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RE: Death Penalty - 2/21/2007 1:52:25 PM   
caitlyn


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

Keep in mind that you are only hearing one side of this story.

caitlyn:
Should you be interested in the other side of the story I would think that it would be easy enough for you to acquaint yourself with it.
thompson


I didn't indicate that I agreed with the link, or not. I didn't support the death penalty, or not. It was strictly raw information, and a statement of the obvious.

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 101
RE: Death Penalty - 2/21/2007 1:53:01 PM   
SDFemDom4cuck


Posts: 2809
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From: P'burgh PA
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quote:

Then I was struck with a clue-by-four. The lead detective drove a thousand miles to talk to me and ensure his conviction. After the interview and I had tied up the loose ends that would ensure his conviction, the detective told me that he understood where I was coming from but had I considered the possibility of him escaping. Given less than the death penalty would allow him the luxury of killing other inmates, or escaping and killing others. That clue-by-four smacked me between the eyes and I no longer questioned the validity of the death penalty, just the validity in how that decision is reached. In this case he was without question guilty. All the "i's" were dotted and the "t's" were crossed. He was nailed nine ways to midnight and the judge should have just took him out back and shot him. Hell I would have given him the bullet to do it.

 
I couldn't have said it better. I was at one time a staunch opponent of the death penalty. Even throughout most of the trial of a man who killed 3 members of my family over $7.26 I was speaking against the death penalty being part of the possible sentencing. I felt that as a human he had to have some redeeming quality and that his being imprisoned for life would be enough of a punishment.
 
The detective and prosecuter sat down with me one day and asked how I would feel if this young man were to eventually get out of prison and commit this same crime to another family. They explained the meaning of a Life sentence in that state. The chances of his actually serving "life" in prison were very slim and he would have gotten out eventually at still a relatively young age. Rather than a clue by four I would compare that moment of comprehension to being hit by a Mack Truck. His death wouldn't bring back my family members,  but it would most definitely ensure that no other human would have to endure the heartache we did and still do.
 
Am I saying that some convictions aren't mistaken? No I'm not. Am I saying that every murderer should recieve the death penalty? No I am not. What I am saying is that given the situation I dealt with, the history of the person that committed the murders involved, and the likely hood of it happening again I know that the death penalty was the correct sentence for the individual situation. I was able to spend 15 minutes on the night he was put to death speaking with him. I looked in his eyes and saw no remorse. I listened to him speak of his love for his family and heard not an ounce of regret for those of us that loved Robin, Scott and their unborn child. I heard excuse after excuse of why the crime was committed but not a word of apology or acknowledgement of what he had done to our family was spoken. I spent a great deal of time in thought the evening before the sentence was carried out as to what my last words would be to this man who had hurt so many people over something so petty. Only 3 words came to mind that I could live the rest of my life having said without regret.
 
"I forgive you."
 
His reaction...He laughed, and said " Well, Good for you"
 
I don't regret saying them, and I don't regret watching him die.
 
 



_____________________________

Ms Jo

She dealt her pretty words like Blades -
How glittering they shone -
And every One unbared a Nerve
Or wantoned with a Bone -

I want a sensitive man - one who'll cry when I hit him.

(in reply to Wulfchyld)
Profile   Post #: 102
RE: Death Penalty - 2/21/2007 2:30:20 PM   
seeksfemslave


Posts: 4011
Joined: 6/16/2006
Status: offline 		Wulfchyld is quite wrong IMO to tell GeekyGirl to "back away" simply because she is expressing opinions with which he does not agree.

What you soft option <lets understand the criminals and treat them nice types> simply will not accept is that your methods have been tried and have totally failed. Certainly here in the UK. After 30 years of this we have prisons bursting at the seams.
If prison establishments represent income or profit, so does the trick cyclist  industry who, if there was any sense left in this crazy world ,would be exposed for the charlatans that they are.

Keep 'em locked up and dont trust 'em at all Geeky, thats what I say ! I mean the inmates !
By the way, rehabilitation, who knows how to do that then ?!?

(in reply to SDFemDom4cuck)
Profile   Post #: 103
RE: Death Penalty - 2/21/2007 2:34:17 PM   
subrob1967


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
subrob1967:
Should this sort of thing ever happen to you would you like this quip on your tombstone?
thompson


I prefer Sausage and Pepperoni on my Tombstone

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 104
RE: Death Penalty - 2/21/2007 2:38:19 PM   
cjenny


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Joined: 11/27/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

Wulfchyld is quite wrong IMO to tell GeekyGirl to "back away" simply because she is expressing opinions with which he does not agree.

What you soft option <lets understand the criminals and treat them nice types> simply will not accept is that your methods have been tried and have totally failed. Certainly here in the UK. After 30 years of this we have prisons bursting at the seams.
If prison establishments represent income or profit, so does the trick cyclist  industry who, if there was any sense left in this crazy world ,would be exposed for the charlatans that they are.

Keep 'em locked up and dont trust 'em at all Geeky, thats what I say ! I mean the inmates !
By the way, rehabilitation, who knows how to do that then ?!?



I got the impression he was asking her to back off for quite a different reason. By persisting   geekygirl was actually hurting her stance, bringing emotion into it wasn't a good tactic. She did a wonderful analytical job of presenting her view & experiences, adding emotion muddied her waters.

Sometimes it is best to present ones case and backing off further comments so as to secure ones position.

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(in reply to seeksfemslave)
Profile   Post #: 105
RE: Death Penalty - 2/21/2007 2:44:23 PM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bludemonn

errrm please be careful what you say here, true the way in which the UK police processed these murderers, and they were murderers NOT terrorists, was at best questionable due to new testing systems introduced in order to question old ones also certain policemen not following procedure does NOT make them innocent. Tell me this, how many death sentences and atrocities did these 'innocent irish terrorists' commit under false propaganda such as 'free Ireland', many 'patriots' and 'irish americans' will tell you Ireland & England have had troubles for centuries but they wont tell you of the Irishmen who have fought alongside and died with the British in wars such as the Napoleonic wars, the first & second world wars. sorry going off the point here...my point is MANY were NOT innocent and how would you feel if you saw Al-Qeada members who were open about being Al-Qeada let out free, given welfare and then elected (sinn fein) into fucking parliment! We didnt rethink our judicial system we just realised you cannot fight propaganda when you are dealing with cowardly murderers such as the IRA.              


I was being a little ironic using the term 'innocent Irish terrorists' because they can't be both. The law has strict protocols of arrest and collecting of evidence to prevent miscarriages of justice. If the law enforcement agencies shortcut or try to corrupt those protocols then they are the ones that are guilty of letting guilty people go free because the guilt or innocence of the accused can't be tested in court. If an accused can't have a fair trial then they are innocent in the eys of the law, even if they are as guilty as hell. That is the price society has to pay for wanting to be civilised.

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(in reply to bludemonn)
Profile   Post #: 106
RE: Death Penalty - 2/21/2007 2:50:00 PM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		Re: The topic of the mentally ill in the U.S. - Even if one isn't mentally ill, a few months on the steets not knowing where one's next meal is coming from might very well make someone mentally ill (I am not kidding, either).

I have a  website I used to look at, because I appreciate old, ornate architecture. It is called AbandonedAsylums.com. On it, you can view pics of the hundreds of huge and still (in many cases) somewhat beautiful Kirkbride (a style of architecture) buildings that were built from about 1840 - 1940 to house, until the mid-1960's, the thousands of real mentally ill people (and also to house the irritating relatives that some families just wanted declared insane, because they were hard to deal with. It didn't used to be as difficult as it is today to have someone comitted to an insane asylum).

They were filled to bursting in the 1940's and 1950's especially - people were literally sleeping in the hallways on the floor, there was such a lack of beds and space. They cost hundreds of thousands of dollars to build, and now they sit empty.

With all of the homeless in America, I sometimes find myself wondering why the government doesn't re-furbish some of these buildings, simply to provide housing for more homeless people, not simply mentally ill homeless people. But I suppose I am going off on a tangent, here...

- Susan 

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 2/21/2007 3:17:39 PM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 107
RE: Death Penalty - 2/21/2007 2:53:18 PM   
seeksfemslave


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Joined: 6/16/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL MC
The law has strict protocols of arrest and collecting of evidence to prevent miscarriages of justice.


These protocols have developed to an absurd degree such that even spelling the accused's name incorrectly or getting some minor detail wrong may be sufficient reason to drop the charges.

Cherie Booth, Mrs Tony Blair, was reported has having used the misspelling defence. What kind of justice is that ?

(in reply to meatcleaver)
Profile   Post #: 108
RE: Death Penalty - 2/21/2007 3:02:12 PM   
subrob1967


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Joined: 9/13/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

Wulfchyld:
I thought the constitution made a pretty clear prohibition against corporal punishment in this country...but then as GWB has said "its just a goddamned piece of paper"
thompson


Wrong, with due process the U.S. governement can fuck you up the ass with a kitana, and it's legal.

Fifth Ammendment.

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.
 
 
 

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 109
RE: Death Penalty - 2/21/2007 3:03:20 PM   
seeksfemslave


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Joined: 6/16/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL cjenny
By persisting   geekygirl was actually hurting her stance, bringing emotion into it wasn't a good tactic. She did a wonderful analytical job of presenting her view & experiences, adding emotion muddied her waters.


Fair point. I did skim thru' a lot of posts and I may have missed that.
Maybe GeekyGirls gets emotional because she experiences every day the vicious (sp?) low cunning, and pitiless violence that many serious criminals are capable of ?

Apart from double jeapardy whats wrong with the 5th Amendment ?

< Message edited by seeksfemslave -- 2/21/2007 3:08:01 PM >

(in reply to seeksfemslave)
Profile   Post #: 110
RE: Death Penalty - 2/21/2007 3:03:58 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		Ah, the Fifth Amendment. Please explain Gitmo's existence within that context.





_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to subrob1967)
Profile   Post #: 111
RE: Death Penalty - 2/21/2007 3:07:47 PM   
subrob1967


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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Ah, the Fifth Amendment. Please explain Gitmo's existence within that context.



Iraqis, Iranians, Jordinians, Syrians, Palestinians, or Saudis are not U.S. citizens, therefore not subject to protection of the Constitution of the U.S.

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 112
RE: Death Penalty - 2/21/2007 3:11:12 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		good answer----wow!!!!!

and for the americans incarcerated there, what will be pulled out of an ass for that? Given the statement as you expressed it yourself....right there, out loud, in writing---



Houdini 

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(in reply to subrob1967)
Profile   Post #: 113
RE: Death Penalty - 2/21/2007 3:11:22 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Ah, the Fifth Amendment. Please explain Gitmo's existence within that context.



Iraqis, Iranians, Jordinians, Syrians, Palestinians, or Saudis are not U.S. citizens, therefore not subject to protection of the Constitution of the U.S.


That's a hell of an incorrect hypothesis. What CITATION from the Constitution says that? Seems the 14th Amendment is clear between citizens and persons, and extends its protections to PERSONS.

Likewise, the 5th Amendment DOES NOT SAY CITIZEN, it says PERSON.

You *do* know what "A PERSON" is?

5th Amendment:

"No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation."



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to subrob1967)
Profile   Post #: 114
RE: Death Penalty - 2/21/2007 3:11:49 PM   
seeksfemslave


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Joined: 6/16/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle
Ah, the Fifth Amendment. Please explain Gitmo's existence within that context.


I think the US is shooting itself in the foot with "Guantanamo" but there is no violation of the 5th there True ? Read it FargleBargle  Bit abrupt but I wanted to post quickly.

< Message edited by seeksfemslave -- 2/21/2007 3:16:35 PM >

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 115
RE: Death Penalty - 2/21/2007 3:14:05 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		Doesn't "Due Process" mean Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure?

If that's "Due Process" for Irv Libby, isn't that the standard of "Due Process" for all. Or is that better covered under the 14th Amendment "Equal Protection" clause?




_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to seeksfemslave)
Profile   Post #: 116
RE: Death Penalty - 2/21/2007 3:15:39 PM   
Sinergy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle
Ah, the Fifth Amendment. Please explain Gitmo's existence within that context.


I think the US is shooting itself in the foot with the "Guantanamo" but there is no violation of the 5th there True ? Read it FargleBargle


So those homo sapien life forms currently held without bond or access to counsel in Gitmo are not technically persons, seeks?

He did read it, and even posted the amendment so you could.   Perhaps you should read it as well.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to seeksfemslave)
Profile   Post #: 117
RE: Death Penalty - 2/21/2007 3:21:36 PM   
seeksfemslave


Posts: 4011
Joined: 6/16/2006
Status: offline 		No Sinergy I was referring to the time of War public danger exception.

(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 118
RE: Death Penalty - 2/21/2007 3:22:51 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

No Sinergy I was referring to the time of War public danger exception.


We're not at War. Ask Alberto Gonzoles. He testified to that fact in front of Congress.

And who but the Attorney General and Congress would know better?

In any event "except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger;" doesn't permit you to have CIVILIAN law enforcement take a Canadian Citizen off a plane at JFK, and send him to Syria to be tortured.



< Message edited by farglebargle -- 2/21/2007 3:24:57 PM >

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to seeksfemslave)
Profile   Post #: 119
RE: Death Penalty - 2/21/2007 3:23:37 PM   
Sinergy


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Joined: 4/26/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

No Sinergy I was referring to the time of War public danger exception.


Well, if you think about it.  Monkeyboy declared war against a tactic.

The problem is, seeks, the United States is not currently at war with anybody.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to seeksfemslave)
Profile   Post #: 120
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