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Lost Respect - 3/23/2007 2:11:54 PM

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I've had my submissive living with me for a few months now. He knew coming in all there was to know about my poly needs and my family. He also knew that I enjoy bottoming on occasion.

This past weekend I bottomed at an event. My sub knew about it, but wasn't present for it. Then when we came home he saw me write an email to the Dom I was with that weekend. Harmless email; not that it matters. However, in my sub's journal he wrote that he loses respect for me when I submit.

I confronted him and asked him if he really meant that I lose his respect and not to answer me at that moment but to really think about it. He said "it's only a little bit" which I explained would only compound and stack every time he knew it happened.

I really am a bit concerned he's not going to work out here.... any thoughts?

D~

RE: Lost Respect - 3/23/2007 2:49:59 PM

Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline

Somewhere in his wiring, he's learned that submission = weakness. I'm betting that if he looks really deep, he'll find that he thinks this about himself. but he's transferring it onto you. You can't change this for him...he has to change it for himself, if he wants to.

Master Fire

_____________________________

The power of who we are can be intoxicating. The power of who we could be is humbling.
-----
Ms Relationship Books
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BDSM How-To Books

(in reply to earthycouple)

RE: Lost Respect - 3/23/2007 3:12:42 PM

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Joined: 12/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterFireMaam

Somewhere in his wiring, he's learned that submission = weakness. I'm betting that if he looks really deep, he'll find that he thinks this about himself. but he's transferring it onto you. You can't change this for him...he has to change it for himself, if he wants to.

Master Fire

Seconded.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to MasterFireMaam)

RE: Lost Respect - 3/23/2007 5:00:29 PM

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Joined: 12/27/2006
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another take on it is that he very well may be jealous of the Dom and angry at himself for being unable to fullfill you. His pride may be injured. Then again, he knows more than we do. Ask him, were the peanut gallery here and its your relationship.b

(in reply to earthycouple)

RE: Lost Respect - 3/23/2007 7:13:50 PM

Posts: 256
Joined: 2/9/2007
From: Atlanta, Georgia
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I've encountered the same thing, and while I'm a Dom, I do like to bottom on occasion. For some reason there are some subs out there that just have it in their head that a Dominant would never, ever put themselves in that situation, and to do so diminishes our Domliness or something. The world is black and white with no toleration for gray in their world I guess.

As for your sub, really press him on the point and not only find out if he loses respect, but why. The why is the critical part.

_____________________________

Been there, done that, got the t-shirt. No, seriously. They have t-shirts for everything nowadays.

(in reply to underhereye)

RE: Lost Respect - 3/26/2007 9:28:41 AM

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Joined: 11/7/2005
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Hi D~,

As I allude to in my profile intro, I would find it incredibly hot to watch a domme of mine submitting to another. It works for me on so many levels.

First, the vicarious thrill that runs down your spine watching her just "let go", and knowing (assuming, I guess) that it is like she is sliding into a relaxing hot bath at the end of the day - melting into the soothing water as it were. She's no longer vigilantly in control at the moment, she's taking a break, but it was by her choice. If you know how good that feels as a sub, it seems like you'd relish watching your domme pleasuring herself this way.

Secondly, to me there is an element of further submission in watching someone you are beholden to themselves "giving in" to another. The realization that at that moment you are bottom face on a totem pole... well, the humbling aspect of that is a turn-on. And if there is a small part of her that is enjoying the playful teasing "twisting of the knife" effect it would have on me to watch ("look, look, he's doing things to me that you are not permitted to!"), well all the better to know that that is making her hotter in her submission.

Getting back to your situation, I think all three posts above have hit on likely angles. I wonder if you could reorient this for him by playing on either of the two interpretations I've mentioned above. He may be suggestable to them, partly consciously, assuming he wants to get over the uncomfortable feeling. (I hope that makes sense.) Good luck.

Gallant from Highlights (wink wink)

< Message edited by KneelB4You -- 3/26/2007 9:30:22 AM >

(in reply to earthycouple)

RE: Lost Respect - 3/26/2007 4:16:59 PM

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From: NYS
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I think it takes a very solid foundation for a sub to be okay with their dom/me subbing. But it doesn't seem like you were submitting. Instead you asked a top to perform sensation play on you. I'm using these terms because they separate submission and domination from what you were doing. Basically you enjoy having sensations performed on you. You enjoy your sub massaging your back and you enjoy a heavier sensation of a flogger on your back. You can enjoy getting your feet rubbed and also enjoy the stronger sensation of getting your feet caned. Maybe if you present it like that, just that you enjoy a heavy level of sensation performed by somebody that's good at it, he'll understand better.

Ask him if your back was hurting and you went to a professional massage therapist would he lose respect for you? It would mean that his back rub wasn't good enough and it would mean that a stronger massage was better. Because that's the correlation here between sensations he performs on you and the ones a top does. Sometimes you just enjoy heavy sensation play.

(in reply to KneelB4You)

RE: Lost Respect - 3/26/2007 4:45:04 PM

barefootprincess

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Joined: 3/20/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: KneelB4You

>>>>I would find it incredibly hot to watch a domme of mine submitting to another. It works for me on so many levels.

First, the vicarious thrill that runs down your spine watching her just "let go", and knowing (assuming, I guess) that it is like she is sliding into a relaxing hot bath at the end of the day - melting into the soothing water as it were. She's no longer vigilantly in control at the moment, she's taking a break, but it was by her choice. If you know how good that feels as a sub, it seems like you'd relish watching your domme pleasuring herself this way.

Secondly, to me there is an element of further submission in watching someone you are beholden to themselves "giving in" to another. The realization that at that moment you are bottom face on a totem pole... well, the humbling aspect of that is a turn-on. And if there is a small part of her that is enjoying the playful teasing "twisting of the knife" effect it would have on me to watch ("look, look, he's doing things to me that you are not permitted to!"), well all the better to know that that is making her hotter in her submission.

>>>>

This is a perfect situation .
Has this really ever happened or it is it wishful thinking???

(in reply to KneelB4You)

RE: Lost Respect - 3/27/2007 2:31:30 PM

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Joined: 11/7/2005
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quote:

This is a perfect situation . Has this really ever happened or it is it wishful thinking???

To me? Not in the physical sense. Emotionally, yes, though I bet it has for most people over the age of 12. I.e., there have been times when a woman had me insouciantly on a string while she was herself chasing some elusive, aloof, often cocky other male and begging for his attentions (isn't this the story of Western Civilization, or is it just me?). A quite humiliating position, and difficult to be sure, but I also found it *highly* erotic even at the time (and for years afterward). Then again, I'm someone with cuckold fantasies, so it's hardly surprising.

But judging from other kink-related forums I've been on, these configurations (speaking physical BDSM again) don't seem that uncommon.

Sorry, I didn't mean to hijack D's thread.

(in reply to barefootprincess)

RE: Lost Respect - 3/27/2007 10:28:32 PM

Posts: 291
Joined: 5/27/2006
From: Seattle, WA
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First off, I'd recommend figuring out if you two are on the same page about what happened at the event. As others have already pointed out, you said that you'd bottomed -- but your sub said that you'd submitted. Which was it? Is he aware that there's a difference? Do you consider there to be a difference? If so, you may want to make sure that the meanings match up for you both.

Second, was this a blog that he'd kept just for you, or was he telling others before he'd announced this issue to you? If he's blogging to others where you'd see it before briniging it up to you personally, is this acceptable behavior to you? If it's not and he already knew that, then yes ... this may be causing trouble already.

It might be possible to get him to see the hotness factor in you bottoming, or to just not dwell on it if it bugs him that much, but for future submissives you may want to confirm that they've had previous experience with a dominant who bottoms from time to time.

(in reply to KneelB4You)

RE: Lost Respect - 3/27/2007 11:06:19 PM

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Joined: 8/8/2005
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Rule with a iron hand. Most men cannot rationalize switching , They still see women three type, the mother, lover or the child, ie' the mother maiden or crone. You defined yourself as the mother , disciplinarian. Rule or lose

(in reply to earthycouple)

RE: Lost Respect - 3/28/2007 12:10:34 PM

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Completely off topic...but where have you been?!
D~

(in reply to KneelB4You)

RE: Lost Respect - 3/28/2007 12:13:09 PM

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Joined: 2/19/2006
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Several years ago, I had a Dom who decided he wanted to submit to me as well...yes, it has happened..and we were beautiful together, no matter who was in control at the time

D~

(in reply to barefootprincess)

RE: Lost Respect - 3/28/2007 12:18:06 PM

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Joined: 2/19/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mustardseed

First off, I'd recommend figuring out if you two are on the same page about what happened at the event. As others have already pointed out, you said that you'd bottomed -- but your sub said that you'd submitted. Which was it? Is he aware that there's a difference? Do you consider there to be a difference? If so, you may want to make sure that the meanings match up for you both.

Second, was this a blog that he'd kept just for you, or was he telling others before he'd announced this issue to you? If he's blogging to others where you'd see it before briniging it up to you personally, is this acceptable behavior to you? If it's not and he already knew that, then yes ... this may be causing trouble already.

It might be possible to get him to see the hotness factor in you bottoming, or to just not dwell on it if it bugs him that much, but for future submissives you may want to confirm that they've had previous experience with a dominant who bottoms from time to time.

Oh he always comes to me, either in voice or in private journaling off of this website. I have no issues with him running his mouth. As a matter of fact, overall, he's wonderful. This issue was sticky though.

What I did was this: I made him think about his feelings and really look at what his issues were/are. He realized that he wasn't losing respect for me but he felt a need to want to save me or protect me.

I explained I would never intentionally put him in a position where he witnessed me bottoming *yes differences in bottoming and submitting...* however I could not always ensure he would be "immune" from it. I also explained that asking me to deny who I am was just as wrong as someone asking him to deny his bisexuality or his gamer geekiness or his submissive nature. He seemed to understand and we have worked past. I am thankful to everyone for your thoughts regarding this.
D~

(in reply to Mustardseed)

RE: Lost Respect - 3/28/2007 11:08:33 PM

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Glad to hear You have worked through it (and I think You hit on the right way to do it) but here's My take. I do submit (to Master) as well as bottom, yet I haven't had any male subs lose respect for Me because of it. If anything, it enhances their respect because they know that I actually do what I am asking of them. And if they see me bottoming ... they are gobsmacked at what i can take without safewording ... i have much more pain tolerance than any male sub i have met so far! And Master is a big Man with big hands, it's easy to see He hits me far harder than I can physically hit them! I've offered to ask Him to hit them ... LOL ... they say NO thank You Ma'am so fast! Perhaps I have just been lucky so far to not get a negative reaction.

Currently in communication with a new would-be sub who is keen to live nearby and be considered for ultimate 24/7 slave. I have already told him that my sub side is 24/7 Master's slave ... he likes that idea as he sees his role as My slave is to free Me up to serve Master even better. And while Master is not bi and will not use My boy sexually, he understands that Master will be Head of the Household and served and respected as appropriate. Fingers crossed that he will prove to be as good as he seems so far!

Maam Jay aka violet[A]

_____________________________

Life is a song ... and I love singing it! (By me!)

(in reply to earthycouple)

RE: Lost Respect - 3/29/2007 3:16:15 PM

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Joined: 3/26/2007
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He likely thinks that you are losing your edge in that you are occasionally sub-ing. Ask him what buttons it hits in him... see if you can both come to an understanding about it. Apart from that, there's nothing you can really do.

(in reply to earthycouple)

RE: Lost Respect - 4/4/2007 8:15:04 PM

arayofsunshine55

Posts: 545
Joined: 8/1/2004
From: San Francisco, CA
Status: offline

I've seen quite a few subs who don't respect tops/doms who bottom/submit. And as others have said it is very tied u in their rigid sense of what it means to bottom/submit. Not sure what you can do get him off this dime. For me in the end I would like my partner to focus on the relationshbip I have with him. Do I give him what he needs. And not be caught up in his fantasy of what it means I should be overall.

_____________________________

Sunshine

Is it not most transformative, most earthshaking, to pierce the veils of self-deception and illusion, and crack the eggshell of ignorance, to most intimately encounter oneself? Lama Surya Das

(in reply to earthycouple)

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