quote:

Have any links to support as fact that second hand smoke has been proven a danger to anyone as of yet? Or are we still in the "maybe, might, hypothetical" stage?

quote:


What a lovely "society" you wish to live in. Free to do as you please causing harm to anyone, and IF someone else doesn't like the harm you have caused them, they can take you to court.

Does that work with rape, and breaking and entering too... free to do as you please with your anatomy and your physical bodily presence until someone takes you to court? Some laws are necessary to make society function, to preserve the rights of others and to ke

quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressLorelei

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

quote:


Free people? Where? lol. I am not sure I get your point. No one is free to do whatever they wish with their own body... publicly.

Frankly, Bullshit.

If you're NOT free to do whatever you wish with your body, you are a Slave. If you must obey The State, then you are The States Slave.

Slaves have rules they must obey from their master. Free People don't really give a shit about them, or their problems.

*IF* I do something which causes you injury, then take me to court, otherwise, keep your Socialist attitudes about submission to The State to yourself, OK?

What a lovely "society" you wish to live in. Free to do as you please causing harm to anyone, and IF someone else doesn't like the harm you have caused them, they can take you to court.

quote:


Does that work with rape, and breaking and entering too... free to do as you please with your anatomy and your physical bodily presence until someone takes you to court?

Do you think the Real World works any other way?
Some laws are necessary to make society function, to preserve the rights of others and to keep people safe.

quote:


We are all responsible for adhering to some regulations whether we like it or not.

quote:


If you want to be free to do anything you please, whenever you please, have no laws, regulations or wish to lack the ability to socialize with others in a reasoanble manner....

quote:

 Until then, until people are just as ready to stop parents from letting their kids step foot out into the big bad word of deadly air pollutants that trigger asthma to allergys..it remains lame. Will even go so far as to say that if you can provide a link that all asthmatics are triggered into an attack as a result of second hand smoke? A high percentage even? How about factual numbers of parents with asthmatic children that are smoking around them?

• 
  Secondhand smoke has been classified by the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) as a known cause of cancer in humans (Group A carcinogen).2
• 
  Secondhand smoke exposure causes disease and premature death in children and adults who do not smoke. Secondhand smoke contains hundreds of chemicals known to be toxic or carcinogenic, including formaldehyde, benzene, vinyl chloride, arsenic ammonia and hydrogen cyanide.3
• 
  Secondhand smoke causes approximately 3,400 lung cancer deaths and 22,700-69,600 heart disease deaths in adult nonsmokers in the United States each year.4
• 
  A study found that nonsmokers exposed to environmental smoke were 25 percent more likely to have coronary heart diseases compared to nonsmokers not exposed to smoke.67
• 
  Nonsmokers exposed to secondhand smoke at work are at increased risk for adverse health effects.  Levels of ETS in restaurants and bars were found to be 2 to 5 times higher than in residences with smokers and 2 to 6 times higher than in office workplaces.89
• 
  Since 1999, 70 percent of the U.S. workforce worked under a smoke-free policy, ranging from 83.9 percent in Utah to 48.7 percent in Nevada.1011  Workplace productivity was increased and absenteeism was decreased among former smokers compared with current smokers.1213
• 
  Currently, 14 states including California, Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, Hawaii, Maine, Massachusetts, Montana, New Jersey Rhode Island, Utah, Vermont, and Washington, as well as the District of Columbia and Puerto Rico, have already passed strong smoke-free air laws.1415
• 
  As of 2005, nine smoke-free states prohibit smoking in almost all workplaces, including restaurants and bars (CA, CT, DE, ME, MA, NY, RI, VT and WA).1617
• 
  Secondhand smoke is especially harmful to young children. Secondhand smoke is responsible for between 150,000 and 300,000 lower respiratory tract infections in infants and children under 18 months of age, resulting in between 7,500 and 15,000 hospitalizations each year, and causes 1,900 to 2,700 sudden infant death syndrome (SIDS) deaths in the United States annually.1819
• 
  Secondhand smoke exposure may cause buildup of fluid in the middle ear, resulting in 700,000 to 1.6 million physician office visits per year.2021 Secondhand smoke can also aggravate symptoms in 400,000  to 1,000,000 children with asthma.2223
• 
  In the United States, 21 million, or 35 percent of, children live in homes where residents or visitors smoke in the home on a regular basis.2425  Approximately 50-75 percent of children in the United States have detectable levels of cotinine, the breakdown product of nicotine in the blood.2627
• 
  New research indicates that private research conducted by cigarette company Philip Morris in the 1980s showed that secondhand smoke was highly toxic, yet the company suppressed the finding during the next two decades.2829
• 
  The current Surgeon General's Report concluded that scientific evidence indicates that there is no risk-free level of exposure to second hand smoke. Short exposures to second hand smoke can cause blood platelets to become stickier, damage the lining of blood vessels, decrease coronary flow velocity reserves, and reduce heart rate variability, potentially increasing the risk of heart attack.3031

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lorelei115

The point I think meatcleaver is trying to make with the air pollution (forgive me if I'm wrong here) is that if you are going to ban something because it is harmful to other people, you have to ban EVERYTHING that might be harmful to other people. But because smokers are a smaller group of people than those who drive cars, they are easier to target.

I mean, I guess I could write a letter to my senator requesting a new law be put into place that prohibits grills and open flame cooking in restaurants. After all, the smoke that comes out of those is loaded with carcinogens, just like cigarette smoke. Hell, we'd have to shut the whole state of Louisiana down due to their whole thing with "blackening" food. And further down the road, I could prevent people from barbequeing in their own homes, because the smoke drifts over to my property and I don't want MY family exposed to that sort of thing.

I will also reiterate what I said in an earlier thread. If you don't like the smoke, leave. Its that simple. Business owners aren't as stupid as some people seem to think. If they are losing too much clientele because of cigarette smoke, they will change over to a non smoking environment.

quote:


As for people who live more than a mile or two from work, well how about er......walking or riding a bike? I thought you anti-smokers were into looking after you health?

quote:

ORIGINAL: CandleInTheWind

as an asthmatic that grew up sitting inthe back seat of two chimnies i find smoking to be a nusance and a health hazard...do i think that smokers shouldnt be allowed to smoke in their own homes...HELL no do i think that parent should smoke in a car with their kids in it  HELL NO....it is child endangerment  just as i wouldnt want the kid to see their parent drugged up or drunk i wouldnt want the kid to be in the back seaat of two chimneys!  do think that smokers should light up right out side every freaking doo i try to go through? NO   you want to smoke  be my guest  but do not toxify MY air!   i have to walk throught he cloud and since i was smart enough not to start becasue after all when i was a kid they knew that smoking causees cancer and silly me i didnt want to get cancer!

but it is the little things that bother me....whe goignto work  non smokers dont take 10 minute ciggarette break every hour or so...so we end up putting in a few extra hours at teh end of the week...we are expected to keep working...we wuld be looked at as complete idiots if we just stopped working while everyone else took a ciggerette breask....I know i did it once..I was the only non smoker in the office..and everyone els eused to take hourly or near houry breaks  for cigerettes..so when they all wen touside to smoke i would take out my book until they came back...i got written up....so my next way of showing the issue up was to go outside and do some stretching excesizes when they went out to smoke....and again i got writtin up ...i then spoke to the HR  lad and explianed to her that i didnt think it fair that i was expected to pick up the slack for the amount of time that 9 other people decided to take...

i was told to make it less obvious...so i would make a potty stop and read a book for the 10 minutes...funny when the phone wasnt getting picked up at all for al that time...i suddenly becasme very importants....

granted i was a punky 18 year old...but the issue is the same  why should non smokes have to pick up the slack...??   the majority od you know of the hazards and the risks and yet you chose to smoke  why shoudli have to pick up the slack??  I have 2 children that smoke...i cut them NO slack...no i willnot wait to drive away becasue you decided to light up and no you canot get into the care reaking of smoke eitehr.... but that is just me


bitch bitch bitch... but rich rich rich i have no tobacco monkey on my back to feed

quote:

  In 1992, for example, the American Environmental Protection Agency published a report that was said to demonstrate the link between passive smoking and ill health in non-smokers. In 1996 however a US federal court ruled that the EPA had completely failed to prove its case. It was found not only to have abandoned recognised statistical practice, but to have excluded studies which did not support its pre-determined conclusion, and to have been inconsistent in its classification of ETS compared with other substances.

quote:

 
Professor Sir Richard Doll, the first scientist to publish research that suggested a correlation between lung cancer and primary smoking, commented: 'The effects of other people smoking in my presence is so small it doesn't worry me.'

quote:


If that wasn't damning enough, in March 1998 the World Health Organisation was forced to admit that the results of a seven-year study (the largest of its kind) into the link between passive smoking and lung cancer were not 'statistically significant'. This is because the risk of a non-smoker getting lung cancer has been estimated at 0.01%. According to WHO, non-smokers are subjecting themselves to an increased risk of 16-17% if they consistently breathe other people's tobacco smoke. This may sound alarming, but an increase of 16-17% on 0.01 is so small that, in most people's eyes, it is no risk at all.

quote:

 
the Greater London Assembly Investigative Committee on Smoking in Public Places declined to recommend ANY further restrictions on smoking in public places, stating very clearly that it is not easy to prove a link between passive smoking and lung cancer.

quote:

HELL no  do i think that parent should smoke in a car with their kids in it  HELL NO...

quote:

but it is the little things that bother me....whe goignto work  non smokers dont take 10 minute ciggarette break every hour or so...so we end up putting in a few extra hours at teh end of the week...we are expected to keep working...we wuld be looked at as complete idiots if we just stopped working while everyone else took a ciggerette breask....I know i did it once..I was the only non smoker in the office..and everyone els eused to take hourly or near houry breaks  for cigerettes..so when they all wen touside to smoke i would take out my book until they came back...i got written up....so my next way of showing the issue up was to go outside and do some stretching excesizes when they went out to smoke....and again i got writtin up ...i then spoke to the HR  lad and explianed to her that i didnt think it fair that i was expected to pick up the slack for the amount of time that 9 other people decided to take...

quote:

Here's a really good blast of truth. Ever wonder why as of and to this day that cigarette package labels do not explicitely state: Will cause Cancer? Because they can't proove it. Oh they can say it might or maybe..same with low birth weight babies (of which I know persons who smoked the entire pregancy and had big ole fat chubby babies with no health issues). I would think that if any of this had been "prooven"..it damn sure would of been on a cigarette pack label by now dontcha think? 

quote:

Will even go so far as to say that if you can provide a link that all asthmatics are triggered into an attack as a result of second hand smoke?

quote:


Call me crazy but I'll take the documentation from the US Surgeon General, Journal of the American Medical Association, and the World Health Organization as pretty strong proof of the health problems associated with being exposed to secondhand smoke.

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

quote:


Call me crazy but I'll take the documentation from the US Surgeon General, Journal of the American Medical Association, and the World Health Organization as pretty strong proof of the health problems associated with being exposed to secondhand smoke.

How do those numbers stack up against Diesel Exhaust and Particulates?

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

quote:


Call me crazy but I'll take the documentation from the US Surgeon General, Journal of the American Medical Association, and the World Health Organization as pretty strong proof of the health problems associated with being exposed to secondhand smoke.

How do those numbers stack up against Diesel Exhaust and Particulates?