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Dominating vs. Controlling AND/OR Domineering - 3/17/2005 2:23:23 AM   
FragileRose


Posts: 58
Joined: 3/6/2005
Status: offline 		For a strong submissive seeking the "right" master for a long-term relationship, it could be important to look carefully at whether the Dom(me) is truly dominating OR merely controlling AND/OR domineering. It is to be hoped that one's Dom(me) manages to be dominating in a way that benefits the Dom(me) and the submissive but I suspect that, being human, some may be merely domineering AND/OR controlling. Some Dom(me)s course may be two of the above or even all three - but I for one hope to avoid the combination of dominating and domineering. It may be helpful to look at this by considering a scenario, such as going out to dinner with a potential Dom(me). How might a Dom(me) with a truly "dominating" orientation behave vs. a domineering and/or controlling one?
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RE: Dominating vs. Controlling AND/OR Domineering - 3/17/2005 5:35:50 AM   
EmeraldSlave2


Posts: 3645
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		Domineering comes from a place of insecurity and feeling a LACK of control, thus needing to push things in order to feel secure.

Dominating comes from an organic place that ideally is secure and is simply using ones talents and orientation for them.

Controlling for me is a direct aspect. For example, you can't control the weather, but you can control answering the phone. Whether you micro manage and tell your slave what to wear everyday or control sporadically during scenes or don't do much control at all but just delegate things, it depends on your personal style of "dominance."

What matters is how they affect your life- are they making the sub feel MORE secure, MORE powerful, MORE in tune with themselves, MORE functional in the real world? If so, then keep at it.

(in reply to FragileRose)
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RE: Dominating vs. Controlling AND/OR Domineering - 3/17/2005 7:28:27 AM   
TallDarkAndWitty


Posts: 1893
Joined: 6/12/2004
From: Rochester, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FragileRose

For a strong submissive seeking the "right" master for a long-term relationship, it could be important to look carefully at whether the Dom(me) is truly dominating OR merely controlling AND/OR domineering.


(I am going to play against type *wink* and say something that will probably be rejected by the majority of people on here.)

I think this is one of those long held and widely agreed upon bits of fluff that is just so much bullsh!t.

I think that if you are the type of sub/slave/property that is looking for a relationship that is about satisfying your own needs, then you should indeed look for a dom/master/owner that isn't domineering or controlling. If, however, your real goal is a someone to whom you can really submit/obey/belong to, then the domineering/controlling ones may be your best bet.

Let's face it, there are lots of people who are into this lifestyle for reasons that often have to do with insecurity/abuse/(so called)mental illness. There are subs/slaves/property who do indeed want/need a domineering/controlling dom/master/owner.

If this isn't you, great. Just don't paint the world with a black and white brush.

Someone should post a complimentary thread to this one warning doms/masters/owners against doormat/insecure/low self-esteem subs/slaves/property. It really is, and always has been, a question of finding the right lid for your pot.

Taggard

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A most rewarding compliment is an insult from the ill-informed.


My slave: Kat (RainaVerene on the other side) and her website: RainaVerene.com

(in reply to FragileRose)
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RE: Dominating vs. Controlling AND/OR Domineering - 3/17/2005 8:37:45 AM   
domtimothy46176


Posts: 670
Joined: 12/25/2004
From: Dayton, Ohio area
Status: offline 		I tend to agree with Taggard that it's really question of finding a lid that fits your pot. having said that, I think the behavioral differences that you're speaking of are stylistic differences. I would think that if you run into a dominant that is a demanding, take-charge kind of guy, that would be what you're looking to avoid, if I understand you correctly. You seem to looking for someone more subtle, one who practices the 'inspire you to obey' style of management, yes? I would think your best bet is to simply ask the guy how he approaches obtaining obedience. I would think his answer should give you the insight you need. For example, I'm a low-key kind of guy. I expect obedience because that's why my girl is here. I don't need to demand it, although in times of stress she may need a quiet reminder to ask herself why she's here. Ultimately, obedience isn't something I rip from her, through force or manipulation, but something I accept from her as approbriate to our arrangement.
Timothy
Timothy

(in reply to FragileRose)
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RE: Dominating vs. Controlling AND/OR Domineering - 3/17/2005 5:54:11 PM   
SirKenin


Posts: 2994
Joined: 10/31/2004
From: Barrie, ON Canada
Status: offline 		I like Taggard's response too. I think He hit the nail right on the head. I think there's all different styles of domination, including combinations thereof. What works for My sub and I might not work for the next person. The next submissive might look at Me like I'm strange.

For instance, I have a more subtle approach to have My pet obey. I lay out My expectations, get her to practice them a few times and then expect it to be done that way. Every now and again I give a reminder for the first while. I also dominate psychologically, very subtly but very effectively. Now I was talking to a sub friend of Mine who was telling Me about her Dom. His style of dominance to Me seems totally off the wall. He'll grab her by the hair, lift her off the ground and carry her to the couch where He spanks her until she screams. That's not My way of doing things to be certain, but it works for them.

I truly believe there is no right or wrong way to dominate or submit, save for a few generally agreed upon guidelines, that it is unique to each individual.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by SirKenin -- 3/17/2005 5:56:00 PM >

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RE: Dominating vs. Controlling AND/OR Domineering - 3/17/2005 6:16:48 PM   
FragileRose


Posts: 58
Joined: 3/6/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: EmeraldSlave2

What matters is how they affect your life- are they making the sub feel MORE secure, MORE powerful, MORE in tune with themselves, MORE functional in the real world? If so, then keep at it.


What a powerful statement, EmeraldSlave2. I am coming to D/s fairly late in life. In the past, I became involved with men that were domineering and controlling. The end result was my feeling less empowered in the "real world" as you call it. My own limited experience with a long distance Dominant, Mentor, and Friend has given me a newfound strength - to my own great surprise.

In response to other comments - I realize there are as many ways to dominate and submit as there are people. I am getting at something deeper than style here. Perhaps I am not asking the question very well. I think it can be difficult to work through the difference between someone that is dominating vs. someone that is a control freak or a dominating personality.

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RE: Dominating vs. Controlling AND/OR Domineering - 3/17/2005 6:42:18 PM   
MistressMiss


Posts: 24
Joined: 2/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

I think it can be difficult to work through the difference between someone that is dominating vs. someone that is a control freak or a dominating personality.


My opinion for what its worth, I am a dominating personality. I expect that people around me ( friends, kids, family) know that I am not a push over in my life. As for Domination, there is a line that is drawn to me. The line is this. As a Dominant, to show a sub/slave how to be who they are as a submissive and taught expectations of their Master/Mistress

A control freak is just that, wants control of every aspect regardless of what anyone else wants. A dominating personality I believe needs to be there in a Dom/Domme to make Domination successful.

If a Dominant no matter what gender does not have control of themselves and a Dominating personality, then Domination is a moot point. I can control things in my life without being a bitch about it. Very short and to the point, that is a Domineering way, as for a relationship with a sub/slave, it is the same way. I do not need to be mean to get what I want out of that relationship. It is always known EXACTLY what I want. That is not a control freak but a Dominant. a Domineering nature has to be there in some facet of Domination.

I dont know if that answered your question or not, but that is the difference I see in that statement.

(in reply to FragileRose)
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RE: Dominating vs. Controlling AND/OR Domineering - 4/6/2005 12:15:22 AM   
Padriag


Posts: 2633
Joined: 3/30/2005
Status: offline 		Domineering and Dominant leadership (I like dominant leadership better than just dominance, I think it helps define the difference better even in the terminology) are flip sides of the same coin in my opinion. Each seeks to gain control of others as their primary goal, but they do so through different methods and styles of dominance. Both can be very effective in what they do and in their methods. They differ however in the long term effects on the people they influence... domineering will have generally negative long term effects vs dominant leadership which will have generally positive effects.

Domineering control has as its basic principle fear to achieve control. This may be direct threat such as "do this or else" or more subtle forms of fear "if you don't do this you're not good enough" It breaks down the will to resist in the submissive as a means of forcing control. Domineering is "violent" in its means in so far as it uses force to achieve its ends. As a direct result of this domineering control will often break down the self esteem and the self worth of those it influences, it degrades other in order to make itself superior. It is typically very competitive in nature and needs to prove its superiority through competition with others.

Dominant leadership has as its basic principle hope used to achieve control. This can take the form of inspiring obedience (and thus control) through personal leadership an charisma, or through use of goal setting and goal directed behavior. Dominant leadership more typically presents the situation of "do this because" and "do this because I want you to be the best you can be". Rather than breaking down the will to resist, it instead inspires a desire to cooperate, a desire to please. Dominant leadership has no need to use force to achieve its goals unless forced into it. That is, it punishes only because disobedience requires it to maintain discipline, it does not punish in order to force obedience. Dominant leadership uplifts rather than degrades, its is not generally competitive and has little to prove.

Both are capable of punishing, both are capable of being controlling, strict, etc. But the reasons they do these things are entirely different. A dominant leader will be strict because they feel its necessary for the relationship, to create a stable set of boundaries, healthy structure. A domineer will be strict because they want to feel an increased sense of power, because they want to ensure that their desires are met, to satisfy their own drives. Its not what they do, but why they do it that differentiates them. A dominant leader certainly has their own interests in mind (they aren't altruist) but they also have the best interests of the relationship and the submissive in mind as well and seek to balance those things. A domineer is more selfish and seeks their own interests above all else. Either is capable of mircromanagement, etc... but if done, it will be done for entirely different reasons.

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A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

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RE: Dominating vs. Controlling AND/OR Domineering - 4/6/2005 4:33:42 AM   
Oumae


Posts: 911
Joined: 1/4/2005
Status: offline 		I'd have to say that with my take on the meanings of the words/terms Dominating is more positive than domineering. Domineering to me seems more of a bullying.

Oumae

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RE: Dominating vs. Controlling AND/OR Domineering - 4/6/2005 8:00:59 AM   
CitizenCane


Posts: 349
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		If one looks at the difference between typical vanilla perceptions of BDSM and the perceptions of those within the lifestyle, it becomes pretty clear that the line between dominance and domineering is as much in the mind of the beholder as in the actions of the dominant/domineer.



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RE: Dominating vs. Controlling AND/OR Domineering - 4/6/2005 9:09:34 AM   
Youtalkingtome


Posts: 112
Joined: 12/8/2004
Status: offline 		I agree 100% with you Padiag.
I fall into the leadership Dominant.And I know people that fall into the othe categories.
I have to say that this is the best definition I have seen.I couldn't have said it any better myself.

(in reply to Padriag)
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RE: Dominating vs. Controlling AND/OR Domineering - 4/6/2005 9:32:24 AM   
Gemeni


Posts: 255
Joined: 2/19/2005
Status: offline 		A Dominant personality inspires and leads by example. He already has his own inner power,and never needs to take that from another to have it-In other words,he is already a master,even if he chooses not to have a slave. These types are simply hardwired for control,since they do it with themselves,each and every day. They are often called "Natural Dominants" for this reason-they don't have to work at it, or play with drama-they simply are. The way you spot one is that they have an easy and relaxed way of relating to others,they don't tend to be pushy. The ways they interact inspire respect and trust in those who have a submissive nature.

A domineering sort tends to do so out of neediness and insecurity. These are the power hungry ones seeking to fill an empty space inside. They will steadfastly insist they have no lacks,but thier behavior and constant demands say otherwise. These are the drama queens,micromanagers..The ones who nit pick every detail and look for piddly reasons to punish. The kind who insists you call him by a title immediately. You can tell these sorts by a feeling of tension relating to them. The feeling you are walking on eggs in thier presence,and that they are barely in emotional control at any moment.

< Message edited by Gemeni -- 4/6/2005 9:34:48 AM >

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RE: Dominating vs. Controlling AND/OR Domineering - 4/6/2005 9:38:33 AM   
EmeraldSlave2


Posts: 3645
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		I personally have never met a dominant who didn't work and doesn't continue to work hard to maintain relationships and progress with their slaves.

Now, their chemistry with their slave and their attitude/charisma might be so nonchalant and natural as to be effortless, but the relationship as a dominant themselves definitely requires work.

Many a dominant has had a sub fall at their feet "naturally" in the first meeting, and then are wrestling for power within a month.

(in reply to Gemeni)
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RE: Dominating vs. Controlling AND/OR Domineering - 4/7/2005 3:57:14 AM   
lil1v


Posts: 125
Joined: 4/4/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TallDarkAndWitty

It really is, and always has been, a question of finding the right lid for your pot.



I've always described it as finding the right FIT. But I also think there is some truth to the idea that "domineering" comes from a place of insecurity rather than confidence. And then that could be part my bias.

Until my last Master/Dom, I had always thought thats how things HAD to be or should be. That basically.. "it was what I deserved".. We had many discussions and He worked really hard at getting me to understand and believe in myself that I was worth more than letting myself be abused or used to feel "loved"...

We had met during a time I was with ex-bf who was Domineering but not of the lifestyle. He used to verbally beat me down to nothing every time we spoke. At the time, in the situation... I believed thats how affection or love was relayed. It was what I "needed" and "deserved" and I adored the guy.

But now I approach things differently and want something more than being "Less than"... I believe that Dominance comes from within as does submission. And the right two people (or more if you're poly) can fit together in an unbelievable way.

Thats my two cents.. Take from it what you will.


_____________________________

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RE: Dominating vs. Controlling AND/OR Domineering - 4/7/2005 11:30:05 AM   
SirKenin


Posts: 2994
Joined: 10/31/2004
From: Barrie, ON Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Gemeni

A Dominant personality inspires and leads by example. He already has his own inner power,and never needs to take that from another to have it-In other words,he is already a master,even if he chooses not to have a slave. These types are simply hardwired for control,since they do it with themselves,each and every day. They are often called "Natural Dominants" for this reason-they don't have to work at it, or play with drama-they simply are. The way you spot one is that they have an easy and relaxed way of relating to others,they don't tend to be pushy. The ways they interact inspire respect and trust in those who have a submissive nature.


I find this paragraph really interesting. I can relate because I truly believe I am naturally dominant. I have an odd way with people. People that never thought of themselves as being submissive do in fact submit to Me. It is rather wierd. It is funny that you have stated this as My girlfriend and I were just talking about this the other day. she mentioned something to Me about My charisma, charm and the way I dialogue with others including the manner in which I am very persuasive. she says somehow I can convince anyone, although I'm not sure I concur with "anyone". she says I have a presence, a vibe. "You can feel it". she adds that I command respect without even asking for it. she says "It's a talent You have i guess". I do not have to push My way on others at all. They simply yield. I can not really explain it, but it happens. I am also finding that women are drawn to it like a magnet. I am being told that they like a man who is confident, knows himself and is in control.

It sure is wierd in some ways, but it works. My current love originally looked at herself as having some submissive qualities, but not necessarily identifying as a submissive. she found that the more she was with Me, the more she desired to submit to My dominance and control and the more she desired to serve.

The trick, of course, is to not let it get to your head. So far so good fortunately. There is nothing like being an egotistical prick.

< Message edited by SirKenin -- 4/7/2005 11:32:32 AM >

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Wicca: Pretending to be an ancient religion since 1956

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RE: Dominating vs. Controlling AND/OR Domineering - 4/7/2005 11:57:06 AM   
lil1v


Posts: 125
Joined: 4/4/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Gemeni

A Dominant personality inspires and leads by example. He already has his own inner power,and never needs to take that from another to have it-In other words,he is already a master,even if he chooses not to have a slave. These types are simply hardwired for control,since they do it with themselves,each and every day. They are often called "Natural Dominants" for this reason-they don't have to work at it, or play with drama-they simply are. The way you spot one is that they have an easy and relaxed way of relating to others,they don't tend to be pushy. The ways they interact inspire respect and trust in those who have a submissive nature.

A domineering sort tends to do so out of neediness and insecurity. These are the power hungry ones seeking to fill an empty space inside. They will steadfastly insist they have no lacks,but thier behavior and constant demands say otherwise. These are the drama queens,micromanagers..The ones who nit pick every detail and look for piddly reasons to punish. The kind who insists you call him by a title immediately. You can tell these sorts by a feeling of tension relating to them. The feeling you are walking on eggs in thier presence,and that they are barely in emotional control at any moment.


How did I miss this post? omg.. this is so well said I didn't even need to post earlier.

Gotta learn to read someday.

kuddos Gemeni

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RE: Dominating vs. Controlling AND/OR Domineering - 4/8/2005 1:29:25 AM   
Padriag


Posts: 2633
Joined: 3/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

I'd have to say that with my take on the meanings of the words/terms Dominating is more positive than domineering. Domineering to me seems more of a bullying.


You're right Oumae, the domineering types do tend to be bullies. They're trying to get what they want without a fair exchange.

Here's part of my personal philosophy about this lifestyle, take from it what you will.

All D/s and M/s relationships involve some degree of power exchange. Its the underlying dynamic that makes these relationships distinct from any other form of relationship. The emphasis here is exchange. The submissive exchanges control over herself to the dominant in exchange for having various needs met. These might be needs for affection, love, security, a sense of belonging, structure, boundaries, etc.... just to name a few possibilities as examples. The dominant agrees to meet these needs in exchange for the control... so you have a trade. When this trade is balanced you have the potential for a healthy relationship.

What a domineering type tries to do is cheat by using force in the form of intimidation, bullying, violence, tearing down self esteem, etc. to get what they want without making that fair exchange... and that makes it abusive. You might think of it as a form of stealing, its certainly dishonest and unethical. But, despite that some are very good at it an very effective at getting what they want. And the messes they leave behind are usually up to the "nurturing healing" types to deal with. Assuming the damage isn't so severe that its beyond most to help.

quote:

A domineering sort tends to do so out of neediness and insecurity. These are the power hungry ones seeking to fill an empty space inside. They will steadfastly insist they have no lacks,but thier behavior and constant demands say otherwise. These are the drama queens,micromanagers..The ones who nit pick every detail and look for piddly reasons to punish. The kind who insists you call him by a title immediately. You can tell these sorts by a feeling of tension relating to them. The feeling you are walking on eggs in thier presence,and that they are barely in emotional control at any moment.


Gemeni, basically we agree. There is one thing I've seen said by you an others that I disagree with. That is that domineering types are necessarily insecure. This isn't true. Sometimes its true, but not always. Adler explains that individuals have varying degrees of social interest. Those with high social itnerest are more empathetic to others, more likely to be sociable and cooperative. Those with low social interest also have low empathy towards others. These are the ones who develop psychopathic and sociopathic personalities. They are most likely to become solipsist (someone who views others as objects, but not in the lifestyle sense of the concept). It is entirely possible for a domineering type to simply be a person of low empathy and low social interest who sees submissives as objects to be used. These individuals can be quite confident, and very secure in who they are... an more than a little scary when you realize they really are confident about that.

We ought to be careful about saying this person or that is insecure... because ultimately that is true of all of us. We all have our insecurities and we all tend to be hesitant when we are dealing with things unknown to us... that's part of being human. It is not someone who is insecure we need to worry about, but someone who cannot admit they have insecurities, someone who cannot ask for advice, cannot admit they don't know everything.

quote:

I personally have never met a dominant who didn't work and doesn't continue to work hard to maintain relationships and progress with their slaves.

Now, their chemistry with their slave and their attitude/charisma might be so nonchalant and natural as to be effortless, but the relationship as a dominant themselves definitely requires work.


I whole heartedly agree... being a good dominant... a good dominant leader, is a constant work in progress. There is always something new to learn, always a weak area that needs improving. Relationships always need attention and effort. There's no free ride.


_____________________________

Padriag

A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

(in reply to lil1v)
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RE: Dominating vs. Controlling AND/OR Domineering - 4/8/2005 12:43:21 PM   
lil1v


Posts: 125
Joined: 4/4/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Padriag


What a domineering type tries to do is cheat by using force in the form of intimidation, bullying, violence, tearing down self esteem, etc. to get what they want without making that fair exchange... and that makes it abusive.


On this I agree wholeheartedly.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Padriag
Gemeni, basically we agree. There is one thing I've seen said by you an others that I disagree with. That is that domineering types are necessarily insecure. This isn't true. Sometimes its true, but not always. Adler explains that individuals have varying degrees of social interest. Those with high social itnerest are more empathetic to others, more likely to be sociable and cooperative. Those with low social interest also have low empathy towards others. These are the ones who develop psychopathic and sociopathic personalities. They are most likely to become solipsist (someone who views others as objects, but not in the lifestyle sense of the concept). It is entirely possible for a domineering type to simply be a person of low empathy and low social interest who sees submissives as objects to be used. These individuals can be quite confident, and very secure in who they are... an more than a little scary when you realize they really are confident about that.


Ah yes.. Adler.. What many take into account is the reasons for these various degrees of social interest. There are some, but very very very few that are sociopathic/psychopathic from birth. Most who have these tendancies are because of tramas that happened to them over the years. These tramatic events lead them to build up walls and house their inner being and shelter it. Now we all do this to some degree, but in these cases the person has had the walls so long they no longer consider them walls at all. Their walls, adjusted persona, the shelter has become them and they whole heartedly believe in the person they created themselves to be as the "real" them. The more they believe it the more "real" that persona becomes.

These persons often cannot connect to all parts of themselves. Often their emotions (often seen as weakness btw) are unattainable even to them. Their own insecurities/fears (eventually walls) will not let them access or acknowledge it. They are held within their own walls of their own making. Their world is often simple. Black/white. Right/wrong. Left untouched, unbridled, untreated.. these personalities can become (as Padriag said) solipsist.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Padriag
We ought to be careful about saying this person or that is insecure... because ultimately that is true of all of us. We all have our insecurities and we all tend to be hesitant when we are dealing with things unknown to us... that's part of being human. It is not someone who is insecure we need to worry about, but someone who cannot admit they have insecurities, someone who cannot ask for advice, cannot admit they don't know everything.


Yes we all have our own insecurities. The problem with the Domineer is that they often don't see their insecurities. There are a few that do, but refuse to acknowledge it because of their own fears of someone seeing through their walls. It takes a lot of energy to keep up the walls, to know your insecurities and hide them. It usually comes down to becoming sociopathic personality where you shut yourself off from yourself, or you break down and actually deal with the issues you've tried so hard to hide.

Well.. I hope that made some kind of sense.. Probably not.. but oh well..

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RE: Dominating vs. Controlling AND/OR Domineering - 4/9/2005 5:05:06 AM   
Padriag


Posts: 2633
Joined: 3/30/2005
Status: offline 		Someone else who actually know's who Adler is, always nice to know.

There can be a lot of reasons for low social interest other than just trauma. Lack of parental affection, lack of social contact or lack of positive social contact, never developing the social skills for successful interaction, extreme introversion, and so on an so on. Whatever the reason doesn't really matter, you still end up with a domineering dominant personality in this lifestyle. Other than just out of academic interest on a personal level I don't really much care why they are domineering, only the effect it has on people in this lifestyle I might care about. I've seen such individuals do a lot of damage.

I'd like to think that all dominants strive to be dominant leaders, but that isn't true. While many are not domineering, they aren't dominant leaders either. I believe there is a large group out there of dominants who are "median" dominants for lack of a better term. They're in the middle, not really domineering but at times falling back on domineering tactics. Not really dominant leaders, but possessing some leadership skills that have never really been honed. I don't believe dominant leaders exist naturally, the potential yes, but the skills to be effective need to be developed through experience and education. To pursue that requires effort on the part of the dominant and there are many that just don't seem to make the effort, or only make a limited effort. The result is we have a sort of sliding scale... at one end we have domineering dominants, at the other end is the ideal dominant leader... in the broad middle are median dominants who mix qualities of both to varying degrees.

_____________________________

Padriag

A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

(in reply to lil1v)
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RE: Dominating vs. Controlling AND/OR Domineering - 4/9/2005 11:47:57 AM   
lil1v


Posts: 125
Joined: 4/4/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Padriag


There can be a lot of reasons for low social interest other than just trauma. Lack of parental affection, lack of social contact or lack of positive social contact, never developing the social skills for successful interaction, extreme introversion, and so on an so on.


well I just grouped all that under "trauma" as it was easier and most of that can be traumatic to a child. I guess my definition of what constitutes trauma is a touch liberal.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Padriag
I don't really much care why they are domineering, only the effect it has on people in this lifestyle I might care about. I've seen such individuals do a lot of damage.


True and I agree. They also give those who are as you call them "dominant leaders" a bad rep as many who view this lifestyle only see the ones making the biggest noise which are usually domineers.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Padriag
I don't believe dominant leaders exist naturally, the potential yes, but the skills to be effective need to be developed through experience and education. To pursue that requires effort on the part of the dominant and there are many that just don't seem to make the effort, or only make a limited effort. The result is we have a sort of sliding scale... at one end we have domineering dominants, at the other end is the ideal dominant leader... in the broad middle are median dominants who mix qualities of both to varying degrees.


I agree there are various types of dom/mes in the lifestyle. I do believe that dominant leaders exist naturally (meaning without concious cultivation) but mostly those are natural leaders with high set of personal morals and the desire to nurture and guide. It takes a conscious effort to improve oneself and there are those on both sides Dom/me and sub that do not bother to make that effort in any area of their life.

I believe the biggest fault or mistake a person can make is to convince themselves they are perfect and not in need of improvement. There is always some area you can improve in. Always.




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(in reply to Padriag)
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