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What is SSC? - 3/7/2005 1:02:32 PM   
nella


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What is SSC?
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RE: What is SSC? - 3/7/2005 1:03:37 PM   
mistoferin


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Safe, Sane and Consensual

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

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RE: What is SSC? - 3/7/2005 1:14:38 PM   
EmeraldSlave2


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A nifty credo to help convince vanillas we're not really nasty bad evil wrong and something that people in the scene can arbitrarily throw at things they don't like/understand and consider bad.

Oh, and something a dom can use to sound impressive.

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RE: What is SSC? - 3/7/2005 1:23:53 PM   
LadyTantalize


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And for further research into the subject.......


http://www.leathernroses.com/generalbdsm/generalbdsm.htm
http://www.leathernroses.com/generalbdsm/sscinenslavement.htm
http://www.leathernroses.com/generalbdsm/medlinssc.htm
http://www.leathernroses.com/generalbdsm/garyswitchrack.htm






_____________________________

Truly, Lady T.

Lady Tatiana Tantalize
Atlanta's Sadistic Southern Belle, Crossdressing Consultant, Punk-Rock Party Girl and Wicked SugarPuss
http://www.ladytantalize.net

"A prayer for the wild at heart, kept in cages."
-Tennessee William

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RE: What is SSC? - 3/7/2005 1:45:38 PM   
MsCameron


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From: Ontario, Canada
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My personal favorite:

Laura Antoniou- Unsafe at any speed.

http://www.sexuality.org/latrans.html


A different perspective worth the read. Enjoy :)

MsC



< Message edited by MsCameron -- 3/8/2005 6:52:25 AM >


_____________________________

I'm reaching for the random or what ever will bewilder me.
And following our will and wind we may just go where no one's been.
We'll ride the spiral to the end and may just go where no one's been.
Spiral out. Keep going, going...
Lateralis.Tool

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RE: What is SSC? - 3/7/2005 2:24:50 PM   
nella


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Oh thanks, i feel real dumbh now but i am not good whit shortend words. I have a bit of problems whit luanguage so i did not get it that it was Safe Sane Consensual. Thaks for the info.

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RE: What is SSC? - 3/7/2005 4:49:13 PM   
NoPinkBalloons


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I always suggest that anyone talking about SSC read this article by david stein (who originally came up with the slogan "safe, sane, and consensual"). You can find "Safe Sane and Consensual - The Evolution of a Shibboleth" here: http://www.lthredge.com/ds/ssc.pdf



< Message edited by NoPinkBalloons -- 3/7/2005 6:01:27 PM >


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A hard-on does NOT count as personal growth

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RE: What is SSC? - 3/7/2005 5:43:03 PM   
MidnightWriter


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quote:

ORIGINAL: nella
What is SSC?


A nifty phrase with a high positive index and very little real meaning. Which is just a fancy way of saying that it sounds great, but that it really doesn't mean much of anything. Three little words, used so often, with so little thought. Let's analyze the phrase, word by word, shall we?

Safe - we all know what safe means. Nobody's ever actually seen "safe" outside of a baseball umpire's call, but we all know what it means - or, at least, what's not safe. Autoerotic asyphixiation is unsafe, enemas that contain a quart of bourbon are unsafe, and unprotected intercourse with someone who is carrying the HIV virus is unsafe. Flogging is reasonably safe, sort of - but I've seen people flog kidneys and bellies because they didn't know any better, I've seen skilled people miss the mark (as I do myself every now and again), and I've even seen a heavy flogger go flying because a grip slipped - a simple accident. So, maybe flogging isn't as safe as it seems.

Paddling and spanking - those should be safe. Unless someone gets a bit heavy-handed and strikes too close to the tailbone, cracking it - and while I haven't seen that happen, I have talked with someone who was recovering from just such an injury. She'd received the injury at the hands of her long-term partner, who was generally highly regarded - he wasn't a clueless top. Stuff happens.

Bondage - that should be safe, right? Mostly, it doesn't hurt anyone - but I was DM at a dungeon about a year ago when a big, strong guy was bound with his wrists above him - not even close to suspension, just a vertical spreadeagle. A damn good domme - his wife - was flogging him. Nothing for anyone to get excited about, until his knee popped loose - no damage, just would have been a stumble if he'd been walking. Unfortunately, it dislocated his shoulder. Nobody's fault, nothing "dangerous" was being done - but it necessitated a trip to the ER and a long, painful healing period. Feces occurs, and sometimes it happens to people who know what they're doing.

Well, okay - let's let actual BDSM activities out of it - those people are nuts anyway. Standing on the sidewalk outside of a dungeon should be safe - but it's not. People die in the U.S. every year from just standing on the sidewalk. Car accidents account for most of these fatalities, and I imagine a few are killed in gang warfare (targets or not). Things fall from buildings.

Staying home in bed should be safe - but again, there are accidents every year that cause injury or death to someone home in their bed - and not all of them are from acrobatic sex.

There is no certain safety this side of the grave - not anywhere, not for anyone. For anyone to claim that anything is absolutely safe is absurd. But absolute safety is not what's generally talked about - it's relative safety that they mean when they say "he's unsafe with that singletail" or "I felt so safe in that japanese bondage harness". Thus, the question becomes, how much relative safety do you need to judge something as "safe enough"?

Everyone answers that question for themselves, and where they draw the line varies widely - what's safe enough for me may not be safe enough for you, and what's safe enough for Mortimer may give me the willies. So, unless you know exactly who you're talking about, and where they draw their "safe enough" line, the word "safe", as regards BDSM activity, really doesn't mean anything - and if you do know where a particular line is drawn, the word only applies to them - it can't apply to everyone.

So, "safe" is a very pretty-sounding word - but all by itself, it either can't exist or has no clear definition - so it really doesn't mean anything.

Sane - now, there's a word that feels right. Unfortunately, the psychiatric profession doesn't use the word any more, because it's a useless measurement. Almost everyone has a deviation from what used to be considered "sane" - a neurosis, a fetish, a phillia (unreasoned fear of ____), an aversion or fascination with something that makes them atypical. "Sanity", per se, doesn't exist.

There's another perfectly good-sounding word that doesn't really mean anything. This leaves us with consensual.

I won't go on at length about the grey areas, such as consensual non-consent, retroactive consent, uninformed consent - that'd be another long article all by itself. Let's stick with the obvious and clear - simple consent. Someone gets clear, unambiguous agreement that _____ seems like a good idea, so let's do it. It may end in disaster, it may end up in something so glorious that it seems the whole countryside should have a cigarette afterward - but it's clear that every participant was there because they'd decided to be there.

Consent can be debatable, but it can also be clear and unambiguous - so that's the only word in that phrase that can possibly mean a damn thing. Consent is the one guideline that TIES acknowledges - and it seems to work okay for everyone.

Safe, Sane, Consensual - it's two-thirds meaningless noise, but it sure does sound pretty to the newbies and the 'nillas.

_____________________________

Power corrupts. Absolute power ... is really pretty nifty.

TIES - pansexual BDSM social group in MN, USA - http://www.ties-bdsm.org

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RE: What is SSC? - 3/7/2005 5:44:06 PM   
MidnightWriter


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I dunno how it duplicated - my oops.

< Message edited by MidnightWriter -- 3/8/2005 5:23:16 AM >


_____________________________

Power corrupts. Absolute power ... is really pretty nifty.

TIES - pansexual BDSM social group in MN, USA - http://www.ties-bdsm.org

(in reply to nella)
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RE: What is SSC? - 3/7/2005 9:33:23 PM   
GentleLady


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Thank you MidnightWriter for reminding Me that many words have 'slippery' meanings and that there are other ways of looking at things. I would appreciate learning what TIES stands for.

I do disagree with you though that
quote:

Safe, Sane, Consensual - it's two-thirds meaningless noise, but it sure does sound pretty to the newbies and the 'nillas.
The words safe and sane have a personal meaning for Me and I make sure that those I play with agree with Me on the meanings for these terms because I believe the meanings to be created out of one's personal experiences in life and beliefs. Even when the meanings are personal to Me alone, that does not make the word meaningless. It means that discussion as to the terminology being used must be entered into.

When I was new, SSC kept Me from going overboard. Within My previous vanilla relationships the phrase had no meaning whatsoever. Nothing I was involved in could have been considered either safe, sane, or consensual....no matter how one defines those terms. Now the phrase reminds Me to monitor My activities and makes a great starting point for discussion and negotiation with the submissives I encounter.

Gentle Lady


_____________________________

All things are possible to those who have patience, try, and are willing to learn.

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RE: What is SSC? - 3/8/2005 1:54:30 AM   
darkinshadows


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Agrees with MidnightWriter.

SSC is a feel good word which can aid people in the begining, but like all labels, eventually becomes restrictive.

Mother always said, dont play with knives and don't put anything in ones mouth that could choke you.
One mans sane is another mans madness.

The only two essentials in my understanding of BDSM is
Consensuality
Trust

Without either of those, a relationship is just abuse.


_____________________________


.dark.




...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

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RE: What is SSC? - 3/8/2005 6:09:48 AM   
MidnightWriter


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GentleLady

Thank you MidnightWriter for reminding Me that many words have 'slippery' meanings and that there are other ways of looking at things. I would appreciate learning what TIES stands for.

TIES is an acronym for Tremendously Intense Erotic Situations - one of a half-dozen or so phrases I came up with when the group was founded. The original intent was to rotate the phrases on a regular basis, but I lost the file with the phrases, and it seemed unimportant and silly at the time, and I got lazy about it.

If your question was more general/practical in nature, TIES stands for a venue where consent is the only strict guideline; a series of events where the members of other clubs gather to meet, swap information about upcoming events, and enjoy the largest, most inclusive munches in the 5-state area. We host munches, playparties, the occasional educational event, and are trying to find a hotel for a convention.

quote:

I do disagree with you though that
quote:

Safe, Sane, Consensual - it's two-thirds meaningless noise, but it sure does sound pretty to the newbies and the 'nillas.
The words safe and sane have a personal meaning for Me and I make sure that those I play with agree with Me on the meanings for these terms because I believe the meanings to be created out of one's personal experiences in life and beliefs. Even when the meanings are personal to Me alone, that does not make the word meaningless. It means that discussion as to the terminology being used must be entered into.

When I was new, SSC kept Me from going overboard. Within My previous vanilla relationships the phrase had no meaning whatsoever. Nothing I was involved in could have been considered either safe, sane, or consensual....no matter how one defines those terms. Now the phrase reminds Me to monitor My activities and makes a great starting point for discussion and negotiation with the submissives I encounter.


You have a point - I expect that everyone here is as safe and as sane as they wish to be in their activities. For myself, I've also got lines drawn for safety and sanity.

But those words don't tell you where my guidelines are drawn, nor can I guess what things you consider safe and sane, or what you'd think unsafe or insane.

They're a worthwhile topic to explore with people you'll be sharing experiences with, by all means. But while I expect that you stay within activities that you consider safe & sane, and (hopefully) you can assume that I stay within my judgement of what's safe enough and sane enough - the words, without further information, really don't mean anything.

My across-the-street neighbor, whose English is only marginally better than my own abysmal Spanish, has probably never even heard of that phrase, yet I expect that he doesn't try things that he views to be unsafe or insane - nor does your neighbor.

The (expletive deleted) who poisoned the Tylenol bottles many years ago, leading to a world where everything must be sealed for your protection, ramping up the paranoia in our society, was acting within their own guidelines of safety and sanity. I have no idea of why they did that - but they had a reason, and it seemed safe enough and sane enough to them. I expect that they knew that they were violating consent - but I don't believe that this mattered to them.

If a word means different things to everyone, then it has little use in communication - it needs other words to convey meaning, and those other words (such as "I don't want to singletail anyone's eyes") don't need the buzzword.

It's the folks who act as if those buzzwords had a unversal meaning, applicable to everyone, that frighten me - because when they decry someone else's activities as being outside of the guidelines of "safe" or "sane", they're ignoring the third word - the one that does have clear meaning. They themselves rarely see this - but most of us are here in spite of others' guidelines for what's okay or not okay to do, because we don't consent to accept those guidelines for our own lives. That they can ignore society's typical guidelines for what is safe and sane, yet insist upon imposing their own guidelines, is the worst (and, unhappily, most common) application of that phrase.

_____________________________

Power corrupts. Absolute power ... is really pretty nifty.

TIES - pansexual BDSM social group in MN, USA - http://www.ties-bdsm.org

(in reply to GentleLady)
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RE: What is SSC? - 3/8/2005 5:42:32 PM   
GentleLady


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quote:

They're a worthwhile topic to explore with people you'll be sharing experiences with, by all means. But while I expect that you stay within activities that you consider safe & sane, and (hopefully) you can assume that I stay within my judgement of what's safe enough and sane enough - the words, without further information, really don't mean anything.


100 % agreement about that. My intention was to point out that words do have contextual meaning even when they do not have a clear meaning.

quote:

If a word means different things to everyone, then it has little use in communication - it needs other words to convey meaning, and those other words (such as "I don't want to singletail anyone's eyes") don't need the buzzword.


It has been My experience so far that a lot more words then people realize mean different things to different people. So one of the first things I do when I want to try and communicate a concept is to define the meaning behind certain words. And then arrive at mutally agreed upon meaning for ambiguous words.

And yes, when people assign a universal meaning to words and then insist that everyone else abide by that meaning it scares Me. Meanings are culturally driven enough without individuals arbitrarily adding restrictions to them.

*soft smile*....I was not disagreeing with anything You said but I did want to add that words can have personal meanings that are valid even when the universal meaning has been lost. If people communicated more and spoke less, fewer statements would be misunderstood (I hope). I fear I am still naive enough to hope that people are better then I know them to be.

Gentle Lady


_____________________________

All things are possible to those who have patience, try, and are willing to learn.

(in reply to MidnightWriter)
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