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RE: Dominant Asking For Submissive to Be BiSexual - 2/18/2007 4:37:50 AM   
bandit25


Posts: 3029
Joined: 6/18/2005
Status: offline 		I have to say that I go with LA on this one.  I'm pretty much in the "if I'm not going to do something, I'm not going to do it" camp.  There are things I've done that I didn't think I would, but not because I was giving up a limit.  I guess what I mean is that I prefer to know all this up front also.  I don't know how many limits I really have, but there are some things I'm just not gonna do.  If that makes me not submissive, so be it.  I don't subscribe much to the "act of trust" thing either.  I can't imagine anything more trusting that letting someone tie me up...after that happens, I think I've pretty much proven how much I trust someone.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: Dominant Asking For Submissive to Be BiSexual - 2/18/2007 4:59:10 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Oh, I'd like to see you  snuffing up a big fat pussy, bandi....

Ron


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Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to bandit25)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: Dominant Asking For Submissive to Be BiSexual - 2/18/2007 5:00:03 AM   
ExSteelAgain


Posts: 1803
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Georgia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Oh, I'd like to see you  snuffing up a big fat pussy, bandi....

Ron



LOL

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You can paint a cinder block bright pastel pink, but it's still a cinder block. (By Me.)

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: Dominant Asking For Submissive to Be BiSexual - 2/18/2007 5:01:40 AM   
puella


Posts: 2457
Joined: 12/2/2004
Status: offline 		Hello juliaoceania,

Interesting topic...I am not really able to post to this beyond my own personal experience as it has scored such a deep gouge in the person that I am now, so I will try to be as level headed about this as possible.

Taking all the variables you proposed into account, I think that the actual forced bisexuality is not the biggest issue which has the potential to do the most damage, in the situation.  I know that it was not something I liked, it in fact it repulsed me on many levels to be forced to serve a woman, but there are many tasks a person will perform to please the person they serve, once they cross a certain threshold...

I think the crux of the problem is this, that at the very onset of a relationship, before the sub/slave is fully 'ensnared', she has a lot more room, in her head and in her heart, to define the "no's" which are a part of who she is and how she serves.  In many ways, culling a submissive, if we are talking about something coming as close as possible to 'slavery' or total power exchange, can be a very slippery slope, for both partners, but I do think that the submissive at some point in that development can be brought to a point where she crosses (and perhaps chooses to cross) a very dangerous line where denying something to her dominant, no matter the cost to self , becomes such a failure in her own mind (and on so many other levels) that 'no' is not an option she can even fathom exercising anymore.

There are places you can go (or be led, an I am not sure this 'place' can be reached without the guidance of another) within yourself from which coming back in any sort of recognizable form is nearly impossible.  Crossing that threshold is one of them.

The issue of forced bisexuality is complex because there are many other issues attached to it... is he introducing another woman as a full partner into the relationship, thus introducing an initially unbargained for poly situation on the 'snared' sub?  Will the new female component be submissive as well or will she be a female dominant, thus forcing another 'service contract' upon the submissive?  Do the women like each other at all?  Does it matter to the Dom if they do not?  Where will punishment lie if failure at this attempted 'relationship' is all that is achieved?

I think anything can be tolerated in small doses, especially if a submissive sees that what might be hurtful or repulsive to her is something which brings great pleasure to her dominant.  I do not know that that is healthy in the long run, however.  Perhaps there is no reason why it shouldn't be, but I know that for me, it is not something I have been at all successful in coming to terms with in failure and release, and it has let deep scars, deep impressions.

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 64
RE: Dominant Asking For Submissive to Be BiSexual - 2/18/2007 5:08:35 AM   
bandit25


Posts: 3029
Joined: 6/18/2005
Status: offline 		Yeah, well don't hold your breath baby.  Wait. DO hold your breath...I'll tell you when you can let it go. 

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: Dominant Asking For Submissive to Be BiSexual - 2/18/2007 5:16:55 AM   
eyesopened


Posts: 2798
Joined: 6/12/2006
From: Tampa, FL
Status: offline 		i can never BE bisexual because i don't think anyone chooses their sexuality.  i have engaged in sexual activities with other women.  i had about as much enjoyment as cleaning my cat's litter box.  Something that had to be done but would really rather not have to.

What bothers me about the whole girl on girl thing is that the guys seem to think all women just love it (because we all know porn is documentary in nature and never fantasy)  but i felt sorry for the women i performed on because what kind of enjoyment could they have from someone who is about to toss her cookies over it?  i think this insults all the females involved.  i question why the "third" is often considered an object without human emotions.  i know men want to see it, i know it turns them on more than just about anything.  But i am NOT bisexual and to be made to perform would be a punishment i would accept but it would still be punishment for me.


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(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: Dominant Asking For Submissive to Be BiSexual - 2/18/2007 5:27:06 AM   
bandit25


Posts: 3029
Joined: 6/18/2005
Status: offline 		LOL...ain't it the truth? 

(in reply to eyesopened)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: Dominant Asking For Submissive to Be BiSexual - 2/18/2007 5:50:24 AM   
StellaByStarlite


Posts: 790
Joined: 2/10/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

I have had this curiousity building in me about something I have seen on profiles here, and some debating with others about this topic...what do you think of requiring a submissive to engage in bisexual activities if it was understood between the two that she was not bisexual at the beginning of the dynamic? By this I mean at the beginning there was no expressed desire for her to be bisexual, and that was the way the relationship started. What do you think of the dominant asking for this limit to be released? Does the motivation for him asking for this matter? Would it matter if it was because he just desired her to release all such limits to him, or some other trust building experience he was working on acheiving through this?

What are your thoughts?


Hello. =) 
 
It's really difficult for me to give an opinion on a hypothetical relationship situation. But hey.. the reality is, is that people change over time. There's really nothing wrong with a dominant wanting to re-think the limits that were set up in the beginning, and wanting to discuss them with his/her sub. If bisexuality just isn't a option, if it continues to be a Hard limit with a capital H, then they would probably have to re-think the dynamics of their relationship, as well. I guess it also depends on how much the dominant wants this experience.
 
Stella

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: Dominant Asking For Submissive to Be BiSexual - 2/18/2007 6:22:17 AM   
BRNaughtyAngel


Posts: 1821
Status: offline 		Puella and eyesopened bring up some really good points. (okay LA LA and others did as well).

I am not bi and have zero interest in women sexually.  Besides the realistic view of relationships portrayed in porn , I sometimes wonder if guys just can't grasp that women can be affectionate with each other without wanting to jump each others bones? 

My Master has made it clear this is something He wants from me and yes I will do it.  But I'm like eyesopened and puella, what about the feelings of the third?  I mean really, I certainly wouldn't want to have sex with someone who didn't want to have sex with me. 

I could say more, but others have covered the topic quite nicely.



(in reply to eyesopened)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: Dominant Asking For Submissive to Be BiSexual - 2/18/2007 6:29:09 AM   
catize


Posts: 3020
Joined: 3/7/2006
Status: offline
quote:

What do you think of the dominant asking for this limit to be released? Does the motivation for him asking for this matter?  

 
I think if the dominant brings it up as a topic of discussion it is just that: a topic for discussion.  My opinion is that his motivation only matters if his intent is to push it despite what I say or think or feel.   
(see below)
Puella said:
quote:

  There are places you can go (or be led, an I am not sure this 'place' can be reached without the guidance of another) within yourself from which coming back in any sort of recognizable form is nearly impossible.  Crossing that threshold is one of them.

Puella,
I have had similar thoughts.  There are several things or activities that master has expressed an interest in but I fear them.  I am afraid of how such things might negatively impact my self-esteem. The possibility that those activities would alter the ‘me’ of myself, that I wouldn’t come back from them intact, is more than I am willing to risk.


_____________________________

"Power is real. But it's a lot less real if it's not perceived as power."
Robert Parker, Stranger in Paradise

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: Dominant Asking For Submissive to Be BiSexual - 2/18/2007 6:41:13 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

Now if you are saying you are not sure you want to do something or not, well that is a whole other game. It means you probably want to do it…heh


Here is the thing, as a novice there were a mountain of activities I put in the hard limit category because my desire to do these things scared me. I do not think I am the only one that has done this (although I could be!)


_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to ExSteelAgain)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: Dominant Asking For Submissive to Be BiSexual - 2/18/2007 6:47:04 AM   
SCDommie


Posts: 176
Joined: 1/24/2007
Status: offline 		Granted, we are the lifestyle, and some Dom/mes like to engage in forced bisexuality.  I think in this sub's case, she did not wish to go that direction from the beginning, and the boundary should be accepted by the Dom if it was agreed to before anything began.
Things are subject to change, but in my opinion, I think sexuality is a personal choice that we all have.

Regards,

SCD

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: Dominant Asking For Submissive to Be BiSexual - 2/18/2007 6:47:17 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		Puella,

You gave me much food for thought. Thank you.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to puella)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: Dominant Asking For Submissive to Be BiSexual - 2/18/2007 6:48:47 AM   
ExSteelAgain


Posts: 1803
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Georgia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

Now if you are saying you are not sure you want to do something or not, well that is a whole other game. It means you probably want to do it…heh


Here is the thing, as a novice there were a mountain of activities I put in the hard limit category because my desire to do these things scared me. I do not think I am the only one that has done this (although I could be!)



Makes sense to me. I'm sure there are many who do that.

_____________________________

You can paint a cinder block bright pastel pink, but it's still a cinder block. (By Me.)

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: Dominant Asking For Submissive to Be BiSexual - 2/18/2007 6:54:31 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

think this insults all the females involved.  i question why the "third" is often considered an object without human emotions.  i know men want to see it, i know it turns them on more than just about anything.  But i am NOT bisexual and to be made to perform would be a punishment i would accept but it would still be punishment for me.


I think it can be insulting to some women. I also think some women desire to be objectified in this way, and that really is ok. My friend has entered the swinging world with her dominant. He has had her do certain things with another submissive owned by someone else. The level of objectification that she described bothered me some, but this other lady had her dominant right in the room. Fact of the matter is, swinging couples objectify other couples, they refer to the others they are with as "tools" to enhance their primary relationship... I have no judgment about the objectification thing because I know that many people get hot over it... their kink is not my kink but their kink is ok

There are many things I do that I do not enjoy, but they are not punishment. Now the idea of going down on a woman for my own sexual satiafaction makes me about as hot as washing dishes, but I am not revolted by the idea either.. perhaps that is the difference?

I actually think the female body is beautiful, I am not sexually attracted to women that I know though.


_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to eyesopened)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: Dominant Asking For Submissive to Be BiSexual - 2/18/2007 7:13:00 AM   
LotusSong


Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: windrush

Limits change overtime, especially when you develop trust between each other. A good Master has the right to ask, but He should love his sub enough to listen to her reasons for and against.


If the master is straight.. I'd tell him ".. you first.  Oh,  and act like you like it"

_____________________________

Life Lesson #1

I'm not your type.
I'm not inflatable.


(in reply to windrush)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: Dominant Asking For Submissive to Be BiSexual - 2/18/2007 7:16:14 AM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		This thread has given me much food for thought. I do not consider myself to be bi-sexual, and have never had a bi-sexual experience (yet). I am not completely opposed to one, and having nothing against bi-sexuals, though (or lesbians).

I have to say, though, that whenever I've imagined myself in this sort of scenario, it's been with a female Domme who is either lesbian or bi-sexual, never with another female submissive.

I suppose if my Daddy were to suggest I have a scene with another female, we could discuss it. I don't see my Daddy (so far) as being unreasonable, as far as being able to take my feelings about this kind of thing into serious consideration. We would need to discuss "how far" the scene would go, etc. I need to think about it - so I am glad this thread was here!

- Susan   

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 2/18/2007 7:24:36 AM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to LotusSong)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: Dominant Asking For Submissive to Be BiSexual - 2/18/2007 7:16:39 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong

quote:

ORIGINAL: windrush

Limits change overtime, especially when you develop trust between each other. A good Master has the right to ask, but He should love his sub enough to listen to her reasons for and against.


If the master is straight.. I'd tell him ".. you first.  Oh,  and act like you like it"


Well my Daddy would never demand I do a bisexual act because he is not willing to do it himself. If I was so revolted by it he would not ever even approach asking for me to do that.

Does your male submissive have to get off on everything he does for your pleasure? Just wondering?

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to LotusSong)
Profile   Post #: 78
RE: Dominant Asking For Submissive to Be BiSexual - 2/18/2007 7:17:06 AM   
VeryMercurial


Posts: 620
Joined: 6/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong

quote:

ORIGINAL: windrush

Limits change overtime, especially when you develop trust between each other. A good Master has the right to ask, but He should love his sub enough to listen to her reasons for and against.


If the master is straight.. I'd tell him ".. you first.  Oh,  and act like you like it"


Wonderful answer LotusSong, I am going to remember that one.

(in reply to LotusSong)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: Dominant Asking For Submissive to Be BiSexual - 2/18/2007 7:24:36 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO


I have to say, though, that whenever I've imagined myself in this sort of scenario, it's been with a female Domme who is either lesbian or bi-sexual, never with another female submissive.


- Susan   


Isn't that interesting? The idea of another woman dominating me makes me fantasize about knocking her teeth out. I am repulsed by the thought of a woman dominating me. I do not know why that is so, but the thought is disturbing to me.

When I have contemplated doing this it has been more of a vanilla experience in my head, with power being exchanged with my Daddy in a very sublime way undetected by the third. I have no desire for another submissive around sexually either. That is the way it has played out in my head when thinking what I could or would do. Funny how people feel differently about such things.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to SusanofO)
Profile   Post #: 80
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