CNN-"Iraq: Transition of Power" (Full Version)

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Vendaval -> CNN-"Iraq: Transition of Power" (3/26/2007 4:01:23 AM)

CNN- "Iraq: Transition of Power"

"War enters fifth year" "The war in Iraq has entered its fifth year with the U.S.-led forces battling a determined insurgency and hoping to quell rising sectarian violence. More than 20,000 U.S. troops are headed to the region to help implement a new security plan and reconstruction efforts. Meanwhile, the near-daily bombings and casualties are taking a toll on support for the war on the home front."  http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2005/iraq.transition/



FirmhandKY -> RE: CNN-"Iraq: Transition of Power" (3/26/2007 4:49:32 AM)

How to Win in Iraq—and How to Lose

Thus far, the antiwar forces in both the United States and Europe have been greatly successful in presenting the Iraqi future in terms of an inevitable, and richly deserved, American defeat. Not even positive results on the ground have deterred them from pressing their case for withdrawal, or from winning influential converts in the heart of the U.S. Congress. If they succeed in their ultimate goal of forcing a withdrawal, they will take their place in another “long line,” joining the shameful company of those who compelled the French to leave Algeria in disgrace and to stand by as the victorious FLN conducted a hideous bloodbath, and of those who compelled America to leave Vietnam under similar circumstances and to similar effect.

FirmKY



mnottertail -> RE: CNN-"Iraq: Transition of Power" (3/26/2007 4:56:33 AM)

It is such a shame that rhetoric here and abroad is causing this war to go down into defeat.  Make a deal with you, the 'defeatists' will get together, be silent on the matter, hell, even think fantastical thoughts of victory as the true world order thinks we should, for one day---------------if there ain't significant improvement in that one day, after five years of this shit............then we dump that FUCKIN' TOILET!!!!!!

How's that?

Ron



FirmhandKY -> RE: CNN-"Iraq: Transition of Power" (3/26/2007 5:02:58 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

It is such a shame that rhetoric here and abroad is causing this war to go down into defeat.  Make a deal with you, the 'defeatists' will get together, be silent on the matter, hell, even think fantastical thoughts of victory as the true world order thinks we should, for one day---------------if there ain't significant improvement in that one day, after five years of this shit............then we dump that FUCKIN' TOILET!!!!!!

How's that?

Ron



How about you read the article before you start swinging pieces of your anatomy around?

FirmKY



mnottertail -> RE: CNN-"Iraq: Transition of Power" (3/26/2007 5:07:37 AM)

I read the article and I reiterate my statement.

Ron



FirmhandKY -> RE: CNN-"Iraq: Transition of Power" (3/26/2007 5:11:27 AM)

Well, it might help if you understood the article.

FirmKY



farglebargle -> RE: CNN-"Iraq: Transition of Power" (3/26/2007 5:17:59 AM)

Bush has until next year to Win, and no-one can say he didn't get all the chances he wanted.

He better get cracking, if he's going to pull it off.

And he better not blame anyone else for his failure.

Shit, the US Civil War took less time.






Sanity -> RE: CNN-"Iraq: Transition of Power" (3/26/2007 5:28:52 AM)

The message Congress is sending is that within a year terrorism wins. Even if we were going to withdraw, we don't need to send them this moral victory a full year in advance... half of accomplishing anything is believing that you can do it, and the Democrats are giving the terrorists in Iraq that half, and then some.



farglebargle -> RE: CNN-"Iraq: Transition of Power" (3/26/2007 5:35:51 AM)

"Within a year terrorism wins".

Not if Bush does his fucking job, and winds this up successfully, by say, Halloween.

Then the TERRORISTS LOSE BY HALLOWEEN.

Are you concerned that Bush can't get the job done in that much time? This has already taken longer than World War 2. This has already taken longer than the War of Northern Aggression. How much longer is Bush going to dick around letting his friends make the money, instead of doing the damn job.

The other option is that Bush CAN'T do the job.

In that case, what's the point of staying to be targets in a 4 way civil war ( They're saying the Turk/Kurd thing is getting hot. Turkeys inserting SOF into Kurdistan to assassinate Kurdish leaders apparently )



NorthernGent -> RE: CNN-"Iraq: Transition of Power" (3/26/2007 5:40:44 AM)

Out of curiosity, what would constitute winning?



farglebargle -> RE: CNN-"Iraq: Transition of Power" (3/26/2007 5:44:10 AM)

Don't ask me, I didn't start Operation Eventual Fuckup.

I think it's something like turning the old pieces of Mesopotamia into a post-enlightenment western-style Constitutional Republic.

Evidence shows that the residents aren't really into the idea. The Shi'as hate the Sunni and the Sunni hate the Shi'as.

The Kurds hate the Turks. No-one seems happy.




Morghan -> RE: CNN-"Iraq: Transition of Power" (3/26/2007 5:46:19 AM)

I don't think theres any such thing as winning a war that was begun on ill pretenses.  The reason Bush's father didn't go in is he knew it would be a quagmire.  Now our troops have at least four different kinds of enemy to fight, all coming at them from different directions.  I'm tired of my friends going overseas to get shot at, but I understand the desire to get it done right. Unfortunately theres been far too much political stuff motivating decisions instead of facts.  Then theres the recent discussion of attorney firings... Its all dirty.  NO matter when we completely hand over power to the Iraqis there will be more violence and loss of life.  At some point we have to give them the tools to do the job and walk away.  Just don't expect everyone to agree on when that should be. 



farglebargle -> RE: CNN-"Iraq: Transition of Power" (3/26/2007 5:50:24 AM)

Oh, and I *do* have some ideas on how to pull this one out, but I gotta run.



mnottertail -> RE: CNN-"Iraq: Transition of Power" (3/26/2007 6:21:21 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

Well, it might help if you understood the article.

FirmKY



Why not hep me to what I don't seem to grasp, as trivial counterpoints to that shit, I will point out Afghanistan under the USSR,  and  the Iran-Iraq  war.

Koiinas quatsi (or however it is spelled)

Ron



FirmhandKY -> RE: CNN-"Iraq: Transition of Power" (3/26/2007 7:24:53 AM)

Do you know the difference between the current military strategy and the strategy before Petraeusr?  You see any of the lessons learned?

I wasn't convinced we could "win" before Petraeus, although I thought it would be a disaster to leave.

Now, I'm confident we can win.  The only thing stopping us now is .... people like you, and the "get out now" Dems.

FirmKY



domiguy -> RE: CNN-"Iraq: Transition of Power" (3/26/2007 7:38:51 AM)

Good then let the terrorists win...I can live with this...And most importantly so will our troops....Maybe after we leave the sunnis and shias will realize that they have much more in common then they ever thought....And Democracy will blossom and it will be sooooo beautiful man!

So if it is a choice between staying or having the judges declare a "terrorsit win"....I'm with the terrorists!  (Domiguy dons a shirt that says "My Country went to Iraq and lost over 3,000 soldiers along with over 20,000 wounded and all we got was this stupid t-shirt.")



farglebargle -> RE: CNN-"Iraq: Transition of Power" (3/26/2007 7:46:46 AM)


"Now, I'm confident we can win. "

You have the next year to win. Stop whining and win already.




FirmhandKY -> RE: CNN-"Iraq: Transition of Power" (3/26/2007 7:47:56 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

Good then let the terrorists win...I can live with this...And most importantly so will our troops....Maybe after we leave the sunnis and shias will realize that they have much more in common then they ever thought....And Democracy will blossom and it will be sooooo beautiful man!

So if it is a choice between staying or having the judges declare a "terrorsit win"....I'm with the terrorists!  (Domiguy dons a shirt that says "My Country went to Iraq and lost over 3,000 soldiers along with over 20,000 wounded and all we got was this stupid t-shirt.")


I can always tell when a poster hasn't bothered to even read the source material.  It's just like a kid coming into school and trying to BS his way through a lesson where he hasn't even opened the textbook.

FirmKY



FirmhandKY -> RE: CNN-"Iraq: Transition of Power" (3/26/2007 7:48:59 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle


"Now, I'm confident we can win. "

You have the next year to win. Stop whining and win already.


See my above comments.

FirmKY



mnottertail -> RE: CNN-"Iraq: Transition of Power" (3/26/2007 7:50:41 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

Do you know the difference between the current military strategy and the strategy before Petraeusr?  You see any of the lessons learned?

I wasn't convinced we could "win" before Petraeus, although I thought it would be a disaster to leave.

Now, I'm confident we can win.  The only thing stopping us now is .... people like you, and the "get out now" Dems.

FirmKY



and I am going to tenaciously hold my opinion, win what? nobody is holding you up, I will point out that the dissent was not even calcuable at the beginning, and only started to groundswell when certain truths started to come to light.

OK, I fuckin' give up you guys, WIN WHAT?

Ron



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