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RE: Effective Gun Control in England - 3/23/2007 11:20:35 PM   
dcnovice


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quote:

It was once said "Guns kill people."


Well, don't they? It's not like people buy them to use as paperweights.

< Message edited by dcnovice -- 3/23/2007 11:21:39 PM >

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RE: Effective Gun Control in England - 3/23/2007 11:20:46 PM   
FangsNfeet


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent


You're missing a pertinent fact which doesn't fit your argument.

Britain has never had a gun culture or a high level of gun-related murder. Knife attacks have always been prevalent in Britain - it is the weapon of choice, here. Hence, my point that you're not comparing like with like. There is no correlation between reduced gun ownership and increased knife attacks.


Thanks for saying that you don't need a gun to kill people. As for a correlation, the normal Englisman does not have a gun and can not aquire one. So to kill, he uses something other than a gun to commit murder. See a culture prefering not to use guns in the first place proves more to the fact that guns do not kill. Instead, it is people who kill by any means necessary by choice and preference.

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RE: Effective Gun Control in England - 3/23/2007 11:23:09 PM   
dawntreader


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

It was once said "Guns kill people."


Well, don't they? It's not like people buy them to use as paperweights.


So true!!!

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RE: Effective Gun Control in England - 3/23/2007 11:25:03 PM   
Masternslave07


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

It was once said "Guns kill people."


Well, don't they? It's not like people buy them to use as paperweights.



Many people use guns to defend themselves and keep from being killed. I am always amazed at how that is rarely mentioned.

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RE: Effective Gun Control in England - 3/23/2007 11:35:17 PM   
FangsNfeet


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

It was once said "Guns kill people."


Well, don't they? It's not like people buy them to use as paperweights.


Guns don't have a mind of there own. I've never seen a gun wake up in a bad mood and say "That's it, I'm going to blow someones fucking head off!"

Do all the google searching you want, you'll never find a case where a gun killed a person. It's like you said, "People don't buy them to use as paper weights." "People" is the key term in your sentence. Guns and other weapons/items do not have actions. People do. 

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RE: Effective Gun Control in England - 3/23/2007 11:38:34 PM   
dcnovice


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quote:

Do all the google searching you want, you'll never find a case where a gun killed a person.


True. But it seems a bit disingenuous to pretend that guns were not designed specifically to administer lethal force -- i.e., to kill people (or animals).

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RE: Effective Gun Control in England - 3/23/2007 11:41:03 PM   
FukinTroll


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Status: offline 		 I had a friend that got killed by his gun. It was a total accident, it went off while he was crossing a fence. The official report was a faulty firing mechanism.

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RE: Effective Gun Control in England - 3/23/2007 11:46:27 PM   
dcnovice


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Masternslave07

quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

It was once said "Guns kill people."


Well, don't they? It's not like people buy them to use as paperweights.



Many people use guns to defend themselves and keep from being killed. I am always amazed at how that is rarely mentioned.


Yes, and the whole reason the gun might deter an intruder is because it can be used to kill him (or threaten to do so).



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RE: Effective Gun Control in England - 3/23/2007 11:54:39 PM   
dogthing


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quote:

Maybe NG, but there is a striking coincidence between the ban on guns and a massive increase in gun related crime.


Yes. We had an increase in gun-related crime, that's why we strengthened the laws. Gun-facilitated crimes are now supposed to be decreasing again, but we keep finding that guns are being imported and supplied to the criminal community by supposedly "law-abiding" dealers who use their legitimate gun-supply businesses as a front.
Here's the latest one:
  http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2006420433,00.html
Another problem is replica guns and deactivated guns being turned into functional weapons. One of the main sources for suitable deactivated guns used to be the police themselves, who would sell the guns they seized back to dealers after deactivation. The police don't do this any more.

I don't recognise your statements about UK knife law as accurate. You might want to do some reading:
http://www.thesite.org/homelawandmoney/law/weaponscrime/weaponsandthelaw
http://www.ukoutdoorstore.co.uk/safeknifeuse.html
http://www.bkcg.co.uk/guide/law.htmhttp://www.bkcg.co.uk/guide/law.html


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RE: Effective Gun Control in England - 3/24/2007 12:04:31 AM   
FangsNfeet


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FukinTroll

 I had a friend that got killed by his gun. It was a total accident, it went off while he was crossing a fence. The official report was a faulty firing mechanism.


Your friend should have paid more attention to gun care. The gun never killed him. You say that the gun killed him. If he had triped over the fence and broke his neck, would you say that the fence killed him? Accidents happen, don't blame the gun.

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RE: Effective Gun Control in England - 3/24/2007 12:20:47 AM   
dcnovice


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FangsNfeet

quote:

ORIGINAL: FukinTroll

 I had a friend that got killed by his gun. It was a total accident, it went off while he was crossing a fence. The official report was a faulty firing mechanism.


Your friend should have paid more attention to gun care. The gun never killed him. You say that the gun killed him. If he had triped over the fence and broke his neck, would you say that the fence killed him? Accidents happen, don't blame the gun.


<shakes head, sighs>

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RE: Effective Gun Control in England - 3/24/2007 12:22:08 AM   
FukinTroll


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FangsNfeet

quote:

ORIGINAL: FukinTroll

 I had a friend that got killed by his gun. It was a total accident, it went off while he was crossing a fence. The official report was a faulty firing mechanism.


Your friend should have paid more attention to gun care. The gun never killed him. You say that the gun killed him. If he had triped over the fence and broke his neck, would you say that the fence killed him? Accidents happen, don't blame the gun.


Wow what a stupid assesment.

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RE: Effective Gun Control in England - 3/24/2007 1:49:47 AM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro

 I recall last year reading in England a call to return the Death Penalty
 

 
Not true, at least no significant public pressure.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro

after a Woman Bobby (They do not carry guns) was shot when answering a hold up. 
Nosathro



True. If it's the one I'm thinking of she was shot by an American in Leeds. That's not to say there haven't been instances of British civilians killing police men/women - there have been loads. We tend to just have a different way of viewing life - a small % of shootings and stabbings isn't good reason for the death penalty.

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RE: Effective Gun Control in England - 3/24/2007 4:03:39 AM   
seeksfemslave


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Status: offline 		(a) Only about 90% of the population in the UK support the re introduction of the Death penalty.
(b) The crime referred to was not the one carried out by the Yank, a PWC <odd eastern european name> beginning with a B was shot in Bradford, by I am fairly certain Asian thugs.
(c) Gun crime has shot up over the last few years as have attacks on old people and street mugging.

Convictions for breaking the speed limit or illegal parking have also increased.......so that all right then.

Some experts should listen to the news more and not get drunk on a Friday night !!

< Message edited by seeksfemslave -- 3/24/2007 4:05:16 AM >

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RE: Effective Gun Control in England - 3/24/2007 4:27:05 AM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

(a) Only about 90% of the population in the UK support the re introduction of the Death penalty.



Misinformation. You will find no evidence to support the above claim.

In reality, your 90% is closer to 65%.

It would be wise not to place store in a change in your life time because it is always more difficult to reintroduce an abolished law (compared with introducing new law).

I'll take a guess that a higher proportion of younger Britons do not support the death penalty, so those against may soon be in the majority.

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RE: Effective Gun Control in England - 3/24/2007 4:30:29 AM   
redsky


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Status: offline 		Everyone is entitled to their own opinion about the death penalty & although in some cases maybe it seems like a good idea, though an angry one, doesnt always help the situation or problem.
Besides, if the death penalty was to be brought back into our society what would happen to the wrongly convicted & wouldnt that just make us all on a whole *murderers*?
as always this is just my opinion.

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RE: Effective Gun Control in England - 3/24/2007 4:59:55 AM   
WilliamWizer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FukinTroll

quote:

ORIGINAL: FangsNfeet

quote:

ORIGINAL: FukinTroll

 I had a friend that got killed by his gun. It was a total accident, it went off while he was crossing a fence. The official report was a faulty firing mechanism.


Your friend should have paid more attention to gun care. The gun never killed him. You say that the gun killed him. If he had triped over the fence and broke his neck, would you say that the fence killed him? Accidents happen, don't blame the gun.


Wow what a stupid assesment.


It may sound stupid but it's the truth. guns or bullets don't kill. it's the person who shots who is doing the killing. a gun is a tool. it does nothing unless somebody uses it.

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RE: Effective Gun Control in England - 3/24/2007 5:50:11 AM   
Termyn8or


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Status: offline 		In Kennesaw Geirgia US, it is against the law NOT to have a gun. I've heard of a town in Texas with a similar law. Switzerland used to require all households to posses at least one firearm, ammunition for it and at least one person who knows how to use it.

I'm sure a comprison of crime rates in places like those with the UK, or the new crime rate in Austrailia now that the people are disarmed would prove depressing to some.

Politicians favor gun control, of course, it is they who deserve to get shot, but their bodyguards have guns. What does that tell you ? They only care about themselves, and yes, law abiding citizens are expected to walk around defensless. We don't matter, it's only one vote.

T

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RE: Effective Gun Control in England - 3/24/2007 6:14:39 AM   
seeksfemslave


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent
quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave
(a) Only about 90% of the population in the UK support the re introduction of the Death penalty.

Misinformation. You will find no evidence to support the above claim.
In reality, your 90% is closer to 65%.
It would be wise not to place store in a change in your life time because it is always more difficult to reintroduce an abolished law (compared with introducing new law).

I'll take a guess that a higher proportion of younger Britons do not support the death penalty, so those against may soon be in the majority.


The name of the WPC is Beshenivsky RIP.Her killers will restart their lives an about 5 years time. maybe less.. No doubt with a smile on their faces.

65% is still a majority and is close to the total number voting in a national election.

Apparently subservience to EU law forbids the reintroduction of the Death penalty anyway, so Democracy prevails, as per usual..

As to what young people think that would only interest me if I thought that they knew a great deal. If they actually knew twice as much is they think they do they still wouldn't know much. I'm speaking averages here. If caitlyn really is 20 then she definately is an exception.
Dont forget ALL old people have experienced youth and the honest ones, like me of course, recognise its folly.

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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Effective Gun Control in England - 3/24/2007 6:40:33 AM   
NorthernGent


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Status: offline 		Wrong again.

We are not bound by the EU and Brussels in this particular area.

We are voluntary signatories to the sixth protocol of the European Convention of Human Rights (nothing at all to do with Brussels) which specifically outlaws capital punishment. The treaty was incorporated into British law in 1999.

Restoration of the death penalty could occur by exactly the same process as it was abolished i.e. by the majority of British MPs voting for it. As said, the reintroduction of abolished law is an arduous road to go down.

If you don't agree with British law and British MPs voting against the death penalty, then my advice is to campaign rather than blame the EU who have nothing whatsoever to do with this.

quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

As to what young people think that would only interest me if I thought that they knew a great deal.



Says it all, really.

< Message edited by NorthernGent -- 3/24/2007 6:43:46 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 40
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