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RE: Sadism - 6/4/2004 11:27:18 PM

Sinergy

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You can buy superglue remover, so getting her nose unstuck was not that much of a problem.

According to an old girlfriend working on her PhD in chemistry, the decaffeinate coffee with an acetone derivative...

Sinergy

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"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

(in reply to Estring)

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Post #: 21

RE: Sadism - 6/26/2004 3:20:00 PM

sadistic

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For some reason I've never even thought of playing with glue, despite having many an accident with it fixing things myself.

I guess i've been too worried about practical concerns such as the small amount of fumes, or damage such as wripped skin.

But now I'm desperately keen to experiment...

Thanks for the idea.

Sadistic

(in reply to Sinergy)

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Post #: 22

RE: Sadism - 7/4/2004 1:57:17 PM

QUIETMASTER

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People fear the unknown. Knowledge will replace that fear with the ability to understand what bothers you about it. Many have experienced what you are dealing with so don't let this confusion cloud your mind.
Because the one you care for claims to be a sadist, do you or for that matter he know to what extent he is a sadist?
What is it that drives you away from him? Fear of pain, not trusting him with that kind of control, or not knowing what to expect? There are a lot of questions to ask and answer before giving up on him and yourself. The first thing is to look inside your mind and heart and find what it is that you need to know and ask. Then go to him him and provide him the oppurtunity to respond. He may even be willing to temper some of his desires for you. There is another thing to consider. There are those who consider themselves sadistic but when faced with the reality of actually doing what they fantasize cannot actually do the deed. Hope this helps. If I was not clear in what I was trying to say, let me know and I will try and explain better. Bob

(in reply to lacesundone)

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RE: Sadism - 7/7/2004 8:55:52 AM

Leonidas

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The answer is far more straightforward than most of what I've seen here. A sadist, as someone pointed out, is someone who gets sexual gratification from inflicting mental or physical pain. The simple questsion that you have to answer is whether being on the recieving end of that holds any reciprocal sexual charge for you. Do you get sexually excited thinking about this man hurting you? A step further, are you sexually gratified when he does hurt you? If the answers to those questions are no, and you are submitting to that kind of treatment because you are infatuated with / in love with / bonded to your tormentor, you are signing up for abuse. Don't do that. You do not want to wake up years from now believing that you are worthless, weak, and deserve no better.

The question of whether you are a slave isn't particularly relevant to your other question. It certainly sounds as if you find yourself in a form of mental/emotional bondage to this man, but that happens to people of just about every stripe from time to time. Sort out your other question first. It is more pressing.

Take care of yourself.

Leonidas

< Message edited by Leonidas -- 7/7/2004 8:57:23 AM >

(in reply to Sinergy)

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RE: Sadism - 7/7/2004 11:25:26 AM

Sinergy

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Hello,

Superglue was used during the Vietnam war for emergency field dressings. It may have been slightly different than what you buy at Home Depot, but similar. It has the added bonus of sterilizing anything it comes in contact with...

I once cut a rather large cut (would have taken 4 stitches to close) in my thumb while cooking. I put a tourniquet on it to staunch the blood flow for the 30 seconds I needed, super glued the wound shut, took the tourniquet off, put a bandaid with neosporin on it.

End of story, really. It didnt bleed after that, the super glued skin grew out and flaked off a few weeks later.

Im not recommending others do this, but it worked quite well in the moment and saved me a trip to the emergency room for sutures. I have since purchased a suturing kit to keep on-hand. I wont stitch you up, but I have things to do and waiting 3 hours in an ER for somebody else to give me 2 stitches I can give myself isnt high on my to-do list.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

(in reply to Leonidas)

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RE: Sadism - 7/7/2004 11:51:03 AM

MrThorns

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quote:

ORIGINAL: lacesundone

I have been informed by previous Master that He has discovered His own nature is that of a Sadist.

I guess I don't understand the problem here. When you entered into the relationship with him, you didn't negotiate sadism/masochism? Or perhaps you only wanted him as a sensual play partner? I have argued that all Tops/Dominants/Masters....whatever label you choose...have sadistic tendencies. He seems to be wanting to explore his sadistic side a bit further. I don't see how this growth could possibly be a bad thing.

~Thorns

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RE: Sadism - 7/7/2004 2:45:42 PM

TheSadisticOne

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I have to agree with Estring on this one laces . . . how you view yourself and your inner strength is inconsequential...it is that very strength that is the essence of your gift of surrender and the depth of your devotion to Him. your Master holds captive a part of your soul that you have NO control over and it will always, ultimately, take you back to Him. the 'substitutes' have obviously fallen well short of His mark and the craving that He has created in you for Him will only strengthen as you struggle against it. there are NO easy answers here laces . . . sometimes the bonds that W/we form in this lifestyle defy reason and understanding and can not be broken no matter how hard W/we may try. you may need to endure a deeper pain in order to allow yourself to gain the perspective necessary to leave Him, if in fact that is what you want to do. I sense that you are more than willing to accept His callling and provide Him with the vessel to satiate His needs . . . that being the case...your path has already been decided . . . your fear of the unknown path ahead is the only thing that seems to be holding you back.

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RE: Sadism - 7/7/2004 4:12:42 PM

Leonidas

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Yeah, OK. To the last two posts I can only say "crap" and "bordering on dangerous crap if the attempt at svengali-esque psycho-babble weren't so damn funny".

To say that all dominants have sadistic tendencies may neatly fit your version of the world, but it just ain't so, joe. Dominance, and the complementary desire to submit to domination, are a pervasive part of the human condition that play themselves out every day, even among people who have little or no exposure to BDSM, never set foot in a dungeon, or amassed a wall full of very impressive toys. Sadism is a very specific sexual kink, namely the experience of sexual pleasure when inflicting pain or mental anguish on someone else. Not only is it possible to be a dominant wired human being without being sadistic, most such people on the planet almost certainly aren't. It is also very possible, and even common, to be the dominant party in a D/s relationship without taking sexual pleasure in the infliction of pain, even if corporal punishment is part of the relationship.

The original poster stated clearly that the man in question has just gotten in touch with his "sadistic side". Her post strongly suggests that she wants no part of that. It is something that she'll have to sort out for herself, to be sure, but to suggest that submitting to sadism is somehow necessarily "growth" or that her path to it has been "clearly decided" because she had formed an emotional attachment to this man prior to his discovery that he is sadistic is just plain wrong. Sado-Masochism is only ethical when you have a sadist and a masochist involved. Otherwise, it is an abuser and an abusee. Bottom line, if this woman isn't a masochist, she needs to run like hell, and she could probably use a little support in that process.

Take care of yourselves.

Leonidas

(in reply to TheSadisticOne)

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RE: Sadism - 7/7/2004 11:16:00 PM

MrThorns

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Leonidas

Yeah, OK. To the last two posts I can only say "crap" and "bordering on dangerous crap if the attempt at svengali-esque psycho-babble weren't so damn funny".

To say that all dominants have sadistic tendencies may neatly fit your version of the world, but it just ain't so, joe.

How many play parties have you been to that do not involve bondage, humiliation, spankings, floggings, tickling, wax, blades, needles, whips, chains, etc etc.? I have yet to see a scene where a dominant simply sits comfortably and watches a submissive be...well...submissive. At some level, sadism exists in every scene we construct. Orgasm denial...sadism. Humiliation in all its forms...sadisim. Give me an example of a form of play, and I will be happy to show you how it is sadistic....both in my "version of the world" as well as yours.

Now granted, sadism literally means taking pleasure in harming or abusing others. Within this community, we do not condone abuse, nor do we wish to harm the ones we have relationships with. So the term has been somewhat modified to suit our purposes. Nevertheless, sadism exists in every real time D/s relationship I have ever seen or heard of. Feel free to post an example of exactly how this is "crap", instead of simply making an unsupported statement...

As far as growth through sadism, I was referring to the dominant in question.

laces, as far as continuing the relationship...or escaping it, rather...do what you feel is the right thing to do. Have you negotiated with him, stating very clearly that you do not wish to experience the forms of sadism he wants to experience with you? If he's not willing to accept that, or if you're not willing to follow him on the path he has chosen for himself...then moving on seems like the best course of action. Go with your instincts and be honest with him as well as with yourself.

~Thorns

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RE: Sadism - 7/8/2004 12:10:34 AM

Leonidas

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Well, first, I don't do scene play, and I don't go to play parties. There are a great many people who don't. I don't doubt that you have never seen a constructed scene that did not have at least some sadistic overtone. Orgasm denial for its own sake might be sadistic, especially if that is your intent. Orgasm control within the context of a TPE style relationship often is a completely different matter. In the context of such a relationship, orgasm control is just that, an expression of control and ownership and submission to same. It has nothing to do with sadism. Similarly, it would never occur to me to humilliate a slave just for the thrill of doing so. If I verbally remind a slave of their place, it is just that, reminding them of their place. If I spank or whip a slave, it isn't playing, and the act in and of itself isn't even sexual. It is to discipline them, or on rarer occasions, to remind them that they are subject to discipline. The way that I train, keep, and treat a slave is purposeful, and from the perspective of an owner, almost always carries the motivation of increasing the slave's value.

So, you see, your world of play parties and humilliation/spanking/flogging/waxing/etc etc etc scenes is quite removed from mine, and I am far from alone. Maybe it's time to entertain the notion that there might be more to this lifestyle than those things to which you have been exposed.

I am pleased that you saw fit to clarify or revise your original statement. The original certainly looked to me like "hey, what's the big deal, every dom is sadistic, why don't you get with the program?". If you re-read what you wrote, maybe you can see how one might get that impression, and come to a conclusion along the lines of "crap".

Take care of yourself.

Leonidas

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RE: Sadism - 7/8/2004 8:54:48 PM

Sinergy

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I have to side with Leonidas on this one.

The issue is not whether he is a good Sadist, whether he goes to play parties, etc.

The issue is whether the slave / submissive signed on for this tour of duty when the two of them originally negotiated their relationship, and it does not sound like she did. For a Master to change the rules mid-stream on his slave and indicate that because she is a slave she should go along with it IS (my opinion) abusive.

If he is allowed to renegotiate the terms of their slavery, so is she. Otherwise it is not consensual.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

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RE: Sadism - 7/8/2004 11:04:04 PM

MrThorns

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And I totally agree that changing the rules in mid-relationship without any consent from her is extremely bad form and can be abusive. The point I was getting at, (as there wasn't really any information from the original poster other than her master has discovered that he is a sadist) is that it appears to me that sadism exists in all D/s relationships at one degree or another...so what is it about his particular brand of sadism that she doesnt want to be a part of? Is her Master attempting to push past some hard limits? Is he wanting to play with extreme pain? Is he wanting to be a sadistic tickler? There's no information here. I wont jump to the conclusion that he is being abusive, but I won't rule it out, either. To encourage her to run from this man that she seems to care very deeply about seems to be very hastily given.

~Thorns

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RE: Sadism - 7/9/2004 2:31:21 PM

TheSadisticOne

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quote:

One minute i am considering leaving the lifestyle behind completely, and in the next, i am wondering if i am trying to escape an inevitable pathway, because it is unknown to me.
my best

Leonides, first...there is NO crap being flung here...a free exchange of diversity in thought might be more applicable an appropriate. My response to laces was based in part on this closing statement of hers. I would never agree with a Master/Dom/Domme changing the rules mid stream and expecting their sub/slave to blindly follow . . . that IS crap and irresponsible. through laces indecision about the situation, I sensed a part of here that was drawn to her masochistic side. My response attempted to offer her that view. if she fully understands what it is to be a masochist and is comfortable with all that it implies and offers her, why shouldn't she follow her Master. it was never stated to what degree her Masters 'sadistic nature' had been explored or developed and there actually might be harmony found between these two...sadism is only a label and W/we all do share that kink to a degree. I heard no mention of any shared activities that she found uncomfortable. the diversity in levels and intensity of both sadism and masochism might be more of the issue...His need for inflicting pain may bear no relation to yours or mine and My gut feeling is that if He is exploring a new found inner need, it is far less severe than W/we are making it here. I personally would like to know if laces has ever felt uncomfortable with her Masters actions...if the answer to this is yes, then the deeper evaluations would certainly apply and I would strongly suggest that she put some time and distance between them, to put her emotions in perspective and allow for the greiving process to run its course. the only absolute that I see here is that laces continue to talk about it, taking what applies to her and filter the rest.

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RE: Sadism - 7/9/2004 2:51:21 PM

Leonidas

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Ahhh. Ok, so when you said:

quote:

your Master holds captive a part of your soul that you have NO control over and it will always, ultimately, take you back to Him. the 'substitutes' have obviously fallen well short of His mark and the craving that He has created in you for Him will only strengthen as you struggle against it.

and

quote:

sometimes the bonds that W/we form in this lifestyle defy reason and understanding and can not be broken no matter how hard W/we may try. you may need to endure a deeper pain in order to allow yourself to gain the perspective necessary to leave Him, if in fact that is what you want to do

I misunderstood you to mean that her submission to his newfound kink was inevitable, and she might as well just go along. Thank you for clearing that up.

Take care of yourself

Leonidas

(in reply to TheSadisticOne)

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