RE: Brand New Life

RE: Brand New Life (Full Version)

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SirKenin -> RE: Brand New Life (3/4/2005 8:25:58 PM)
Like I said, publishers do not establish credibility with any resource. Look at George Orwell's 1984 or many of Shakespeare's works. They are classics, but they are utter nonsense. Macbeth was absolute garbage. Yet they made it into print and still do to this day. Michael Moore would not know the truth about the events surrounding September 11 if it bit him in the nose, but people bought it in record numbers, making the piece of garbage millions of dollars. It is all about the almighty dollar and if you sound convincing you are in. Can you really make a valid argument for any single piece of BDSM literature that the publisher verified that the contents therein were true? Do you think they spent a decade in the lifestyle and therefore have earned the right to validate the integrity of the source? Are there any publisher resources that they can fall back on that denote that "this author is full of it, but this author here knows what they are talking about?" Where do you think the author references come from? Do you think the publisher pursues them? No, they do not. The author provides them. There is no established standard to evaluate the knowledge contained in a BDSM book. You could print absolutely anything and get away with it if you can make yourself sound convincing. This makes published works no more valid than electronic works, making the argument that printed works are the definitive resource void. Nobody is saying you have to choose randomly. I told you, take ALL the works available to you and extract the common denominators. Then, and only then, will you know the truth. Hopefully that helps clear things up a bit.

domtimothy46176 -> RE: Brand New Life (3/4/2005 8:50:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lilyfairye I am new to the lifestyle and looking for whatever advice I can get. What are some good ways to get started in the lifestyle? First of all, I agree with everything that was said about taking it slow and not letting yourself get carried away in a rising tide of excitement. People are people and liars aboud in every walk of life, bar none. Many so-called dominants specialize in victimizing new submissives. Secondly, the advice about educating yourself is dead on. Depending on your most efficient means of acquiring and internalizing new information, there is a plethora of resources available. There in countless website of sometimes useful and often contradictory information as well as many respected and plenty of desregarded published books available. My advice is to soak it all up, digest it and draw your own conclusions based on what makes the most sense to you personally. Thirdly, I advise every newbie i encounter to seek out a R/T munch or slosh and meet some real people. Nothing reinforces the fact that BDSM attracts all sizes shapes and flavors of foks like breaking bread with them in public. It'll be educational, I promise. You'll learn quickly that no two peope neccessarily see BDSM in precisely the same way and that it's OK to have your own ideas. That lil bit of knowledge should bring a lot of comfort further into your exploration and may just save you from some idiot trying to convince you that you aren't a "real submissive" if you don't do whatever task he's demanding of you. Finally, always remember this is about realizing a part of you that's integral to who and what you are and can be. If you settle for less than what you want and need you're selling yourself short. Be just as picky about your standards as you would with any other life-altering change, such as career or marriage and understand that a good potential partner will be just as picky as you are. Prepare yourself accordingly nad pay attention to what you have to offer as much as wat you expect to receive. Good luck in your explorations and be safe, Timothy

NoPinkBalloons -> RE: Brand New Life (3/4/2005 9:11:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SirKenin Look at George Orwell's 1984 or many of Shakespeare's works. They are classics, but they are utter nonsense. Macbeth was absolute garbage. Yet they made it into print and still do to this day. In case no one told you before...those are works of FICTION. They're supposed to be make believe. quote: Can you really make a valid argument for any single piece of BDSM literature that the publisher verified that the contents therein were true? Do you think they spent a decade in the lifestyle and therefore have earned the right to validate the integrity of the source? Are there any publisher resources that they can fall back on that denote that "this author is full of it, but this author here knows what they are talking about?" Where do you think the author references come from? Do you think the publisher pursues them? No, they do not. The author provides them. Two words: Greenery Press. quote: Hopefully that helps clear things up a bit. Indeed, it does. It makes it very clear that you haven't a clue what I'm talking about. 'Nuff said, I think.

SirKenin -> RE: Brand New Life (3/4/2005 10:57:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NoPinkBalloons In case no one told you before...those are works of FICTION. They're supposed to be make believe. They're still nonsense and they still made it to print. It appears that you intentionally ignored Michael Moore's work. That was presented as fact when to anybody that has any idea whatsoever of what really happened it was nothing but rubbish, yet not only was it produced, it sold like hotcakes and made millions and millions of dollars. I rest My case. quote: Two words: Greenery Press. Think again. Try Doubleday. Try Continuum International Publishing (who publishes BDSM books). Try Daedalus Publishing Company (who also publishes BDSM books). Try L. T. Publications Beverly Hills, CA (again, a publisher of BDSM books). you might also want to try The Random House Publishing Group (who publishes BDSM books). Prometheus Books. Mystic Rose Books. Simon & Schuster Adult Publishing Group. Llumina Press. Penguin Group (USA). All publishers of BDSM books. The Defense rests.

SherriA -> RE: Brand New Life (3/4/2005 11:28:09 PM)
I'll remind you what you said, in case you've already forgotten: quote: Can you really make a valid argument for any single piece of BDSM literature that the publisher verified that the contents therein were true? You asked specifically for ONE example in your post. I gave you one. Yeah, that's quite a defence you've mounted! BTW, several of the other publishers you've mentioned are well respected in "the scene" and do indeed make sure they're not publishing bull shit fantasy and passing it off as fact. I could have used several of them as the example you asked for. I gave the most obvious one, but certainly not the only one.

SirKenin -> RE: Brand New Life (3/5/2005 1:05:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SherriA I'll remind you what you said, in case you've already forgotten: quote: Can you really make a valid argument for any single piece of BDSM literature that the publisher verified that the contents therein were true? You asked specifically for ONE example in your post. I gave you one. Yeah, that's quite a defence you've mounted! BTW, several of the other publishers you've mentioned are well respected in "the scene" and do indeed make sure they're not publishing bull shit fantasy and passing it off as fact. I could have used several of them as the example you asked for. I gave the most obvious one, but certainly not the only one. Do you have to be so literal or do you think you can broaden your horizons just a little bit and think for yourself? Several of the publishers are indeed well respected in the scene and have published some popular books. However that in no way proves your point. you have yet to establish the publishers credibility in the scene nor the vehicle they utilize to establish credibility of the author and the reason for this is very simple. There is none. Thus My point stands. Publishing a printed work is no more valid nor demands any more respect than publishing an electronic one. I challenge you to prove that any one of those publishers has spent any significant amount of time in the scene and are therefore qualified to make a judgement call in regards to the credibility of the work in question. They have no reference point thus making qualification implausible. Further to this, the scene is as varied and unique as each and every individual in it. There is a distinct absence of set rules and there is no Definitive BDSM Rules RSO 1995. No one resource can be the definitive guide to BDSM and I challenge you to prove any different.

mistoferin -> RE: Brand New Life (3/5/2005 5:27:11 AM)
Wow this thread has gotten WAY off track!!! My advice to the original poster....READ all you can, go to EVERY website you can, TALK to every person you can. There is going to be a degree of BS in every avenue you take. By taking the time and educating yourself in ALL ways that you possibly can, it will soon become clear to you what is sound advice and what is just fluff. As with anything else in life, take what you can personally use, what feels right for you.....and discard the rest. Give yourself time, don't rush into a relationship until you feel that you have the basic knowledge to take that extra step. Most importantly remember....you will never know all there is to know about this....no one does. Keep an open mind and never stop learning.

SirKenin -> RE: Brand New Life (3/5/2005 12:25:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mistoferin Wow this thread has gotten WAY off track!!! Now that you mention it, I agree. I think I'm just going to let it rest as an agreement may very well never be reached. By the way, your advice is good.

lilyfairye -> RE: Brand New Life (3/8/2005 7:10:40 PM)
Can we not just all just focus on giving some good advice to us people who are new to the life instead of arguing amongst ourselves?

NoPinkBalloons -> RE: Brand New Life (3/8/2005 10:00:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lilyfairye Can we not just all just focus on giving some good advice to us people who are new to the life instead of arguing amongst ourselves? Discussing differing viewpoints is often very helpful, both to the people in the discussion because it can help them to clarify just what they think and why, and to those who are reading it because it can expose them to new perspectives and encourage them to think about how their own opinions are formed. We don't always all agree on just what "good advice" might be, and people will often point out what they feel is bad advice and why. That's productive and not something that should be discouraged, imnsho. Bottom line is that this is a discussion forum and discussions are going to happen here. If the people discussing things agree about absolutely everything, there's not going to be much to discuss, is there? Differeing viewpoints are a GOOD thing; censorship isn't. Fortunately, the admins and mods here are pretty good about encouraging the former and avoiding the latter whenever possible.

NoPinkBalloons -> RE: Brand New Life (3/8/2005 10:04:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SirKenin I challenge you to prove that any one of those publishers has spent any significant amount of time in the scene and are therefore qualified to make a judgement call in regards to the credibility of the work in question. Two words again: Greenery Press (or Janet Hardy, pick which ever two you prefer). quote: No one resource can be the definitive guide to BDSM and I challenge you to prove any different. I've never suggested that there was. In fact, if you'll look at my posting history you should see that I state quite regularly that there is no One True Way.

topcat -> RE: Brand New Life (3/9/2005 5:50:19 AM)
Midear Lily- Many here recommend reading- but I would really de-empathise it, and I really wouldn't lean too hard on meeting others, either. Both of these are great ideas if you want to find out what is working for others, but are just distractions to the real job at hand. I suggest some self assignments. Writing as though you were explaining this stuff to a distant friend, who didn't know anything about 'the scene' but was supportive of you, write a few essays, 500- 1000 words, focusing on what you want from this stuff, and why it works for you, what it is that you seek in a relationship, and how it would actually work in the day to day, and what you would be seeking in a partner- and what he'd be getting out of the deal. If you do have a distant, supportive friend, actually use them in this- or find some local person in the scene, who's judgement you'd trust, and who's approch to this stuff seems to align with what you think you might want, and ask them to read and comment on it. This is more to make you work a little harder at writing it- if you are just writing it with no intended reader, you likely won't work so hard at clarity<g>. But please do, before you start seeking what others think and desire, solidify what it is that you want and need from this stuff, and what you are ready to bring to the table. Saves alot of confusion and heartbreak, all around. Stay warm, Lawrence

TallDarkAndWitty -> RE: Brand New Life (3/9/2005 10:21:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: topcat Writing as though you were explaining this stuff to a distant friend, who didn't know anything about 'the scene' but was supportive of you, write a few essays, 500- 1000 words, focusing on what you want from this stuff, and why it works for you, what it is that you seek in a relationship, and how it would actually work in the day to day, and what you would be seeking in a partner- and what he'd be getting out of the deal. This is simply marvelous advice! I would add that many use this very message board to do a similar thing. I love to debate my style of domination with those who never seem to get it. I do this because explaining it in detail again and again really focuses my understanding of what I am and what I want. If you have no friend, find a thread that seems to ask a question that you find interesting. Answer that question from your point of view, bringing much of your own style and substance to the issue at hand. Really be open to exposing yourself, and take the responses as a way to further clarify your point,, not only to your audience, but to yourself. I have found this method to be amazingly helpful, though I didn't even realize it until Lawrence pointed it out. (That goes down as "Amazing Thought #3".) Taggard

FragileRose -> RE: Brand New Life (3/9/2005 10:48:27 AM)
I am just catching the gist of this debate and felt compelled to resond. My comments address the overall discussion rather than one person's ideas, so this is not meant as a criticism of anyone in particular. )By the way, it is beyond me why this dialogue has become so enflamed. Isn't the goal to share, rather than to obscure by engaging in confrontation.) I have worked in book publishing and know the book world. Many people now self publish their books! You can even purchase self-published books on Amazon. com. Having published a book does not in any way assure that it is accurate, has been fact checked, or has been written by someone who is an expert or experienced in a given area. A book, a Web site, a personal comment, a newspaper article - they are only as good as the person that has created them. Does anyone really believe at this point that everything in the Washington Post is accurate and has been fact checked? Or the New York Times? Think again. Recent scandals have revealed that even our foremost media outlets fail to review materials. There is no one way to find the truth, and no one truth. There are some safety precautions that are wise to practice and that will protect the Dominant and the Submissive. Books such as The Loving Dominant are helpful from an educational standpoint. People can arrive at some guidelines, conclusions, or wisdom by exposing themselves to as much information as possible from many sources. And, then, getting to know others in real time and sharing experiences and perspectives. It is not an overnight process - it takes time to figure out what makes sense for each person.

TallDarkAndWitty -> RE: Brand New Life (3/9/2005 11:45:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SirKenin Macbeth was absolute garbage. You don't really mean that, do you??? You were making some kind of sarcastic point, right??? "Out, out, brief candle! Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player that struts and frets his hour upon the stage and then is heard no more: it is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing." Macbeth Quote (Act V, Scene V). You, who likes to play with the shift key on your typewriter to...ummm...signify something. You, who caps the "m" of Me and spends time saying Y/your and T/they. You are going to call anything written by Shakespeare garbage... You just flipped the bozo bit... "Will all great Neptune's ocean wash this blood clean from my hand? No, this my hand will rather the multitudinous seas incarnadine, making the green one red" Macbeth Quote (Act II, Sc. II). The dude invented the word "incarnadine"...it didn't exist before he put pen to paper and then it did. Yeah...garbage. And 1984??? No wonder you like CastleRealm... Taggard

TallDarkAndWitty -> RE: Brand New Life (3/9/2005 11:48:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lilyfairye Can we not just all just focus on giving some good advice to us people who are new to the life instead of arguing amongst ourselves? Hell no!!! Wanna argue about it? wink

LadyTantalize -> RE: Brand New Life (3/9/2005 12:16:44 PM)
Well, as someone who has spent waaaaaay to much money on BDSM books, videos, DVD's and the likes, I will say that some were not worth the price I paid, some were pure unrealistic hogwash, some where mere attempts at porn charaded as BDSM, but some very enlightening and useful!! Some light fodder, some very useful for the beginner, some even producing food for thought for an old leather-codger like Me!! So, here's are some of My favorties: Books: SM 101 by Jay Wiseman Screw the Rose, Send Me the Thorns by Miller & Devon Different Loving by Dr. Gloria Brame To Love, To Obey, To Serve by Viola Johnson Videos/DVD: The Pain Game by Cleo DuBois (I worship at the alter Cleo - any video by her is a treat and chock full of enlightening knowledge!!!) Alternate Loving featuring excerpts with Dr. Gloria Brame, Master Doug and boy bob (a treat of a documentary featuring real-time lifestylers - very candid interviews!!) Anyhoooo, just a few of My favorites!!! I also highly suggest reading online info, but do take much with a grain of salt - as My motto is 75% of what you see, hear, read and even people you meet in the BDSM world are full of shit! chuckles But, it's that good 25% to be weeded out that are so worth the effort. Also, the suggestion to attend munches is the BEST advice for newbies!! I host a local munch here and I can attest to how valuable munches are in speaking with others who live the lifestyle, and being in a discrete environment allowing the optimum in comfort for those just starting out in BDSM.

SirKenin -> RE: Brand New Life (3/9/2005 12:45:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TallDarkAndWitty quote: ORIGINAL: SirKenin Macbeth was absolute garbage. You don't really mean that, do you??? You were making some kind of sarcastic point, right??? "Out, out, brief candle! Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player that struts and frets his hour upon the stage and then is heard no more: it is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing." Macbeth Quote (Act V, Scene V). You, who likes to play with the shift key on your typewriter to...ummm...signify something. You, who caps the "m" of Me and spends time saying Y/your and T/they. You are going to call anything written by Shakespeare garbage... You just flipped the bozo bit... "Will all great Neptune's ocean wash this blood clean from my hand? No, this my hand will rather the multitudinous seas incarnadine, making the green one red" Macbeth Quote (Act II, Sc. II). The dude invented the word "incarnadine"...it didn't exist before he put pen to paper and then it did. Yeah...garbage. And 1984??? No wonder you like CastleRealm... Taggard Hahaha. I absolutely loved this post. Do not ask Me why, I have no idea. I just did. Shame I just caught it now. I hated Macbeth. Total drivel. Some of his plays were sheer genius, but that was not one of them in My opinion. 1984? I found it to be a joke and an absolute snore to read. I could not stand that drivel. Long live the shift key! Amen. [sm=lol.gif]

TallDarkAndWitty -> RE: Brand New Life (3/9/2005 1:20:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SirKenin I hated Macbeth. Total drivel. Dude, do you understand the difference between not appreciating something and something being total drivel? If you had bashed Titus Andronicus, I would have let it slide. But Mac-freaking-beth??? All I can say is at least you didn't pick Hamlet. laughing Macbeth is one of the most respected dramas of western civilization. It is one of the most often quoted and produced plays in the history of man. Do you have any idea of the number of every day idioms we use that come from that play??? "I bear a charmed life". Macbeth Quote (Act V, Sc. VIII). "Yet do I fear thy nature; It is too full o' the milk of human kindness." Macbeth Quote (Act I, Scene V). "Double, double toil and trouble; Fire burn, and cauldron bubble." Macbeth Quote (Act IV, Scene I). "Out, damned spot! out, I say!" - ( Quote Act V, Scene I). Saying you think Macbeth is drivel says much more about you then it does about Shakespeare. Taggard

Alexander -> RE: Brand New Life (3/9/2005 1:26:42 PM)
By the law of equivalency macbeth and michael moore are now on par with one another in the posters mind. fascinating.

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