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RE: Why is the word slave so negative? - 3/4/2007 11:21:31 AM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline 		Slave isn't a negative word, that isn't the issue.  People who are insecure latch onto labels like drowning people to anything that floats. 

They pick a label that they feel is "better" and then they attack anyone who doesn't identify with it and by putting others down, they feel they are better.

Combine that with how many internet idiots (my prejudice) want to be "extreme" and so they imagine being a slave makes them more; pure, deeper, submissive, real, etc. despite the fact that many of us seem them as the exact opposite and wouldn't even grace them by calling them SAMs!

I generally stay out of this debate because challenging people's cherished illusions is a losing battle.  They only learn by experience and exposure to real life realities and nothing I can do will accelerate that growth.

(in reply to myobedience)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Why is the word slave so negative? - 3/4/2007 11:29:07 AM   
danreeves


Posts: 58
Joined: 3/5/2006
Status: offline 		what quite is the diff. between a slave and a submission?? one perhaps will to give all-and on partial??

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Why is the word slave so negative? - 3/4/2007 11:38:52 AM   
BRNaughtyAngel


Posts: 1821
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: heartfeltsub
Part of it i think go back to this hierarchy mentality that crept in a while ago, and part of it is our own insecurities. For some the term slave has become a "badge" to be earned, or so it seems. And some of those who don't ever want to "earn" that "badge" seem to feel the need to denigrate the "badge" so they feel better about not trying to earn it.



Yes!  I think what happens a lot of times is slave A posts that she does blah, blah, blah and blah.  Submissive A looks at those things and says, hmmmmmmm I don't do those things, so I guess she is saying she's better than me because she's a slave and does that stuff.  So then sub A gets on her high horse and says that slaves are weak, unmotivated, mindless doormats...... whatever. 

Then you have the reverse where sub A posts that she does blah, blah, and blah, but she'd never do this, that or the other because she is not a doormat, etc.... Slave A reads it and says, well hmmmmmmmmm, she's saying I'm a doormat because I do those things that she doesn't and she's saying she's better than me. 

I guess I just don't understand the need to publically insult or belittle people who are just living their lives in a manner that is different from your own.  And yes, there are ways to state a differing opinion without being rude or obnoxious, but I see that quality is lacking in some folks, which then sparks more back and forth debates peppered with insults.

I am what He says I am......... His slave.  That's all that matters to me.

(in reply to heartfeltsub)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Why is the word slave so negative? - 3/4/2007 11:44:21 AM   
myobedience


Posts: 472
Joined: 1/28/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: petstorm

quote:

ORIGINAL: myobedience

quote:

ORIGINAL: petstorm

In my opinion..... People put a negative tone to slave (and submissive, and even Master, Mistress, Dom/me, etc) because they don't understand you or have heard negative things about what it is to be one.

What's the difference? The difference is in  your own heart. It's up to you to define who and what you really are, inside and out. Some say it's up to whatever your Dom or Master calls you... i don't agree. YOU have to feel what it is that you are.

i see myself as a slave because in my heart, i have completely surrendered to my Master. He's my world, and there's very little i would deny him. Even old limits that were there when i first submitted to him have been shed, because i trust him. Because i feel safe with him. Because i love him. Because i have this driving need in me to fuel a fire i can't even possibly begin to explain. i don't just submit, it's what i have become.

Can i tell you when i crossed that line? Can i look back and say right there! That's when i went from being a submissive to a slave. Not a chance. It's something that happened all on it's own, and it has nothing to do with how i serve, or what i do.

SLAVE:
–noun
1.
a person who is the property of and wholly subject to another; a bond servant.
2.
a person entirely under the domination of some influence or person: a slave to a drug.
3.
a drudge: a housekeeping slave.

i am a slave to my heart. And if anyone wishes to put that into a negative light, they're most welcome to, because what i share with my Master is anything BUT negative. And that's what really matters.


Going back to definitions ...such a waste of time and energy.  YOU and HE DEFINE who you are not a dictionary.
jmho


Sometimes going to what a word means or where it comes from helps put things into perspective. Did you actually read what i wrote? Or are you just criticizing me again because you can?


OMG petstorm...... PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE  criticizing you is the farthest from my mind !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If that is how you take my posts,
I APOLOGIZE TO THE MAX!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  
I will refrain from posting to ANYTHING you write if you think I am only criticizing you.

_____________________________

With grace and gratitude, I am owned.
A Man who always seeks to be the best He can be for you is the only Man truly worthy of being called Master.

(in reply to petstorm)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Why is the word slave so negative? - 3/4/2007 12:07:07 PM   
VeryPrivateMstr


Posts: 21
Joined: 12/5/2006
Status: offline 		slavegirljoy posted numerous labels that applied to her in her lifetime. It made me think that labels are somewhat defined by our actions, and the amount of time someone has to devote to something. Like being a student. i think you can only say you are a student when you are actively enrolled in school, attending classes, studying, etc. If you stop doing these things, the label student no longer applies.

Does the amount of time you have to devote to your lifestyle self help determine the label? 
Does a certain amount of training give you a label for life? (such as the label "graduate")

i like these threads, even if they are repeated, because someone always manages to say something that makes me think.

Private Master's girl

(in reply to petstorm)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Why is the word slave so negative? - 3/4/2007 12:31:33 PM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline 		BRN,

See, you do it too.  You make the assumption that someone who calls themselves slave is "more" than a submissive.  I have seen plenty of slaves who I wouldn't let bottom to me, and I have seen submissives who are strong and yet have few if any limits, obey instantly, and are a dream to own.

Its a label, it is about as thick as the paper it is printed on.

(in reply to BRNaughtyAngel)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Why is the word slave so negative? - 3/4/2007 1:39:59 PM   
BRNaughtyAngel


Posts: 1821
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

BRN,

See, you do it too.  You make the assumption that someone who calls themselves slave is "more" than a submissive.  I have seen plenty of slaves who I wouldn't let bottom to me, and I have seen submissives who are strong and yet have few if any limits, obey instantly, and are a dream to own.

Its a label, it is about as thick as the paper it is printed on.


I'm confused Michael as I don't see where I've said that a slave is more than a submissive.  I only used a possible example of what sparks debates and oftentimes insults.  But if that's how my post was perceived, my apologies to anyone who may have been offended as that was not my intention.

Trust me when I tell ya that I don't believe one is more or less than the other at all.  I believe there are individuals on here who have achieved a level of submission or slavedom that I only hope that I can achieve, but in no way do I believe that makes them a better slave or submissive than me or anyone else.



(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Why is the word slave so negative? - 3/4/2007 2:06:45 PM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline 		BRN,

First off I respect you and wasn't trying to undermine you.

You wrote:
quote:

  a lot of times is slave A posts that she does blah, blah, blah and blah.  Submissive A looks at those things and says, hmmmmmmm I don't do those things


You are making the assumption that "slaves" do "more"

quote:

the reverse where sub A posts that ... she'd never do this, that or the other because she is not a doormat, etc....


Again, you operating under the assumption that slaves do more than submissives. 

As I have said before, I have seen in real life many who consider themselves slaves who I would NEVER put up with their behavior, their attitude, or their limits. 

The problem is this.  When you want to argue about labels you are NEVER going to resolve anything because there is no fixed definition and so people will always argue over them.

Imagine instead if you wanted to argue over which men were tall.  Clearly anyone over 7' is tall, most would consider anyone over 6'5 tall, but what about 5'11?  You can come up with what YOU consider tall, but someone is always going to set it higher or lower than you are.  Since unlike submission, there is a fixed measurement for height and we STILL can't agree, that make a pretty good argument that the whole thing is silly.

I realize you are on my side of all this but I just wanted to point out why I quoted your post.

(in reply to BRNaughtyAngel)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Why is the word slave so negative? - 3/4/2007 2:20:58 PM   
BRNaughtyAngel


Posts: 1821
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

BRN,

First off I respect you and wasn't trying to undermine you.

You wrote:
quote:

  a lot of times is slave A posts that she does blah, blah, blah and blah.  Submissive A looks at those things and says, hmmmmmmm I don't do those things


You are making the assumption that "slaves" do "more"

quote:

the reverse where sub A posts that ... she'd never do this, that or the other because she is not a doormat, etc....


Again, you operating under the assumption that slaves do more than submissives. 

As I have said before, I have seen in real life many who consider themselves slaves who I would NEVER put up with their behavior, their attitude, or their limits. 

The problem is this.  When you want to argue about labels you are NEVER going to resolve anything because there is no fixed definition and so people will always argue over them.

Imagine instead if you wanted to argue over which men were tall.  Clearly anyone over 7' is tall, most would consider anyone over 6'5 tall, but what about 5'11?  You can come up with what YOU consider tall, but someone is always going to set it higher or lower than you are.  Since unlike submission, there is a fixed measurement for height and we STILL can't agree, that make a pretty good argument that the whole thing is silly.

I realize you are on my side of all this but I just wanted to point out why I quoted your post.


Okey dokey, I gotcha!  I probably should have used a better example. 

But truly, I really don't believe that one does more than the other, or that one is better than the other. 

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Why is the word slave so negative? - 3/4/2007 2:32:35 PM   
beltainefaerie


Posts: 610
Joined: 4/15/2006
Status: offline 		As snarky as such posts usually get, I enjoy our discussions of terms and labels. I have always loved language and how we use it. 
I tend to use submissive and slave as rather interchangeable.  While I can appreciate such concepts as slave being 24/7 and submissive being scene based, it really doesn't fit my world to draw such lines.  I do not live with my Master, but when I interact with him it is always as his. I can't say that I have no limits, but that my Master and husband have created limits regarding me, that are agreeable to them.  We do have "scenes", but our day to day interactions are clearly also D/s.  He has my obedience, submission and devotion.  My collar did not come from my Master, but from my husband who views himself as my owner/keeper.  Master calls me his slave and I appreciate his term for me. In my life, the lines are far too blurred to say "because of x, I am clearly a slave" or "because of y, I am clearly a submissive".  On this site, I fit more people's definition of submissive and so, I tend to use that term for the sake of clarity.  However, I also use the term sisterslave for Master's wife who serves with me.  It probably drives some people crazy, but it is what we call each other.  Sometimes I use the term slave, because it is what he calls me.
Overall, I really don't care whether people call themselves slave, submissive, pet, servant, maid, it, or this girl.  What is important is their own relationship, of which I am not a part.  I can't tell anyone else how to define their relationship, role or give terms to their service unless I am invited to do so. If we could work on gaining understanding of one another and the many ways we live all of this out rather than trying to decide who is better, we would be a lot more interesting and productive. 
Of course, I also find something deeply funny about slaves and submissives battling it out over who is more subservient, who is more lowly and completely devoted.  It seems like a battle over who is the most humble or somesuch.  If you need to prove you are better than someone, that isn't very submissive.  Of course it isn't dominant to boast either.  In any orientation it is rather obnoxious. 
Just my 2 cents.

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Why is the word slave so negative? - 3/4/2007 2:38:49 PM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

But truly, I really don't believe that one does more than the other, or that one is better than the other. 


I know, which is why I responded to you! 

(in reply to BRNaughtyAngel)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Why is the word slave so negative? - 3/4/2007 3:03:01 PM   
julietsierra


Posts: 1841
Joined: 9/26/2004
Status: offline 		Well, I don't presume to answer for others, but personally, I've not found the whole "going to war" issue between slaves and submissives. They're different terms, defined differently based on the relationships between different people.

That being said, I CAN answer why I have had problems with the terms though.

You see, when we first met and started getting to know each other, I said I was a submissive. He talked about poly. I asked a lot of questions. Amongst them was the perinneal questions regarding how he would view me, one of many, or what?  He answered that I was his submissive and that whoever else he located would be his slave. I asked what the difference was. He said he valued a submissive more because they held their ground, etc. He said a slave would exist for what he wanted her for and nothing else..which suited me just fine. Afterall, didn't that just put me heads and shoulders above everyone else? Ego can play such a huge part in all this, but I was just getting to know him, was insecure and not real sure about him in general. He made me feel important to him.

Over the months and years following that however, I have never said no to him. I've been there when he's called, been patient when he's not called, and the like. To understand the magnitude of this, you have to understand that he collared me a year after we started seeing each other and directly following that, for another year, rarely played, touched or was in contact with me other than phone calls. I waited. When we did play, it was for minimal amounts of time and intensity. I waited.

One night, we were talking to someone and he introduced me as his slave. I felt I'd lost some sort of standing with him. I was shocked, hurt and frankly, appalled. I mean, I never said "no" because there was nothing to say "no" to. It was so hard. I spent a lot of time crying - and I waited. When we finally did talk, he told me I was his slave, his submissive, his sidekick and the person he was crazy about. I was the whole package in one person. I held on to that while I thought about this whole idea of being a slave.

Eventually, it occurred to me that "slave" or "submissive" I was still  what I always was - his. And I grudgingly came to acknowledge, accept and embrace this whole concept of "slave" but it was never easy. There are times when my insecurities bite me that I feel that way again. Even so, I am submissive. To the core, I am submissive. And at the same time, I am HIS slave.

That's really all that I need to know. And when I'm being insecure, it's what I hold on to until I can get a better handle on my insecurities.

And what everyone else wants to call themselves is just fine by me. I just wish them well.

juliet

< Message edited by julietsierra -- 3/4/2007 3:07:09 PM >

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Why is the word slave so negative? - 3/4/2007 3:59:16 PM   
BRNaughtyAngel


Posts: 1821
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: julietsierra
Eventually, it occurred to me that "slave" or "submissive" I was still  what I always was - his. And I grudgingly came to acknowledge, accept and embrace this whole concept of "slave" but it was never easy. There are times when my insecurities bite me that I feel that way again. Even so, I am submissive. To the core, I am submissive. And at the same time, I am HIS slave.

That's really all that I need to know. And when I'm being insecure, it's what I hold on to until I can get a better handle on my insecurities.

And what everyone else wants to call themselves is just fine by me. I just wish them well.

juliet


Oh yea!  Reminds me of something that happened at Christmas.  I wasn't looking forward to going to my sisters for the whole family celebration because she likes to target me for "constructive criticisms" about my life.  I was telling Him why I didn't want to go, and that it bothered me how she is always telling me what I should have done and what I need to do, etc...

Anyway, He stopped me in the middle of my explanation as to why I didn't want to go and asked.... "Who do you belong to?"  I said, "I belong to you."  He said, "That's all you need to know.  Now go and have fun." 



(in reply to julietsierra)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Why is the word slave so negative? - 3/4/2007 6:23:16 PM   
sweetnurseBBW


Posts: 2464
Joined: 1/26/2006
From: North Carolina
Status: offline 		I agree with most of what has been said by all so far. Some I guess get caught in labels and need that to define themselves. Lots of times I see because one has their set label and someone else doesn't fit on their view they call them less or something similar. What works for one doesn't define another. When will people get a clue? I won't be holding my breath for that one.

_____________________________

Sir Pain's pain slut

(in reply to BRNaughtyAngel)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Why is the word slave so negative? - 3/4/2007 7:21:08 PM   
MistressDolly


Posts: 917
Joined: 8/24/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetnurseBBW

Having been a slave for 13 years I have noticed there seems to be a war brewing between sub and slave. Why does it matter? Alot we know have different defintions on what a sub a slave is. None are wrong , but why the negative tone? I have seen statements such as " a slave is a mindless drone". "a slave has no rights" a slave is not a free thinker", " a slave is unmotivated" . None of these are true. Why is it a slave gets the negative defintion? I just would like others opinions on the subject.


fear and hatred
ignorance

(in reply to sweetnurseBBW)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Why is the word slave so negative? - 3/4/2007 8:37:49 PM   
slavegirljoy


Posts: 1207
Joined: 11/6/2006
From: North Carolina, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: VeryPrivateMstr
slavegirljoy posted numerous labels that applied to her in her lifetime. It made me think that labels are somewhat defined by our actions, and the amount of time someone has to devote to something. Like being a student. i think you can only say you are a student when you are actively enrolled in school, attending classes, studying, etc. If you stop doing these things, the label student no longer applies.

Does the amount of time you have to devote to your lifestyle self help determine the label? 
Does a certain amount of training give you a label for life? (such as the label "graduate")

i like these threads, even if they are repeated, because someone always manages to say something that makes me think.

Private Master's girl

 
Many labels have been applied to me over the years and one day the label of "Deceased" (hopefully no time soon) will be applied to me.  But, until that time, i will continue to live my life to the fullest and in the manner that suits me and my Master.  The opinions of others, concerning how i live or what term(s) i and my Master have chosen to use to describe who and what i am to Him, are irrelevant.  i am happy to be my Master's slave and only He and i truly understand and appreciate what that means to U/us. 
 
slave joy
Owned property of Master David

(in reply to VeryPrivateMstr)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Why is the word slave so negative? - 3/4/2007 8:57:34 PM   
Arastella


Posts: 262
Joined: 7/22/2006
Status: offline 		I suppose it arrises from the idea that a sub has a great deal more freedom and choices of their own than a slave does, thus the two names as opposed to all submissive people just being called subs or just being called slaves.  

(in reply to sweetnurseBBW)
Profile   Post #: 57
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