it will depend if I am expection company or how the weather is or what chores I had in mind for her would determine how I wanted her to dress or not dress).As she is familiarized (and I would constantly be communicating my wishes throughout the process so she learns) with my wishes, next step I would simply instruct her to take out her next day's clothing for my approval..then the next step ...she would pick a selection of clothing for the week (ie daily..monday this, tuesday this...etc ) and I would approve (or change)them on Sunday night/evening for the week....Next step , I would instruct that she is allowed to wear between a selection of 'allowed/approved' clothing...without having to ask specifically which one for which day. etc... As you see, the control is still there, and the need for permission is still there but it now requires 'less micro managing' as long as the slave knows that everything she does that relates to her is for my pleasure so as long as the 'decision' is made for my pleasure, it is 'likely' to be approved. and it all starts with a simple question : (not may i, can i ...etc) but 'would it please Master that i .....' etc.(or 'this slave' again that is a whole range of how different relationships may wish the slave/sub to refer to themselves as). Pheww...I think I should stop here..all I really wanted to say was that neither your 'feeling' of needing to ask permission for (what many consider) mundane activities nor your Master's decision to actually tell you what to do for each activity without you having to 'ask' is right or wrong. But since you have agreed to submit/serve him and be 'owned' by him, it is important that he knows that this does affect/confuse you (no Master is a mind reader, no matter what they tell you) and why? then he would decide whether he can/will give you a 'general' instruction, as for example, you are only allowed to wear dress/skirt when allowed to go out (which means 'you don't need to ask me which specific dress/skirt' each day/time) or he may say ' I want you to ask me each time if your selection pleases me before you wear it' or he may say no 'I dont really want to choose your clothing each day, but I do want to approve what you choose'...or he may choose to do/say nothing, if that is the case, you will remain confused...which means you will continue asking.. Hope what I said make sense..Enjoy your lifestyle, Serve, Obey and Please your Master/Owner S

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