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Double Switching Question - 2/13/2007 2:10:34 PM   
WhiplashSmile


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Ok, Here's a few Scenarios, which I can't seem to find BDSM terminology for at least yet?  Be it when two Dom Switches (or Doms) are involved with each other. Both taking "top" and "bottom" in unison at the same time. Should that be called the "Middle"?  Below are some examples;

I have a hold of her hair, she has a hold my crotch, both of us are getting off by the pain we are receiving and causing at the same time.  She kisses me and bites down hard on my lips, while I rip on her panties hard like there's no tomorrow. Blah, blah, blah.. we'll you get the general idea here folks.  What the Hell do you call this in BDSM terminology?

Another example is where the top and bottom rolls change back and forth quickly, like a pulsating frequency.  For example;
She takes me by the crotch, pushes me down on a table, slaps my face, while biting my lip. I take hair by the hair, roll her off the table to the ground, smack her ass, while biting her shoulder. Both of us drawling blood and get turned on by what just happened.

These are just a few mild examples....  Is this really Two switches at play or two Dom's which simply love a fight?

Another example is; she was laying in my lap caressing my arm with her fingers, I was caressing her breasts.  Everytime I pinched her nipple hard, she would pluck out a hair, and Everytime she plucked out a hair I would sqeeze her nipple hard.  We did for an hour while watching a TV show, then took it upstairs.

Again, this another mild example...  is there a word to describe such a concept as  top/bottom/top/bottom (middle)? If anything we alternated between these roles like a machine gun.  On big blur...

These were some of my most intense experiences, went on for many months until she moved away for college.  She's always been in the back of my mind...

I can't see myself being in the bottom position for great length of time, So I don't know if I'm really a switch or not, or just a Dom which loves pain.  I'm trying to figure this out, and perhaps be able to hang a label on it.  I would like to have this type of relationship again, but I'm lost for words and perhaps what I'm looking for (switch or dom)? 

Anybody ever hear of two pain loving Doms hooking up... these are some double switching questions on my mind right now.


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RE: Double Switching Question - 2/13/2007 2:21:38 PM   
beltainefaerie


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You don't have to sustain the roles for a day or even an hour for the feeling to be valid.  Did you actually submit, or was it merely masochism.  There is a difference for me between power roles and sensation levels.  I could be ordering my submissive to beat the hell out of me, telling her where and with what implement and I am still in control.  There are many doms who like pain.  However, it sounds like you were definitely in a fluid motion of power as well, almost like a fight, but one that both of you inherently win, since you are having so much fun. If you need a label for it, call it switching, but really I think what matters is that it was mutually enjoyable.  

(in reply to WhiplashSmile)
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RE: Double Switching Question - 2/13/2007 2:30:20 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


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quote:

ORIGINAL: WhiplashSmile
I have a hold of her hair, she has a hold my crotch, both of us are getting off by the pain we are receiving and causing at the same time.  She kisses me and bites down hard on my lips, while I rip on her panties hard like there's no tomorrow. Blah, blah, blah.. we'll you get the general idea here folks.  What the Hell do you call this in BDSM terminology?

Hot?

You're both being primal and no one is submitting to the other, nor expected to submit to eachother.  That's just hot primal fun. 

quote:

Another example is where the top and bottom rolls change back and forth quickly, like a pulsating frequency.  For example;
She takes me by the crotch, pushes me down on a table, slaps my face, while biting my lip. I take hair by the hair, roll her off the table to the ground, smack her ass, while biting her shoulder. Both of us drawling blood and get turned on by what just happened.

I'd say you're taking turns topping at that point to get eachother mutually excited in hot play.

You're both masochists and you're both topping eachother to fulfill eachothers masochistic needs.

It can be a bitch to live with a switch :)  But the good relationships know better than to take revenge.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

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RE: Double Switching Question - 2/13/2007 4:25:35 PM   
MasterFireMaam


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To me, what you're describing is physical sensations that you each enjoy. Go with it. Life is allowed to be fluid.

Master Fire


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RE: Double Switching Question - 2/14/2007 1:52:06 AM   
obey1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: WhiplashSmile

What the Hell do you call this in BDSM terminology?

Is this really Two switches at play or two Dom's which simply love a fight?

Anybody ever hear of two pain loving Doms hooking up... these are some double switching questions on my mind right now.



To me it sounds like a Domme couple. There are many Dom/me couples out there that seek a common sub, as one or both are bi-sexual, for example.

I am in one conversation with a Domme who has a cuck who does not penetrate her.  If she and I were to hook up, we would both be dominant, just enjoying the mutual power exchange with no specific commands or directions except at the cuck.

I would not qualify your status by stating that you 'must' have a sub to be a Domme in this scenario.  There are many Doms like me who do not have at present a sub.  But I would and am actively seeking other Dommes for fun, mutual play, and the sharing of a lifestyle, sub, or slave.  I am not completely bi, but I would not be threatened by a same sex bi-sub in the room with me.  I would utilize more of the D/s relationship dynamic without specific genital contact, etc.

So, again, I think you are both Dommes.  There does exist the Domme+Domme couple in this world.  The fun part is when you can find a third 'sub' that you are both happy with.  She would serve you both well.

< Message edited by obey1 -- 2/14/2007 1:54:58 AM >

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RE: Double Switching Question - 2/14/2007 9:20:20 AM   
WhiplashSmile


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It was something more than masochism, just very unique in being a bottom and top at the same time.  Another off the wall example:  One time I was being a top physically with her, while she was verbally being a top.  I had no urge to even try to gag her mouth, because verbally she was turning me on.  We were very sarcastic with each other, and the use of come back lines was always intense.  Instead of giving direct orders, we simply dished out dares, threats, insults or otherwise pressed each others buttons.  Sometimes, one of us would simply tease the other.  Something which strikes me is how well, we would read each others body language, and we attuned to tone of voice.

Here's an example of body language and voice.  This was the start of playing watersports together, without talking about it.
We were talking a shower together and I needed to go take a piss.  I started to leave the shower, and she asked what I was doing. I said going to take a piss.  She said just piss here (meaning in the shower).  I turned around and looked up and down her body with my eyes (thinking wicked thoughts about unleashing it on her),  I knew she had been watching my eyes, reading me.  Our eyes locked together in a deep stare, and I had a wicked grin on my face and she had one on her face as well. That's all it took! It was only a matter of time before she would return the favor on me.  

One of the rules we always seemed to followed was; "Do unto others was you would have them do unto you!", or an "eye for an eye" and other cliches alike.

A mutal friends of ours at the time was simply amazed that she allowed me to do the things I did to her, and vice versa.  Because normall she the Dominate type, which would literally grab a guy by the balls and squeezed and dig in with her fingernails if somebody tried to force her to do something.  She in short allowed me to do things to her which she normally did not let other men do.  The same can be said with me, I allowed her to do things to me which I normally don't let be done to me.

Did either one of us sumbit to the other, always and yet never! Both her and I submitted to each other, but not in the typical sense.  Strange to submit without submitting.  Her and I both would try to play around with each other limits, and I just don't mean sexual ones. But it was done using enticement and seduction, instead of using orders and commands.  Sure we would use commands to tell each other what to do at times.  Sometimes, we'd play games on words.  For example, she could be verbally dishing out humilation and I'd tell turn around and bend over.  She would not comply right away, instead, she would keep provoking me, and then I would insult her, by telling her she was too scared to turn around and could not handle it anyways. If she turned around and complied, she got it.  If not it was just a matter of time before, I turned her around with force and bent her over. Then when I done doing what I did, she would attack me phyiscally in return, asking if I got off good doing what I was doing.. and she's procede to have her way with me.  It was always a challenge and fun trying to get each other to do things, slowly driving each other crazy.  Sometimes, if one of us broke down to take the TOP postion full force, it meant we were the looser in a sense because we gave into our Animal instinct.  So being on the TOP was like being on the Bottom at the same time.   Please undertand, that I was free to do whatever while being on top in this example, however it felt like the bottom at the same time, just because of everything verbally which had happened.   There are examples, where I drove her mad and got her to point of literally raping the hell out me, and then I found myself raping her back. 

So the Top was the top yet the bottom at the same time, and the Bottom was the bottom yet the top at the same time.  One big blur, we submited to each other but not under the normal terms and conditions you'd expect with submission.

I wonder if there are other people out there which have had similar experiences.  



(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
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RE: Double Switching Question - 2/14/2007 9:43:08 AM   
WhiplashSmile


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quote:

You're both being primal and no one is submitting to the other, nor expected to submit to eachother.  That's just hot primal fun. 

I'd say you're taking turns topping at that point to get eachother mutually excited in hot play.

You're both masochists and you're both topping eachother to fulfill eachothers masochistic needs.


Being the top also felt like being the bottom at the same time.
Being the bottom also felt like being the top at the same time.
Because of how wonderful strange we interacted verbally.
Neither one of us fully submitting in the traditional sense.
If anything it felt like internal submission, to abandon self control and sumbit to the animal inside.
In Animal mode, I did not care about control, I did not care what I was doing or what was being done to me. Everything became an extreme turn on, limits even went down.  Same thing was happening with her as well. 

She let me do things to her which she would not let anybody else do, I let her do things to me which I would not otherwise have done.   It was hot when we lost self control.  Sometimes I was the first to break, sometimes she was the first to break. But soon after one of us broke the other one broke as well.

I would kill to have another relationship like this, the pure D/s role at times I sometimes get bored with, because I always think of this previous relationship in the back of my mind.  I don't know how to define it with one word.  I think I should be looking for a DOM Switch, or a DOM which has become bored with the typical D/s role.   



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RE: Double Switching Question - 2/14/2007 10:06:31 AM   
WhiplashSmile


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quote:

ORIGINAL: obey1

quote:

ORIGINAL: WhiplashSmile

What the Hell do you call this in BDSM terminology?

Is this really Two switches at play or two Dom's which simply love a fight?

Anybody ever hear of two pain loving Doms hooking up... these are some double switching questions on my mind right now.



To me it sounds like a Domme couple. There are many Dom/me couples out there that seek a common sub, as one or both are bi-sexual, for example.
......
So, again, I think you are both Dommes.  There does exist the Domme+Domme couple in this world.  The fun part is when you can find a third 'sub' that you are both happy with.  She would serve you both well.


Thanks for the insight obey1.  The idea of being Domme+Domme couple with a third 'sub' that is really intense.  I just imagined in my mind for a moment what that would have been like, if we had had a sub in the middle of the mix.  I'm trying to mentally get a grasp on the dynamics of this past relationship. 

There is no way in hell I can train a sub to behave this way, and I don't see profiles for DOM women looking for DOM men.  I have been questioning myself lately "Am I really a Switch?".  I want like to have another relationship like this again.

The verbal and physical back and forth aspects, it was the best sex and best times I ever had.  My mind wonders every so often in the middle of playing with subs, how I wish they would lash out at me verbally or something.  Something to provoke me into really wanting to clamp the spreader bar down between the legs with all my might. Somebody to provoke the DOM in me more.  It's kind of like playing a little rough with a young kitten, where you can piss them off and they keep coming back for more, wanting to play harder and harder.

Thanks again for your insight.  

(in reply to obey1)
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RE: Double Switching Question - 2/14/2007 10:55:58 AM   
Aine


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Hrm....very interesting thread.  Not sure what my thought is on it just yet...though this is a line that I've been following in my head for some time considering my current relationship.  I'm definitely going to follow this one to see where things go.

_____________________________

Honey, you obviously missed the "want to be used as a toilet fetish" thread or "where do I get instructions on setting my sub on fire" thread. LOL

Thank you, DelRay for that one.

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RE: Double Switching Question - 2/14/2007 11:03:13 AM   
TwistedLady


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Sounds like Kink to me. Who says there has to be a name for everything? Just do what's fun for you!

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RE: Double Switching Question - 2/14/2007 11:39:46 AM   
TheShadows


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My terminology....You're a Dominant Masochist who was lucky enough to have had a relationship with another Dominant Masochist.  Marvelous, wasn't it?

As always, YMMV...
~MrsShadows~

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"Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most..." - Ozzy Osbourne

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RE: Double Switching Question - 2/14/2007 12:21:44 PM   
WhiplashSmile


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TwistedLady

Sounds like Kink to me. Who says there has to be a name for everything? Just do what's fun for you!


Yes, it was a lot kink.  However, there are some dynamics in the power play and some rules which were followed.

One aspect was that everything was an even exchange.  So if I were to do something to her, or she did something to me, then we'd be submitting to having it done back.  Hence where taking the TOP meant that you'd have to take the BOTTOM in exchange.  An Slap for a Slap, a Hair for a Squeeze, A mark for a Mark.   All the Engery you put into the TOP will bounce right back at you.  The interesting aspect, is Daring, Teasing and Button pushing to set things into motion.  To make me for instance to break down and want to smack her ass with a whip, I mean really wanting to do, knowing full well she'd return the favor.   More intense was when this all occurs in real time, with delay in recieving the energy back.  That would be the case of her laying in my lap pluck out hairs and me squeezing her nipple, and vice versa.

I really like the use of the word fluid to describe it...   It was excieting for me when she inflicted mental or phyiscal pain on me, because I knew she was submitting to me returning the favor.  So I myself would do everything to make her loose more control, knowing I would be allowed or permitted to exert the same level back on her.  Actually made recieving pain and humilation even so much more the worth it!!  We were caught up in some sort of "feedback loop" where the exchange power was fluid, and always flowing...

There was something at a mental level going on, beside two people just having a kinky time.  Sometimes we would just have a battle of wits and insults.  But there was always another caring and loving side to us as well.  We dished out pleasure as well as pain. Exchange of massgages, body kisses.  That too was fun and that engery was exchanged as well... fluid...

Sometime, if I saw her sticking a smoke in her mouth and was digging for a lighter, I would light her smoke for her.  There were times when she would place the smoke in her mouth and make a pouting gesture, for me to light it for her. I would pull the lighter out of my pocker and tap it down on the table in front of her, leaving it in upright position. Keep in mind the pouting light my cigerettee gesture was all just an act, and not part of her normal behavior patterns.  It was a role being played out. Our relationship was not about 2 people having kinky sex together.  Hope this sheds some additional light for those following the thread.














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RE: Double Switching Question - 2/14/2007 2:21:46 PM   
WhiplashSmile


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheShadows

My terminology....You're a Dominant Masochist who was lucky enough to have had a relationship with another Dominant Masochist.  Marvelous, wasn't it?

As always, YMMV...
~MrsShadows~


A pair of Dominant Sadomasochist, we both loved giving and recieving pain.  I forget to mention we both were into Autosadism, because there were times when we'd inflict pain on ourselves.  I don't know if this is charactistic which is required for this type of relationship to unfold or not.  Also, at times the way we dressed would reflect a form self bondage.

I actually have been approached by women, to come back to their place to be tied up and restrained.  I refused everytime.  I have been mistaken for a sub/bottom type because of what I was wearing at the time.  Also, I have had men proposition me at times, mistaking both my sexuality and role.  One guy complained that I was being a tease with false advertising.  Though I am not into men, I have teased bi or gay men at times if I was drawn to their personality.  Makes me wonder if I'm a bit Polysexual when it comes to flirting and teasing.  I only have sexual relationships with women.  This was another thing I had in common with the girl I was with at the time.  She would tease other women, yet she was not into being with them.  Taking things only so far.  Sometimes we had a lot of fun going out to the bars, on the way home we'd exchange stories about our interactions with people for the night.  Twisted, very Twisted pair we made! Yes, we actually got off in teasing and turning people down.  Sadistic in a sense, but very fun at the same time.  Even more so, that we actually knew what we were doing and got a good laugh out of it, plus it seemed to feed our evil egos as well.   This relationship had brought out sides in me unlike any before or after.

We both enjoyed both Sadism and Masochism.


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RE: Double Switching Question - 2/15/2007 8:16:24 PM   
michaels4evr


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Whip..you are making me miss someone with all those stories..I once had a very wonderful relationship similar to the one you describe...we would frequently have riding crop duels...and we also enjoyed going to parties and seducing girls, or other couples, and most of the time we'd turn them down and go home and enjoy each other...I understand what you mean by being bottom and Top in the same instance..I consider myself a Sadistic masochistic submissive...very often I'd be on Top..him tied to the bedposts.. pinching his nipples till they were numb, with him cursing me out all the while..in between "thank You Miss"es. While in the throws of ecstasy..i'd "not notice" that he'd freed himself only to overtake me, flip me over and choke me till I nearly passed out...afterwards I'd throw the blanket on the floor and make him sleep at my feet..an hour later I'd be down there with him spooning..happily...

those were the days..

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RE: Double Switching Question - 2/15/2007 8:21:21 PM   
ArgoGeorgia


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I say try to avoid a label if you can - they only add to the confusion rather than adding clarity!

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RE: Double Switching Question - 2/16/2007 8:05:42 PM   
pickingrinnin


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I don't think there is a term for it, but there should be.  I have often experienced the same thing you are talking about.

I can switch within a scene or within a relationship.  There have been many times when I have topped and bottomed simultaneously.  Sometimes I rapidly transition between being dominant or submissive, with the same (consenting) person, in the same scene.  I could easily dominate someone while submitting to another person.  I have no problem feeling both dominant and submissive at the same time.

- Jesse

(in reply to WhiplashSmile)
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RE: Double Switching Question - 12/4/2007 12:07:50 PM   
IcheLiebeBondage


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A Manic Submissive    maybe ?

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RE: Double Switching Question - 12/4/2007 8:02:47 PM   
LotusSong


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how about we call it "wrestling"?

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I'm not inflatable.


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RE: Double Switching Question - 12/4/2007 9:43:03 PM   
Boondoggle


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I think the majority of the population would just call that rough sex.

More power to you for dissecting it and recognizing the underlying power play. It sounds hot.

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RE: Double Switching Question - 12/8/2007 7:12:43 PM   
michaels4evr


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The physical aspects of what you describe sounds like Erotic Combat to me..which can occur in any type of coupling in my opinion.

The service roles that you discussed sounds more like an equal partnership arrangement..not sure if I would call either one of you a switch in terms of how you relate to each other..seems even with the cigarette lighting..its more about equivalent acts of service rather than actual power exchange..

just my two cents...

(in reply to Boondoggle)
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