RE: Animal Rights (Full Version)

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Rumtiger -> RE: Animal Rights (3/21/2007 5:26:35 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

Since I am just another animal, I only one right, the right to survive,

Exactly, but humans have become more refined than most animals have. We go to the supermarket for our food - very civilised. Animals kill their own food by the means they can.


I already said that.

why do people always do that with my posts? One line out and everything else gets skipped.



missturbation -> RE: Animal Rights (3/21/2007 5:27:18 PM)

The only animals that might have "rights" are domesticted animals that we as humans give rights to. Does a zebra being chased down bt a lion have rights?? i don't think so..
It has the same rights as a lion that is hunted by us! To try and survive.
As rum said the only right anything really has is to survive by any means.



missturbation -> RE: Animal Rights (3/21/2007 5:30:24 PM)

I tend to skip most of your posts because they are just so testosterone filled.  I was talking about evolution and that we have developed more than animals not about being civilised in particular.
Jeeze some people are so touchy [:D]



Sinergy -> RE: Animal Rights (3/21/2007 5:36:26 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

Sure, in an evolutionary sense, we certainly are.

So, where do "rights" come from?

And if you want to make the argument that since we are "just animals", what "rights" does evolution give us, or any other animals?

FirmKY



Interesting point.

I had a thought reading this about the problem that the military has had for eons in training people to kill other people.  Unless you subscribe to some religious or moral belief system, there tends to not be a restriction on killing one's own species.

Yet, people put in an adrenalized situation where they are taking a human life, and they  frequently experience all sorts of physical and psychological stresses from taking a human life.  This spans religions, societies, cultures, whatever. 

Jared Diamond discusses it somewhat in The Third Chimpanzee, where he examines a lot of human mores like monogamy, incest, etc., from the standpoint of what evolutionary advantage this sort of thing has.

As far as the topic, I tend to follow the precept that I have binocular vision and canine teeth.  I dont go out and gratuitously slaughter Bambi, but if I was in a situation where I had to (and I lived off the land with the 10 essentials for a month when I graduated high school) Bambi would be renamed dinner.

What I abhor is waste.  People are overpopulating the system space and driving out all the other species.  Taking this out to it's logical conclusion results in people killing everything else and then turning on each other. This might be prevented if some disease (i.e. Nature steps in) and levels the playing field.

I dont personally think a particular animal has any more right to be here than any other animal, but as Agent Smith pointed out in The Matrix, people grow and expand and destroy their environment, similar to a virus. \

Sinergy



Rumtiger -> RE: Animal Rights (3/21/2007 5:37:33 PM)

sorry the mass hanging between my thighs is a hinderance to you...I'll do my best to lift em up so you can move unburdened.

There are of course circumstances in everything, a favorite quip of mine is "in a survival situation, the only thing you need to know about the Spotted owl is that it tastes like chicken." Seeing as the whole animal kingdom outside our lives is constantly in a situation that's thier right to act in such a way.


Anybody got an answer to my bear question though?

I mean...even mosquitos have a purpose, they can serve as a food source to whatever else...but bears?



missturbation -> RE: Animal Rights (3/21/2007 5:43:20 PM)

sorry the mass hanging between my thighs is a hinderance to you...I'll do my best to lift em up so you can move unburdened.
Don't apologise you are very good proof that animal instinct is in humans. You remind me of the new wolf trying to gain dominance and leadership over the pack. You see every day the evidence of animal behaviour, the women preening for men, the men puffing their chests out to get that beautiful woman to notice them. The house wives nearly coming to blows over the best joints of meat in the supermarket etc etc etc.
I'm pretty sure if you look you'll find there is some culture somwhere that eats bear meat. Also they kill smaller animals for food, all part of nature. Every creature serves its purpose somehow.
Well with the exception of george bush and tony blair.



Rumtiger -> RE: Animal Rights (3/21/2007 5:54:41 PM)

oh I know, rememebr the whole "savage" ect discussion we had a month or so back?

As for Bears, I've seen other cultures and such, but its not a whole purposeful, symbiotic relationship of any type that would account fo te Bear's actual existance on this planet. Whatever land prey they go after is at too low a ratio to really make any difference or signifigant impact in comparison to other predators, the main creature I see Bears eating are just fish, and even then, the Bears once again show no purpose, if the Bears werent there, the fish would still swim, and spawn, and die as normal.

This is of course in contrast to Tigers and Sharks for example whoare apex predators and useful for control and eco-stabilization, Bears rarely even actually hunt.

With Bears I really just cant see a good purpose, which is why I'm asking for some enlightenment.

and dont even get me started on pandas, I mean...even earth dosent want them around anymore.




FirmhandKY -> RE: Animal Rights (3/21/2007 5:56:05 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rumtiger

Since I am just another animal, I only one right, the right to survive ...


Surviving isn't a right. 

FirmKY



Rumtiger -> RE: Animal Rights (3/21/2007 5:58:01 PM)

I would say surviving is a right.

Living on the other hand...well thats another matter.



Sinergy -> RE: Animal Rights (3/21/2007 6:00:10 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rumtiger

With Bears I really just cant see a good purpose, which is why I'm asking for some enlightenment.



They eat carrion.  They crap hither and yon which fertilizes things.  They have their place.

Have you ever heard of a "Whale Fall?"  When a whale dies, the zillion ton animal sinks to the bottom of the ocean and molders away under ungodly amounts of water pressure.

There is life that exists at the bottom of the ocean which relies on the death of whales to have an existence. 

Perhaps the entire purpose in God's plan for a whale is to allow a worm that eats their carcass at 32,000 feet under the surface of the ocean to exist.

Sinergy



servantforuse -> RE: Animal Rights (3/21/2007 6:01:45 PM)

I'm sure you all know what P E T A really stands for..People Eating Tasty Animals....



Rumtiger -> RE: Animal Rights (3/21/2007 6:02:06 PM)

carrion, well that makes more sense.



missturbation -> RE: Animal Rights (3/21/2007 6:03:24 PM)

Ok i googled but didnt come up with much.
Bears parts are used in chinese medicine.
Bears (brown) eat a lot of salmon so you could say they keep down the salmon population.
 
I have to say though you could ask what a lot of animals use actually is. What use is a french poodle?
What use is a fly?
What use is a hamster?
What use is a rabbit?

 



Sinergy -> RE: Animal Rights (3/21/2007 6:16:21 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

What use is a french poodle?



So you can find the football when you go out night punting.

Sinergy



domiguy -> RE: Animal Rights (3/21/2007 6:20:40 PM)

Finally a question posed that has merit...I can't think of one reason that French poodles shouldn't be hunted down and slaughtered...Those nasty little yippy annoying Fuckers!!!  Truly a worthless animal!...Perhaps there sole purpose is to be tied to a stick and used to clean out a bears or a whales ass....Can't think of any other purpose those hideous creatures have....Ooops! They are often dragged along by women who usually have a few days left to live....Maybe that is their purpose to serve as some sort of spirit guide for mean old ladies...Can't come up with anything more...Awful animals....Are they tasty?



mnottertail -> RE: Animal Rights (3/21/2007 6:20:48 PM)

General  thought---general reply---
Rights are an endowment of philisophical thought like perfume.  In a base social structure it was based on survival (which was not a right)  then at some point gods and philosophers advanced the thoughts of right to make the weak as a general concept have equal footing with the strong as a general concept (however you define that people)  here is what happens, you live, you breath, you die....don't much happen beyond that.  So as social and philosopical creatures, we often contemplate beyond that.  It is no longer acceptable to say do this or I will kill you, however; there are various islands of imbalance to the world. 

Ah, the hell with it.

Ron



Sinergy -> RE: Animal Rights (3/21/2007 6:22:06 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

General  thought---general reply---
Rights are an endowment of philisophical thought like perfume.  In a base social structure it was based on survival (which was not a right)  then at some point gods and philosophers advanced the thoughts of right to make the weak as a general concept have equal footing with the strong as a general concept (however you define that people)  here is what happens, you live, you breath, you die....don't much happen beyond that.  So as social and philosopical creatures, we often contemplate beyond that.  It is no longer acceptable to say do this or I will kill you, however; there are various islands of imbalance to the world. 

Ah, the hell with it.

Ron



What the hell does any of this have to do with French Poodles?

Can we stay on topic please?

Sinergy



FirmhandKY -> RE: Animal Rights (3/21/2007 6:23:07 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

Are they tasty?


Not really.  A little stingy, from my experience.  Not much meat.

FirmKY



missturbation -> RE: Animal Rights (3/21/2007 6:24:31 PM)

What's night punting?



Sinergy -> RE: Animal Rights (3/21/2007 6:27:49 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

What's night punting?


Duh.

Punting is when you drop a football and kick it in midair down the field.

At night, when you do this, the football lands 40 or more hards away from you in the darkness.

Poodles make yap noises, so they can be located after being punted.

It is not rocket science.

Sinergy



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