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When can a slave leave? - 5/16/2004 5:47:51 AM

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Joined: 1/1/2004
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Legally, whenever they damn well want to. What part of "consent" is unclear?

Morally it can be different. I think if the Master/Mistress changes the "protocol" be damned.

If things are going along swimmingly in a light BDSM setting and the Master/Mistress says, "I've decided I'm a sadist. You will become my pain slut."

If the Master/Mistress does not release the slave who did not sign on to be a painslut, they are without honor. Some will say "protocol" demands the slave stay. I say if "protocol" demands that the "protocol" is an ass.

Was that strong enough to get people to disagree with me?

How about a milder example? Let's say two people are in a loving D/S relationship where he is her "owner". They are not poly, or Gorean, but his word is law. Then he decides he wants her to never orgasm again as he will be giving orgasms to his new slave only.

Does she have a right to leave him if she is not released? Or was he just "stretching her limits"?

_____________________________

When the Lady smiles i can't resist her call. As a matter of fact, i don't resist at all. Well that depends if it is a smile or a grimmace.

RE: When can a slave leave? - 5/16/2004 7:36:36 AM

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The number one rule in any Alternate Lifestyle is
H O N O R
The number two rule in any Alternate Lifestyle is
I N T E G R I T Y
The number three rule in any Alternate Lifestyle is
T R U S T
The number four rule in any Alternate Lifestyle is
T O T A L L Y O P E N C O M U N I C A T I O N
The number five rule in any Alternate Lifestyle is
S.S.C S A F E S A N E C O N S E N S U A L

If any of these 5 BASIC laws of Alternate Living are
broken the One breaking them is NOT living up to
their chosen Lifestyles Positions Rules, Regulations and
Proticals hence They are NOT what I would concider
to be of anyone whom would be a part of MY BDSM
and these are grounds for either to leave the relationship,
contract, scene and this is regardless if a Dominant or suplicant.
JMO

(in reply to iwillserveu)

RE: When can a slave leave? - 5/16/2004 7:39:11 AM

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Joined: 1/1/2004
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keep in mind however
that if a contract was
signed you could be
called to court
for breach of this
contract if it is in
any way a legally
binding contract
you have signed.

(in reply to MistressDREAD)

RE: When can a slave leave? - 5/16/2004 7:42:25 AM

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Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

hmmm now why
do you have a
need for sumone
to disagree with
you iwillserveu?
do you want to
be deemed a bad
boy so you can gain
sum kind of form or
punishment?hmmm.

(in reply to MistressDREAD)

RE: When can a slave leave? - 5/16/2004 7:54:11 AM

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Joined: 5/15/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressDREAD

keep in mind however
that if a contract was
signed you could be
called to court
for breach of this
contract if it is in
any way a legally
binding contract
you have signed.

LMAO D/s and BDSM contracts are not legal and binding.Call any court in the US and they would laugh at you.So I hope your in to humiliation.Cause they are going to laugh you right off the phone.

(in reply to MistressDREAD)

RE: When can a slave leave? - 5/16/2004 9:06:20 AM

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Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

Actually no. I have tried, but conversations with myself tend to be one sided.

_____________________________

When the Lady smiles i can't resist her call. As a matter of fact, i don't resist at all. Well that depends if it is a smile or a grimmace.

(in reply to MistressDREAD)

RE: When can a slave leave? - 5/16/2004 9:12:16 AM

Posts: 765
Joined: 5/10/2004
From: New Castle, PA
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quote:

</forum/micons/m1.gif> When can a slave leave?

first for a definition of terms (my own), covering both contracted and non contracted;

slave - no limits, no safeword, cannot own property of any kind, only has 1 right

sub - limits (hard and soft), safeword, retains ownership of her property,
retains full rights

the one right that the slave retains is the right of release - the slave can, at any time and for any reason, ask for release - the Master is required to grant release, but has no further obligation - he does not have to return any of the slaves former property, does not have to provide her with clothing or money or anything but her freedom, can, in fact, if he wishes, turn her out naked in the middle of the street (not that I would, nor have i ever heard of anyone doing so - most I have heard of provided some form of sustenance to get her started)

it may sound harsh and that is why i needed to differentiate between a slave and a sub before i started

so, my answer to your question is - whenever they damn well want to

_____________________________

Apply Usual Caveats Here

An expert is somone who has made all the mistakes there are to be made

(in reply to iwillserveu)

RE: When can a slave leave? - 5/16/2004 11:48:14 AM

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Joined: 1/1/2004
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It seems iwill has a chastity fetish and Dread has a contract fetish. A slave may give themselves to you, but in reality, the only thing holding them there is their desire to serve you. If that changes, they will leave. Chastity belts or contracts notwithstanding.

(in reply to Thanatosian)

RE: When can a slave leave? - 5/16/2004 11:59:03 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Estring
A slave may give themselves to you, but in reality, the only thing holding them there is their desire to serve you.

Often referred to as Internal Enslavement (IE)... regardless of fetish or signed contract/agreement... the tie that binds is actually within the slave's mind.

Inyouagain

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Careful with that axe, Eugene

(in reply to Estring)

RE: When can a slave leave? - 5/16/2004 4:13:34 PM

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Joined: 1/1/2004
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LOL SORRY
MzICEY
hope YOUR into
Humiliation too
as I have brought
three contracts
to court and had
them upheld in a
court of law and
was payed hansumly
I might add. Read
My words again
and understand them
fully and get cha FACTS
straight befor YOUR tempt
at humiliation Dearie.
Sum of US Dominants
are LAW and BUSINESS
SAVVY. Get a clue.......

(in reply to inyouagain)

RE: When can a slave leave? - 5/16/2004 4:21:14 PM

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Joined: 1/1/2004
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The question was
WHEN
can a slave leave.
I think My words
address that question

quote:

If any of these 5 BASIC laws of Alternate Living are
broken the One breaking them is NOT living up to
their chosen Lifestyles Positions Rules, Regulations and
Proticals hence They are NOT what I would concider
to be of anyone whom would be a part of MY BDSM
and these are grounds for either to leave the relationship,
contract, scene and this is regardless if a Dominant or suplicant.
JMO

Thanatosians words ring true to these words also

(in reply to MistressDREAD)

RE: When can a slave leave? - 5/16/2004 4:32:37 PM

Posts: 841
Joined: 1/1/2004
From: Santiago, Chile
Status: offline

A few thoughts...

First, any type of indentured service contract (in the united states) is completely illegal. You cannot legally be held as a slave, and such contracts would not only be voided, but in extreme circumstances, could result in criminal charges for kidnapping or slavery. As I am at a cyber cafe in Santiago Chile, I'll leve the task of finding the appropriate US title codes that address the issue to someone with more time then I have. A 'service' contract may be a little different - if I agree to perform xyz work, and fail to do so, then I am in breach of contract. This could possibly result in damages assessed against me, but the nature of the contract and work would be considered.

As to the moral issues, I agree with iwsu - if the game is changed halfway through the relationship, it is better to reassess the rules and boundries. In the end, no amount of submission as a slave relieves a person of the moral, legal, and financial responsibilities of living in society. If I tell my slave to go to the local bank and rob it, my slave goes to jail - not me (I won't address the conspiracy issues, etc, this is just for illustration.) Similarly, if my slave gives me her credit card and power of attorny to use it, then she is the one who legally has to pay the bill. Ethically, the question is not a matter of 'if' the slave can leave, but rather when should he/she leave? While the best general rule is 'when it feels right, or if they are in danger' all relationships take time and effort. If I threw the towel in the first time I had a bump with a slave, then odds are I will probably never have a slave longer then a few days.

As to the milder example, I would suggest that before choosing to 'leave' the slave takes the time to express her unhappiness, frustrations, and let the Dom do what is best. Perhaps as an experiment in the short term that works out (this is that trust issue you know) or doesnt, and the two move on.

In the end, the D/s relationship isnt about how hard or far you can push the slave (I think) but rather finding a place where everyone's needs are met (even if the needs are to be denied ________ (fill in the blank)) Like in any relationship, it takes time, effort, and care. Relationships that are fraught wtih ultimatums rarely last. Relationships with cooperation and comprimise are the stuff that lasts a long time.

Stephan

< Message edited by Voltare -- 5/16/2004 4:33:46 PM >

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http://www.vv3b.com/

"There is always some madness in love, but there is always some reason in madness." - F. Nietzsche

(in reply to MistressDREAD)

RE: When can a slave leave? - 5/16/2004 4:53:39 PM

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Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

OK Voltare what
the hell You doin
in a cyber cafe in
Santiago Chile?

I wrestle with You later
under a better computer
situation for You on this
issue.

(in reply to Voltare)

RE: When can a slave leave? - 5/16/2004 5:02:44 PM

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Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

Estring,

I have stated time and again that there is no, repeat in block capitals NO CHASTITY DEVICE THAT CAN STANT UP LAWYERS, GUNS, AND MONEY and Other Warren Zevon songs.

Here is another one to add to the list: DOCTORS.

_____________________________

When the Lady smiles i can't resist her call. As a matter of fact, i don't resist at all. Well that depends if it is a smile or a grimmace.

(in reply to Estring)

RE: When can a slave leave? - 5/17/2004 12:04:16 AM

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Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline

I understand the protocols used by some in the lifestyle, including the one which says a contractually bound slave cannot leave, etc.

This is probably just me, but if a person does not want to be with me, I will help them pack. My submissive is with me because she WANTS to be with me, and if she decides she does not want to be with me, I wish her well and say goodbye.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

(in reply to iwillserveu)

RE: When can a slave leave? - 5/17/2004 2:03:18 AM

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So let me get this straight. If Bill and Melinda Gates start as vanilla then become D/s with Melinda the D and bill the s then she can one day say, “I don’t you should orgasm anymore, bill. Stay in this cage while I date REAL men who use Linux.” If bill balks she can leave him by the side of the road naked, and she is the owner of Microsoft?

Or let’s use a non-silly example. Someone from this board is going to travel cross-country because some guy sent her the story of O. He will have the right to leave her naked and penniless for not being fast enough with his coffee in the morning. Is that right?

If it is, “protocol” says he has “honor” and “integrity”? If so, “protocol” is as much as ass as he is.

Let’s see if I got this right. If a man is married to his slave she cannot ask for alimony? Oh, of course, let’s assume he is not married to her just has sex with her and allegedly cares for her. If he gets involved with something that is not her cup of tea, she can’t refuse or he takes everything?

Thank GOD (Whatever god, God, G-d, Goddess, gods, nothingness, etc., you will thank) “protocol” is not the law.

This morning MY alarm clock went off. I got out of MY bed. I will drive MY car. I will go to MY job. And I will empty MY bladder.

No offense intended, but they would never be Lady Beckett’s no matter what we called our relationship. (BTW, She has “Honor” and “Integrity” in not demanding MY alarm clock.)

_____________________________

When the Lady smiles i can't resist her call. As a matter of fact, i don't resist at all. Well that depends if it is a smile or a grimmace.

(in reply to iwillserveu)

RE: When can a slave leave? - 5/17/2004 5:37:45 AM

Posts: 765
Joined: 5/10/2004
From: New Castle, PA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: iwillserveu

So let me get this straight. If Bill and Melinda Gates start as vanilla then become D/s with Melinda the D and bill the s then she can one day say, “I don’t you should orgasm anymore, bill. Stay in this cage while I date REAL men who use Linux.” If bill balks she can leave him by the side of the road naked, and she is the owner of Microsoft?

if bill has become a slave (under my definition of slave) and voluntarily handed over all of his assets, and then while balking invokes his right of release, then yes

quote:

Or let’s use a non-silly example. Someone from this board is going to travel cross-country because some guy sent her the story of O. He will have the right to leave her naked and penniless for not being fast enough with his coffee in the morning. Is that right?

no - unless she invokes the right of release (presuming she becomes a slave [my definition]) he can only punish her

quote:

Let’s see if I got this right. If a man is married to his slave she cannot ask for alimony? Oh, of course, let’s assume he is not married to her just has sex with her and allegedly cares for her. If he gets involved with something that is not her cup of tea, she can’t refuse or he takes everything?

yes she could ask for alimony - that would be a legal decision of the court to take place after their divorce - or, in the second case (not married) - she will have agreed up front, voluntarily, and consenually to have no limits - so, technically, he can NOT get involved with something that is 'not her cup of tea'

quote:

This morning MY alarm clock went off. I got out of MY bed. I will drive MY car. I will go to MY job. And I will empty MY bladder. No offense intended, but they would never be Lady Beckett’s no matter what we called our relationship. (BTW, She has “Honor” and “Integrity” in not demanding MY alarm clock.)

This is because you are, under both my definitions and your own signature statement, a submissive, not a slave.

As I said in my original posting, it sounds harsh - and it is. I also realize it is not for everyone, and, in actuality, I personally have never had a slave under my definition - all of my relationships have been with submissives - it would take me a long time in a relationship before I became comfortable enough to even begin thinking about taking it from a submissive to a slave status - along with LOTS and LOTS of communication.

_____________________________

Apply Usual Caveats Here

An expert is somone who has made all the mistakes there are to be made

(in reply to iwillserveu)

RE: When can a slave leave? - 5/17/2004 8:54:58 AM

Posts: 6142
Joined: 1/31/2004
From: Washington
Status: offline

quote:

So let me get this straight. If Bill and Melinda Gates start as vanilla then become D/s with Melinda the D and bill the s then she can one day say, “I don’t you should orgasm anymore, bill. Stay in this cage while I date REAL men who use Linux.” If bill balks she can leave him by the side of the road naked, and she is the owner of Microsoft?

Too funny!! Hubby hates Microsoft (and we live close to Bill) and is switching all his customers to Linux. So i guess that means He's a "REAL" man, yipeeeee!!! Would love to see Bill nekkie by the side of the road LOL!

_____________________________

proudsub

"Without goals you become what you were. With goals you become what you wish." .

"You are entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts"--Alan Greenspan

(in reply to iwillserveu)

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