Brooklyn jury given graphic S&M lesson

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Brooklyn jury given graphic S&M lesson - 2/23/2007 1:10:53 AM

gandalf0297

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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070223/ap_on_re_us/s_m_on_trial_2
Food for thought.

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RE: Brooklyn jury given graphic S&M lesson - 2/23/2007 4:07:57 AM

wolffeathers

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One day, someone will force the goverment to say what obsene really is. As, well, if someone finds CNN's website Obsene, then per current laws, it is.....

Strange how that works....

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RE: Brooklyn jury given graphic S&M lesson - 2/23/2007 6:26:25 AM

onestandingstill

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I think the courts indeed need to temper their personal view with the notion there was consent between these individuals.
I would not want to have to be one sitting in the jury box trying to decide where the lines of consent lay in someone elses relationships though.
I think if the general consensus of witnesses lean toward she enjoyed this sort of relationship and only claimed it was abusive after the fact while bragging during the relationship I'd have to side with the sadist.
A difficult court room to be in on all sides IMO.
suzanne

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RE: Brooklyn jury given graphic S&M lesson - 2/23/2007 6:39:14 AM

SusanofO

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I agree, onestandingstill. How many marriages or sexual relationships are they gonna end up potentially investigating, if the government starts judging (from the outside) what two peope do if they consent? I mean, a lotta people have web-cams these days, and there's a lotta "porn" on the market, too.

People are getting a definite one-sided view of what bdsm is (or can be) with the view of what happened here. I do think that's a shame, I do. There are probably so many more people who practice bdsm that don't behave like this, than that do - but then again, that may be jury why this man was on trial to begin with (or maybe that was the OP's point?) And although I consider this guy's bdsm practices a bit "extreme", I am sure he is some people's "cup of tea", somewhere.

There is some information left out of this account (IMO).

Were the videos within reach of unmentionables, wherever they were being sold? If so, I'd (probably) side with the jury, too.

The "Svengali" guy does sound (actually) like he might have a loose screw...it was obvious (to me) the female had with-drawn her consent when she asked him to take her video off the Internet, and he still refused to do it. But she could have done that in pure "revenge" mode (it doesn't say)...

I am not very educated as far as local vs. national law. I always thought this type of decision was a local, community decision - re: What is really considered "obscene", too. So how come Attorney General Gonzales was involved here?

To me, that's the scariest part of this account. If she consented to make the video (at the time she made it) is that really "sex traffickking?" (sp?) Maybe it is (I am not sure). I guess it is if the feds decide it's "porn"? I thought the people in individual communities decided if something is porn.

My only consolation is that there is just so much so-called potential "porn" on the internet for them to invesigate, that maybe someone could bring "un-fairness" charges against the feds for not investigating every, single possible occurrence out there - in favor of targeting a few instances they see as particularly offensive? Or maybe that tactic would backfire.

I am not a lawyer. Any lawyers out there?...

_ Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 2/23/2007 7:07:21 AM >

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RE: Brooklyn jury given graphic S&M lesson - 2/23/2007 6:55:59 AM

onestandingstill

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quote:

The "Svengali" guy does sound (actually) like he might have a loose screw...it was obvious (to me) the female had with-drawn her consent when she asked him to take her video off the Internet, and he still refused to do it.

I thought the people in individual communities decided if something is porn

Hi susan,
I think much like a movie star in a photo shoot once she consented to the film being publicized then he had a right to continue ownership of it.
I mean look at the whole Paris Hilton sex tape for example and that wasn't even published consensually.

As far as what decides porn those laws come from the State & Congress, not the community.
suzanne

< Message edited by onestandingstill -- 2/23/2007 6:56:55 AM >

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RE: Brooklyn jury given graphic S&M lesson - 2/23/2007 6:57:50 AM

SusanofO

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onestandingstill: Oh, okay. Thanks for the information.

- Susan

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RE: Brooklyn jury given graphic S&M lesson - 2/23/2007 6:58:14 AM

Celeste43

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If he's the one I'm thinking of, he blackmailed her into staying with him by threatening to send the s & m pics to the school system where she was interviewing for a job. He also demanded she get her sister to become his next slave and that the two sisters have sex. That's when she went for help.

She withdrew consent and his response was blackmail. He's a twit.

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RE: Brooklyn jury given graphic S&M lesson - 2/23/2007 6:59:32 AM

SusanofO

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Celeste43: Thanks for the information.

- Susan

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RE: Brooklyn jury given graphic S&M lesson - 2/23/2007 7:19:27 AM

sadisticmaster11

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Way to go Glenn Marcus. I hope you get a victory in court and make us all proud.

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RE: Brooklyn jury given graphic S&M lesson - 2/23/2007 7:27:01 AM

sambamanslilgirl

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quote:

In recent years, federal authorities have stepped up prosecutions of purveyors of hardcore adult pornography to "protect citizens from unwanted exposure to obscene material," Attorney General Alberto Gonzales has said.

quote:

Under the Bush administration, at least 52 people or businesses have been convicted of violating federal obscenity statutes, and more than a dozen indictments are pending, federal officials said.

one day the government might target sites like this

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RE: Brooklyn jury given graphic S&M lesson - 2/23/2007 7:31:01 AM

meatcleaver

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It just seems to be a problem of moralistic laws to me. If you don't want anything publicized, don't do it in the first place, don't consent and if you do, don't crap on the person you've been dealing with.

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RE: Brooklyn jury given graphic S&M lesson - 2/23/2007 7:39:28 AM

CreativeDominant

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quote:

ORIGINAL: gandalf0297

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070223/ap_on_re_us/s_m_on_trial_2
Food for thought.

Going by the story alone and with no other sources, it sounds as if she entered into a contract with the dominant in question and then withdrew her consent by ending the relationship. At that point, the videos and pix that are referred to seem to become the "sticking point". In many vanilla relationships, video is shot of the couple's sexual antics (part of the reason for increasing sales of video cams as price decreased) and in probably even more bedrooms, pix are shot. When separation or divorce occurs, what does the law have to say regarding these pix and videos: who do they belong to? does that party have the right to make money off the sale of these? Seems to me like that same law could be applied in this case.

I'm not a lawyer but I imagine his lawyer would counter that her contract specifically stated that pix/videos made of her while she was in service to him would remain his property to do with as he wished. But...if the jury refuses to recognize the D/s contract, that argument is null and void. And even if they do recognize the contract for other aspects of their relationship to her, I would imagine that there is some law that states you cannot profit off someone's unpaid labors.

Personally...I think the guy is someone who believes his own line of B.S. regarding M/s and/or D/s a little too zealously and doesn't spend quite enough time researching legality and possible consequences.

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RE: Brooklyn jury given graphic S&M lesson - 2/23/2007 7:31:52 PM

SCDommie

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Granted, this G character was a bit extreme, but she sounded like she enjoyed this. She stayed with him a while.
All she wants is her pictures off the net. I do not put my picture here, or on any other site.
Folks we have to really think because the Internet is an open shop to anything the world has to offer.
All of our groups are under attack from law because of this type thing. Just be careful who you make a slave, and how you conduct affairs over the internet. What a jerk. Give her pictures back. This is my opinion on the lifestyle, and SM, no matter how we try and sugar coat it, it looks crazy to the outside world.

SCD

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RE: Brooklyn jury given graphic S&M lesson - 2/23/2007 7:38:06 PM

angelic

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~fast reply~
"I felt like I was literally in hell," she said. "I felt like I was on fire and I couldn't put it out." (from the article).....does not sound to me like this was consentual.

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RE: Brooklyn jury given graphic S&M lesson - 2/24/2007 8:24:39 PM

MsCfromMelbourne

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yes, but she says "other times" not "another time" he tied her down and mutilated her genitals with a smoldering cigarette

In other words, she went back for more. I know people who have been burned with cigarettes and begged for more. And needles. And sutures of the mouth.

I do not know if this case was consensual masochism or a terrible case of Stockholm's Syndrome. The court will have to work that one out.

However, its a salutary warning. It is difficult when a relationship ends badly to get the other person to delete their pictures of you. And embarassing email.

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RE: Brooklyn jury given graphic S&M lesson - 2/24/2007 10:01:21 PM

moki1984

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who knows...but i wonder how many people in that jury box went home that weekend and their husband or wife had a lil needle play or pulled out a single tail whip? i wouldnt be suprised if at least one person in that court room went home and said "guess what i seen at work today , sir"

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RE: Brooklyn jury given graphic S&M lesson - 2/24/2007 10:20:48 PM

Sternhand4

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After reading up a bit on this case I found a few interesting things..

1) Although presumed innocent till found guilty, this mans full name is in the press, and the ladies ( on both sides ) are identified by only their first names, A clear double standard, Even if he's found not guilty, he's always going to pay for this.

2) Consent is the key issue here, can you remove consent after the fact? The marcus guy had a contract.. If we're all adults shouldnt that be enough.

3) Apparently the woman in question did leave the guy, started her own web site which had a similar theme. Could that be her motive in asking for her pics back? She vacationed with the guy after leaving him. Why would she go near him if he had mistreated her so bad and outside of the consent she had given.

4) The worst charge pending stems from him making her work on the web site without pay. Remember this the next time you have a sub perform a service task.

S

< Message edited by Sternhand4 -- 2/24/2007 10:23:19 PM >

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