RE: Unrealistic expectations

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mymasterssub69 -> RE: Unrealistic expectations (1/15/2007 12:07:38 PM)
Large older women, especially those who don't at least try and dress up, are a dime a dozen to the point of being a cliche. Many come to the scene because it is one of the only places where they can be thought of as sexual beings. imho - you are dead wrong. i didn't come into the scene thinking it was the ONLY place i could be thought of as a sexual being. if you're looking the typical and standard barbie dimensions in a submissive then kudos for you for having such a personal, narrow-minded choice. yet, you should never judge a large younger and older woman until you really get to know her and understand why she is a submissive. it's men like you who seem to be hell bent on generalizing why large women like being submissives.

NorthernGent -> RE: Unrealistic expectations (1/15/2007 12:24:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mymasterssub69 yet, you should never judge a large younger and older woman until you really get to know her and understand why she is a submissive. I like this point. One of my prejudgements that has proved to be wrong is the notion that BDSM and D/s is not bound by the shallowness of society's norms. My assumption was that part of the self-development people need is moving beyond what society would have us believe is desirable in a man or a woman i.e. blonde, plastic tits etc. If a bloke wants a dolly bird and has a bit of conversation on him and a sense of humour then a night in a club should do the trick.

slavejali -> RE: Unrealistic expectations (1/15/2007 12:38:44 PM)
Your post made sense to me. I was just thinking about my son yesterday and the relationships he has been invovled in. He is a really attractive man (of course being my son), he attracts beautiful model type women..yet they all turn out to be lacking in so many areas, , he complains they waste money, use all his, aren't responsible, are liars, cheaters, emotionally unstable, act like their mothers, are uninteresting etc.....so anyways the thought occurred to me..He is never going to find anyone different until he changes himself. Its not that he should be with an unattractive woman, but there are qualities within himself that have to mature..He cannot expect to attract a "with it" woman if he is not that way himself..well he might initially attract one..but the relationship will not have the stuff to sustain itself (they would be incompatable in so many ways). These women are hooking into him because of his own failings. For him to expect anything more is at the very least unrealistic. So yeah, not particularly a BDSM issue, but your point is valid across the board of the dating scene. People do oftentimes expect more from others than they have got to offer themselves.

Missokyst -> RE: Unrealistic expectations (1/15/2007 12:55:38 PM)
I would agree with you in that there are more subs than doms and that it is sort of a buyers market out there. I could easily flip over to the topside and find a handful of willing partners. It is much more difficult as a sub bottom to find a talented and creative top. But I don't think there are that many of those out there either. Too many people have those "unrealistic expectations" including the talented and creative tops. I say this because there are so many people still looking. I personally would never feel obligated to top simply because I was there. Nor would I bottom just to have someone look at me as a sexual being. The best thing about being an older full figured woman is having the confidence to know I don't have to base my feelings of self worth on someone else's judgement. Yeah, it is a buyers market out there. But there are sure are a LOT of people leaving the store without stopping to read the ingredients. That is just life. Kyst quote: ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael Creative and talented tops of whatever orientation are in far higher demand than submissives. When you consider what it takes to form stable relationships, many of them drop out when they find the right partner, further reducing the pool and increasing scarcity. If I am going to send flowers to a woman and take her to a restaraunt (one I have gone to and found the best table prior to making a reservation) and get all dolled up and drop a few hundred dollars on dinner she is going to be: Intelligent Classy Stunning Tall Stable and drama free Perverted So trust me ladies, my pool is VASTLY smaller than even yours is. We all have our crosses to bear.

gentlethistle -> RE: Unrealistic expectations (1/15/2007 1:03:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael Large older women, especially those who don't at least try and dress up, are a dime a dozen to the point of being a cliche. Many come to the scene because it is one of the only places where they can be thought of as sexual beings. Yes, I enjoy being thought of (and used) as a sexual being. I missed not having the pleasure of that when it wasn't the case. And yes, it's probably true to say that it is easier for me to be regarded that way in a D/s partnership, for various reasons. It is also, as it happens, easier for me to be regarded thus online than in person. I never learned to flirt, I can't really do 'dressing up' (heck I can't even do shopping any more) and my body language is definitely better in text. But despite being large and old my body has been desired, so finding such a thing isn't impossible, despite the asserted insuperable odds. I don't see it as wrong to want to be regarded as sexual, nor do I think I would have sought out a D/s relationship if that dynamic weren't intrinsically attractive to me in the first place. However, it was noticable that I was much more likely to receive responses to my profile at collarme than on any vanilla dating website where I have ever cast up a profile. I don't have any expectations now, realistic or otherwise...I just try to do what has to be done and when I can't I'll stop. A Cliche

KnightofMists -> RE: Unrealistic expectations (1/15/2007 1:04:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael Creative and talented tops of whatever orientation are in far higher demand than submissives. When you consider what it takes to form stable relationships, many of them drop out when they find the right partner, further reducing the pool and increasing scarcity. I concur quote: Every newbie wants an "experienced dom" thus our preocupation with experience over skill. I concur... problem is what is Good Skill as compared to Bad Skill. When talking about Flogging it's alittle easier.... when we talking about D/s... it gets tougher. I also suspect that newbie's don't know how to judge skill and many get into the mindset that experience equates to skill. Big problems with that. quote: Large older women, especially those who don't at least try and dress up, are a dime a dozen to the point of being a cliche. Many come to the scene because it is one of the only places where they can be thought of as sexual beings. I would agree that larger women seem to be higher in numbers in the Lifestyle scene than the general popluation. I however, don't completely agree with your reasons for their motivations for being in the scene.. but then again... I strongly suspect that their is some truth in what you say as well. quote: I am posting this because of the vanilla dating thread, now we not only have to be experienced, we have to have skills in romance as well. However, we are not allowed to look at the herd and pick out the "good" ones as we see fit. I am not sure that is the message of the thread... but it is clear that many want some romance in their relationships.... I don't have an issue with that... if that is what you want... but it soon loses it's appeal when you want the romance over the D/s. My thougths...go roleplay somewhere else. quote: Just ain't gonna happen sister, get used to it. Of course there will now be 50 post by some 250 pound woman who's dom could double for Marqi De Sade, James Bond, Cary Grant. Great, but as wonderful as that is for YOU, it just isn't likely to happen to 98% of the women in your shoes. I concur.. I would say the odds are little higher . quote: I realize many reading this are going to take this as an attack because for some pointing out the truth or poking holes in their cherished illusions IS an attack. This isn't. I am just trying to "tell it like it is" I concur quote: One of the reasons I HATE going to parties alone is the social pressure I feel to play. I like younger attractive women who take care of themselves. One of the women in my life who made my blood boil hottest was a size 16 but oh my god was she stylish so I CAN see other things. Quality is Quality... I find most men lust for a fantasy or two... but they look for qualities that they can love in person. quote: But, back to whatever point I am trying to make, think long and hard about what YOU are looking for. Do you show up at a party being ready to play with anyone who is safe and who asks you to play? Most don't. There you just did the same thing you get pissed at "us" for doing. You don't want to play with the guy with nose hairs, or the awkward doof, or the short fat bald dom. Well then don't be living in glass houses! Problem is we all live in Glasshouses. Unless your prefect like me. quote: If I am going to send flowers to a woman and take her to a restaraunt (one I have gone to and found the best table prior to making a reservation) and get all dolled up and drop a few hundred dollars on dinner she is going to be: Intelligent Classy Stunning Tall Stable and drama free Perverted So trust me ladies, my pool is VASTLY smaller than even yours is. We all have our crosses to bear. you forgot.. can suck a golf ball thru a garden hose.... but then again... some may think that is a peversion... I just think it is a lifestyle skill.

MaryT -> RE: Unrealistic expectations (1/15/2007 1:21:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael If I am going to send flowers to a woman and take her to a restaraunt (one I have gone to and found the best table prior to making a reservation) and get all dolled up and drop a few hundred dollars on dinner she is going to be: Intelligent Classy Stunning Tall Stable and drama free Perverted So trust me ladies, my pool is VASTLY smaller than even yours is. We all have our crosses to bear. Think about this, Michael: As you age and lose your good looks (and you will), your pool will become vastly smaller still if your demands remain the same. If a woman was intelligent, classy, stunning, stable, perverted and 5'0" tall, would that be a deal breaker for you? [:)] There is something in all this that nourishes idealistic thinking and enflames fantasy. That's been true for me anyway and I see a lot of it on these boards. I think that was your point. If so, I agree - it's not helpful.

LotusSong -> RE: Unrealistic expectations (1/15/2007 1:34:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MaryT quote: ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael If I am going to send flowers to a woman and take her to a restaraunt (one I have gone to and found the best table prior to making a reservation) and get all dolled up and drop a few hundred dollars on dinner she is going to be: Intelligent Classy Stunning Tall Stable and drama free Perverted So trust me ladies, my pool is VASTLY smaller than even yours is. We all have our crosses to bear. Think about this, Michael: As you age and lose your good looks (and you will), your pool will become vastly smaller still if your demands remain the same. If a woman was intelligent, classy, stunning, stable, perverted and 5'0" tall, would that be a deal breaker for you? [:)] There is something in all this that nourishes idealistic thinking and enflames fantasy. That's been true for me anyway and I see a lot of it on these boards. I think that was your point. If so, I agree - it's not helpful. Good point :) Age and Death.. the great "equalizers"

slavegirljoy -> RE: Unrealistic expectations (1/15/2007 1:41:24 PM)
Actually, Sir, for most of my life, i have had to "satisfy someone else's standards of personal care" and grooming. As i child, i couldn't think of stepping out the front door without my hair being neatly combed, my teeth brushed and wearing clean clothes with socks and shoes on. These were my father's standards for all of his children. When i became a soldier, at age 18, i had to meet the Army's standards for weight and appearance, including having my hair not touch my collar and wearing a clean and neatly pressed uniform with highly shined boots. In my civilian jobs, i have always had to dress and look appropriately professional for an office setting and for meeting the public. As a slave, i have had to meet my Master's standards for weight, cleanliness, hairstyle, make-up and clothing. Fortunately, i have never had a problem meeting anyone else's standards regarding my appearance because my own standards have always been at or above any that were being set for me (although i am carrying more weight than i would like, right now, but i'm working at getting it back down). i don't even go to check the mail without, at least, having my hair combed neatly and wearing decent clothes for being outside. That's just how i am and i know there are plenty of people (men as well as women) who don't have much in the way of personal standards for grooming. i see them every time i go to the grocery store and i really don't understand it, but i'm glad that i don't have to live with them and i can look away. slave joy Owned property of Master David [/quote] The key point is this: no woman is under any obligation to satisfy someone else's standards of personal care, standards of weight, standards of anything - she has an obligation to herself and if she chooses to present herself in a manner that falls short of others' expectations then there is no match. It's a diverse world and we all have something to offer someone. [/quote]

Salacious40 -> RE: Unrealistic expectations (1/15/2007 1:52:56 PM)
Many come to the scene because it is one of the only places where they can be thought of as sexual beings. *Perhaps we are more visible because it is one of the only places we feel comfortable to express* ourselves as sexual beings not because we want to be seen as sexual beings? In today's society, we are innundated with unrealistic expectations in our work, relationships, appearances. I don't understand why it would be any different in a subculture. We are still the same people setting those expectations outside this subculture. You have set your expectations high. Should you be criticized for it? I don't believe you should. You obviously have a great deal of self-worth and want someone to match that. But I also don't think the size of my ass should dictate the height of my expectations because most people think it's a bit too large. Attraction is such a personal thing. Unkempt women or men, regardless of their size, are projecting exactly what they have to offer. If someone doesn't care enough to put effort in how they project themselves (physically, emotionally, mentally, sexually), then what effort will they put into the relationship? I spend much time with the details of grooming....hair, nails, subtle makeup, clothing that is flattering, etc. I know it takes me much longer to find a 'perfect' outfit than my thinner friends. But in the end, we all wind up naked, vulnerable and exposed. That beauty can come in many packages, but the expression of that beauty is unique to each person. As a larger and older woman, I didn't take this as an attack. You are expressing your views as you have experienced them. My only reservation is perhaps there was a bit too much of a blanket over your statements. But then again it's just my perception. warmest regards, Elena**

daddysliloneds -> RE: Unrealistic expectations (1/15/2007 1:57:13 PM)
you know, in a way i feel you're right and in a way i feel you're wrong; why? well because i've found that being skinny, classy, intelligent, stunning, and perverted tends to intimidate more men, doms and/or otherwise... when they feel mentally, emotionally and/or physically equal to the woman, they no longer find interest in 'that particular type' because they suddenly go from 'mr. macho hunk-of-hunk-of man', to sounding like a whiney little boy who isn't getting his way... somewhat like the tone of this post. guess it must be because i'm short and not tall, ha, ha, ha.

eroticangel -> RE: Unrealistic expectations (1/15/2007 1:57:17 PM)
Elena, Your words were beautiful and right on the money, i agree 100%. Thank you, roe

KnightofMists -> RE: Unrealistic expectations (1/15/2007 2:10:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Salacious40 *Perhaps we are more visible because it is one of the only places we feel comfortable to express* ourselves as sexual beings not because we want to be seen as sexual beings this is a good point....** quote: You have set your expectations high. Should you be criticized for it? I don't believe you should. You obviously have a great deal of self-worth and want someone to match that. But I also don't think the size of my ass should dictate the height of my expectations because most people think it's a bit too large. I don't think that is entirely his point.... I think it's more that we must be honest with all of what we are.. and expect no more OR no less. Be Realistic! in the probablity and effort required to obtain one's desired expectations. Be it body size, age, or other very subject tastes and ideals.

KnightofMists -> RE: Unrealistic expectations (1/15/2007 2:14:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: daddysliloneds when they feel mentally, emotionally and/or physically equal to the woman, they no longer find interest in 'that particular type' because they suddenly go from 'mr. macho hunk-of-hunk-of man', to sounding like a whiney little boy who isn't getting his way... or instead of whinny they just get labeled as Asshole.. ... oh the narrow line we must walk. There is nothing as thrilling as a capable person.. woman or man who has a postive attitude that is mentally, emotionally and/or physically appealing.. whatever happens to appeal to oneself.

NorthernGent -> RE: Unrealistic expectations (1/15/2007 2:16:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slavegirljoy Actually, Sir, for most of my life, i have had to "satisfy someone else's standards of personal care" and grooming. As i child, i couldn't think of stepping out the front door without my hair being neatly combed, my teeth brushed and wearing clean clothes with socks and shoes on. These were my father's standards for all of his children. When i became a soldier, at age 18, i had to meet the Army's standards for weight and appearance, including having my hair not touch my collar and wearing a clean and neatly pressed uniform with highly shined boots. In my civilian jobs, i have always had to dress and look appropriately professional for an office setting and for meeting the public. As a slave, i have had to meet my Master's standards for weight, cleanliness, hairstyle, make-up and clothing. Fortunately, i have never had a problem meeting anyone else's standards regarding my appearance because my own standards have also been at or above any that were being set for me. i don't even go to check the mail without, at least, having my hair combed neatly and wearing decent clothes for being outside. That's just how i am and i know there are plenty of people (men as well as women) who don't have much in the way of personal standards for grooming. i see them every time i go to the grocery store and i really don't understand it, but i'm glad that i don't have to live with them and i can look away. slave joy Owned property of Master David Sorry, I didn't make my intention clear. The meaning of my post was/is: if a woman needs to satisfy someone elses' standard of personal care in order to feel complete in service then I can understand that. Similarly, if a woman (any woman) does not see personal care as important in paving the way for submission then, in my opinion, that is her call and she's entitled to her stance. It then becomes a matter of Doms' values and opinions as to whether or not personal hygiene/care is interwoven with self-respect and self-development. I have my opinion and way of doing things but others will disagree. Some will have no wish to change someone's physical appearance.

bandit25 -> RE: Unrealistic expectations (1/15/2007 2:17:50 PM)
If Michael's point is that we should be more honest with who we are, I think he missed the mark...by a pretty wide margin. I guess it's all in the presentation.

juliaoceania -> RE: Unrealistic expectations (1/15/2007 2:28:00 PM)
Like I have said before, I do not do public play at this time, probably will change in the not-so-distant future because my Daddy wants to show me off. But I do not hold a ruler up to myself and the "competition". I used to work in nightclubs as a cocktail waitress/hostess/sometimes bartender shift manager. I was young, hot, single, and not there to be picked up, but to work. It amazed me how meat markets work, how people judge themselves compared to others. It is an extremely negative vibe in my opinion. I would NOT enjoy public play if it was like clubs that I have been to in my younger days... everyone out to get laid, show how "hot" they are... how superficial. Not my thing as far as a social networking place to find a relationship. For many women it is not about playing in the public scene, or about having the most skilled top in town, it is about the relationship aspects. I do not know why that bothers you Michael. I do understand being amused that someone who is not exactly model material demanding the same from those they play with, but that is their choice to be that choosy isn't it? They only narrow their own playing field by holding expectations so high without trying to be the "match" for that person they wish to attract. No harm, no foul. I do wonder if perhaps there is a feeling of guilt that you wanna play with the 20-somethings as opposed to someone who is more mature, has a few pounds to lose because they are judging you as superficial. You have the right to want what it is that you want. They have the right to want what they want... I do not see the problem to be honest. We are only responsible for what we want, not what other people want after all. I admire people who identify their desires and set out to fulfill them. What I read on that other thread was not so much unrealistic expectations for the most part, but a lack of confidence in getting what is wanted... I would rather focus on the men that fit what I desire than focus on the men that do not measure up to my expectations. But that is just me.. viewing the glass as half full. My expectations really had nothing to do with experience, talent, the amount of hair or teeth[:D]. They were not based upon what work a person did. They were based upon someone desiring the same things as me, having similar values, intellect that matched or exceeded my own, and that thing called "chemistry", which for me is not a ceetain "type" physically".. it is just when it is there it is there. People should look for what makes them happy, even if you or I think they are being unrealistic. No one should tell another that what they want is "wrong" as long as they are not hurting anyone else. I do not think it is my job at least to do so.

Kondolinni -> RE: Unrealistic expectations (1/15/2007 2:39:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael Warning, I am going to say some very un PC shit in this thread and I am going to piss a lot of people off so consider yourself forewarned. I wonder if it was worth it. It is undeniable that many even marginally experienced Tops/Dominants feel in a way similar to that expressed in thsi post. While I might not have chosen to be as brusk as SimplyMichael has been, I have to say I agree with much of what he says here. Creative and talented tops of whatever orientation are in far higher demand than submissives. When you consider what it takes to form stable relationships, many of them drop out when they find the right partner, further reducing the pool and increasing scarcity. Absolutely true. How many Tops/Dominants who have been a member of this site (or others like it) for any length of time can attest to the syndrome of a novice submissive, or even a new submissive member with some experience, posting an intitially upbeat profile, then, within a few weeks at most, amending said profile with critisms of the site and it's members because of the huge number of idiot posts they receive? I've seen one novice submissive after another drop off the site in less than a month because thay are furstrated and infuriated with the freaks. Does anyone really think men are that uniformly shallow? Yeah, I know. I just extended this thread by a lightyear because of that remark. Bring it on ladies. The truth is that, while men can be dogs, those of us who are following up on the agenda that brought us to this site in the first place are busy enjoying our submissives, or the fellowship we sought. Not looking for the next initiate/novice who hasn't already put us on ignore, or heard our particular brand of bullshit a thousand times already. Every newbie wants an "experienced dom" thus our preocupation with experience over skill. I don't agree. Novices often don't have a clue what they want. Many profiles reflecct this. Among those that do have a clue about themselves, the majority indicate where they are looking for depth. Large older women, especially those who don't at least try and dress up, are a dime a dozen to the point of being a cliche. Many come to the scene because it is one of the only places where they can be thought of as sexual beings. You called it when you opened this thread. What a can of worms. I happen to agree. I also think there is a direct connection between the size/appearance of a "submissive", and the fact that they either push the romance agenda to the hilt, because of the lack of experiences in relationships in their lives, resulting in their growth as a potential lover having stopped somewhere around the age of 14, or, they put it right out front that they will pretty much do anything a Dominant/Top wants, no matter how disgusting, to get a little attention. Neither of these is appealing to me. I am posting this because of the vanilla dating thread, now we not only have to be experienced, we have to have skills in romance as well. However, we are not allowed to look at the herd and pick out the "good" ones as we see fit. Speak for yourself. The block button works both ways. Just ain't gonna happen sister, get used to it. Of course there will now be 50 post by some 250 pound woman who's dom could double for Marqi De Sade, James Bond, Cary Grant. Great, but as wonderful as that is for YOU, it just isn't likely to happen to 98% of the women in your shoes. If this wasn't true, there wouldn't be 200 or more profiles that pop up for your geographical region that have essentially not changed in 4 years. Either the women under discussion here are almost to a soul happy just to talk about it and not follow up, or they have nobody to follow up with. I realize many reading this are going to take this as an attack because for some pointing out the truth or poking holes in their cherished illusions IS an attack. This isn't. I am just trying to "tell it like it is" It is a rant, however. Which doesn't bother me in the slightest. I read several responses to this thread alluding to this being a cliched subject. So what? I for one am tired of profile after profile after profile that exactly matches the description posted here. Speaking for one Dominant, fair is fair. If we have to read the crap in lonely fat girl profiles... actually, wade through them to find one possible gem worth the time to correspond with, I feel it is only fair that we get to say our piece every now and then. One of the reasons I HATE going to parties alone is the social pressure I feel to play. I like younger attractive women who take care of themselves. One of the women in my life who made my blood boil hottest was a size 16 but oh my god was she stylish so I CAN see other things. This paragraph justifies this post, whether anyone reading it likes what is said here, or agrees with it. I whole-heartedly agree. Class is class. Size is a non-issue, unless a plus-sized girl makes it an issue herself. My best girlfreind in highschool, who also happened to be the most popular girl in the school, was bigger than a size 16. I also was a member of a semi-professional hard rock band through most of the 80's... played out 30+ weeks a year. I got more ass during that period than I am ever likely to make most people believe. I've been physically close to just about every body type you care to describe. I say again, class is class. But, back to whatever point I am trying to make, think long and hard about what YOU are looking for. Do you show up at a party being ready to play with anyone who is safe and who asks you to play? Most don't. There you just did the same thing you get pissed at "us" for doing. You don't want to play with the guy with nose hairs, or the awkward doof, or the short fat bald dom. Well then don't be living in glass houses! As long as you can handle the heat, I say enjoy your time in the kitchen. If I am going to send flowers to a woman and take her to a restaraunt (one I have gone to and found the best table prior to making a reservation) and get all dolled up and drop a few hundred dollars on dinner she is going to be: Intelligent Classy Stunning Tall Stable and drama free Perverted So trust me ladies, my pool is VASTLY smaller than even yours is. We all have our crosses to bear. quote: ORIGINAL: Kinght of Mists Problem is we all live in Glasshouses. Unless your prefect like me. My kind of post. I laughed so hard the folks n the upstairs apartment banged on the ceiling.

daddysliloneds -> RE: Unrealistic expectations (1/15/2007 2:40:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KnightofMists quote: ORIGINAL: daddysliloneds when they feel mentally, emotionally and/or physically equal to the woman, they no longer find interest in 'that particular type' because they suddenly go from 'mr. macho hunk-of-hunk-of man', to sounding like a whiney little boy who isn't getting his way... or instead of whinny they just get labeled as Asshole.. nah, you earned that with your passive-aggressive behavior in private e-mail to me; kind of like what you're doing right now.

lighthearted -> RE: Unrealistic expectations (1/15/2007 2:43:02 PM)
much has been said here that I agree with, but I suppose the two cents I'd like to throw in, is that until you actually meet a person face to face, there is no point in trying to gauge how you will feel about them. confidence, class, personal grooming, even intelligence can't be judged online or on the phone. it's all part of the game, in my opinion. you play the game and you take your chances. sometimes you hit the jackpot and sometimes you go directly to jail (ok, hopefully not jail). but anyway, it really is a game, it always has been...remember the Dating Game? guys/girls had to choose a potential date without the benefit of actually seeing them in person. they could only hear the answers to their questions. sound familiar? the internet may have broadened our horizons, the pool that we fish in, but in the end, it's all still a game. quote: ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael But, back to whatever point I am trying to make, think long and hard about what YOU are looking for. Do you show up at a party being ready to play with anyone who is safe and who asks you to play? Most don't. There you just did the same thing you get pissed at "us" for doing. You don't want to play with the guy with nose hairs, or the awkward doof, or the short fat bald dom. Well then don't be living in glass houses! don't be so quick to judge women you don't know...I've been involved with or lusted after many different types of guys...some include short, fat guys, some were awkward doofs, but because I could look and maybe get a glimpse of who they were when they weren't nervous or uncomfortable, I could see more than if I had just immediately disregarded them for their looks. (my ideal guy: tall, dark and dorky!) and I'm sure one day I'll be old...and probably fat, too, but, hey, at least I can say I always tried to find the best in every person I met, and that I could look back on my life and be thankful for whatever it was that they did (or didn't) bring to my life. maybe instead of this turning into an "I'm better than you are thread" or a "why are all _____ fat", it could be a "why can't we all just get along thread"...

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