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RE: bully or Dominant - 4/2/2007 6:58:40 AM

OsideGirl

Posts: 14442
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
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And this is where the "I'm a slave and he can do whatever he wants and the only way I can leave him, is if he releases me" crap floating around irritates me. It makes people feel obligated to be in relationships that they may not belong in.

Just make sure she knows that she has every right to end the relationship if she's not happy.

With a friend of ours, what made her realize that things were very out of whack, was being around other D/s BDSM couples. She could see how every else interacted. He eventually did his best to cut her off from her friends because of that.

She was so in love with the idea of being in a D/s relationship. She was in lust because he was a gorgeous man. She was convinced that if she walked away she'd be villified by the community.

In the end, the only person that can get someone out of an abusive relationship is the person being abused. Until then, all you can be is a friend and shoulder.

< Message edited by OsideGirl -- 4/2/2007 6:59:24 AM >

_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to MasterNdorei)

Post #: 21

RE: bully or Dominant - 4/2/2007 7:08:15 AM

Devilslilsister

Posts: 1262
Joined: 8/3/2006
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Fast Reply :

My Master has left alot of marks on me and "gasp" bitten me in places that has literally deadened a nerve for days/weeks. (strange feeling that is!) At the same, time he would never ever, ever, ever, and even NEVER do anything out of anger with me. Its just a line of respect between us.

Yet!! That is our dynamic. For others, anger is part of their dynamic. Who am i to call it abuse? For ME - it would be, for the next girl it might not be, and the girl after her - it could be heaven. Some people enjoy throwing that into the mix. Ever heard of "angry" sex? Never done it myself, but i've heard of it. = )

If the girl in question is miserable - she's three options. She can either suffer, leave, or try and work it out. If she doesnt like it, then its up to her to decide what to do about it. She is the only human being responsible for what happens in her life.

_____________________________

My ability to cope with BS is at an all time low - me

i may look like i'm doing nothing, but i'm very busy at a cellular level

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Post #: 22

RE: bully or Dominant - 4/2/2007 7:08:18 AM

MrDiscipline44

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Joined: 1/5/2005
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Your friend simply needs to figure out if this is the type of person she wants a relationship with and if this is the type of relationship she wants to have. If so then you have no recourse. There is nothing you can do for her. If not then support her on getting out of it with what ever measures are best. Doesn't really get anymore complicated then that.

_____________________________

If you love somebody, you have to be willing to break them.

Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach.

Have you slapped your slave today?

(in reply to servilecat)

Post #: 23

RE: bully or Dominant - 4/2/2007 7:13:43 AM

sweetnurseBBW

Posts: 2464
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From: North Carolina
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Abuse is never ok and you should intervene before something worse happens to her. Find others to help you get her away from him. This definately screams abuse and nothing consensual. If she is saying he is "attacking " her against her will then it is abuse. I enjoy having the things done she said was happening but they are done by my Master and never out of anger. He has issues and this is abuse and it should be brought to his attention a.s.a.p and get her out of there.

< Message edited by sweetnurseBBW -- 4/2/2007 7:18:28 AM >

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Sir Pain's pain slut

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Post #: 24

RE: bully or Dominant - 4/2/2007 7:15:02 AM

BeatMeDaily

Posts: 99
Joined: 1/7/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: servilecat
He reacts with what seems no control when He gets angry and takes things out on her flesh. It sounded like they don't really scene and these are just random attacks out of anger or frustration.

i think W/we all agree this is abuse.

Question? Does a Dom/Domme have a right to act this way because He/She is Dom/Domme ??
i would say the obvious answer is no, but if You're not a sub/slave ttalking with Dom/Domme(s),
many act this way. If the sub acts this way it's a big deal, but is it ok because You are Dom/Domme ?
Should You be held accountable for Your attitude too ?

_____________________________

It takes all kinds of critters to make Uncle Ben's fritters.

(in reply to servilecat)

Post #: 25

RE: bully or Dominant - 4/2/2007 7:18:15 AM

mixielicous

Posts: 1283
Joined: 4/6/2006
From: Boston area, Massachusetts
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hit the fast reply,

i suffer these symptoms regularly [heavy pinching, bruising etc]

but i am never approached when He is angry, a hard limit of His own.

He knows i came from an abusive relationship, and while i might be punished for making Him angry, it is NEVER in the heat of the moment [the same reasons why we dont scene while He is intoxicated]

_____________________________

"lets just say he's a few prawns short of a galaxy"

(in reply to MasterNdorei)

Post #: 26

RE: bully or Dominant - 4/2/2007 7:18:44 AM

CreativeDominant

Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
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It is difficult to give full-on advice in a situation like this.

Having been on the receiving end of a play partner whose anger and frustration came out 24 hours after the scene was done...a scene to which she had fully consented AND asked for marking...I know just how quickly consensual play can go to threats of calling the police and to never seeing/hearing from that person again. Luckily for me, the scene occurred at the home dungeon of a friend-in-common Mistress. When confronted by the submissive, I made our friend aware and when the submissive tried to go crying to her, she ran into a confrontation of her own.

The ideas that hit me in a contradictory way in this are the statements that this was done out of anger, along with a statement of other things he does when angry and the fact that she brought these concerns to someone she had met only recently. Seems to me like most victims of abuse have a hard enough time confiding in close, close friends...so why show someone new? On the other hand, perhaps she felt it safer to go to someone known in the BDSM community in which the two of you live, thinking you may have experience or awareness of her dominant or just, as a more experienced BDSM submissive, she may have been seeking to clarify her mind.

Others have noted a gentle and cautious approach to this. I would say the same. Take some time to be around here. If you note that he begins to do those things that are clearly considered abusive, even within the much more open boundaries of wiitwd, and you decide that it is abuse then it comes down to a choice for you as to whether to offer her help, get her help or just let her know you are there but that the leaving will have to be by her choice.

(in reply to servilecat)

Post #: 27

RE: bully or Dominant - 4/2/2007 7:19:27 AM

mixielicous

Posts: 1283
Joined: 4/6/2006
From: Boston area, Massachusetts
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

In the end, the only person that can get someone out of an abusive relationship is the person being abused. Until then, all you can be is a friend and shoulder.

sheesh, aint this the truth!

_____________________________

"lets just say he's a few prawns short of a galaxy"

(in reply to OsideGirl)

Post #: 28

RE: bully or Dominant - 4/2/2007 7:21:42 AM

mixielicous

Posts: 1283
Joined: 4/6/2006
From: Boston area, Massachusetts
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetnurseBBW

Abuse is never ok and you should intervene before something worse happens to her.

speaking from my own experience, this will most likely result in the victim being offended, embarrassed and on the defensive. this will lead to a breakdown of their relationship. in most cases. not all. but this is a common trend. people dont like being wrong when it comes to their own judgment.

_____________________________

"lets just say he's a few prawns short of a galaxy"

(in reply to sweetnurseBBW)

Post #: 29

RE: bully or Dominant - 4/2/2007 7:23:29 AM

mnottertail

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
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Ummmmmmmmmm-------

Teddy Roosevelt.

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(in reply to mixielicous)

Post #: 30

RE: bully or Dominant - 4/2/2007 7:29:07 AM

OsideGirl

Posts: 14442
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From: United States
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

It is difficult to give full-on advice in a situation like this.

Having been on the receiving end of a play partner whose anger and frustration came out 24 hours after the scene was done...a scene to which she had fully consented AND asked for marking...I know just how quickly consensual play can go to threats of calling the police and to never seeing/hearing from that person again.

Master's ex-submissive pulled this about 3 weeks into their relationship. She asked to be "pushed". He's a sadist, so readily agreed. Next day, she was crying to everyone (especially her ex-Dominant) how he had "abused" her. In the end, she went back to Master and said that she had been wrong, she just saw the marks and freaked out. He took her back. He's told me since then, that he should have seen that issue as a precursor for what the relationship was going to be like.

_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to CreativeDominant)

Post #: 31

RE: bully or Dominant - 4/2/2007 7:29:54 AM

sweetnurseBBW

Posts: 2464
Joined: 1/26/2006
From: North Carolina
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mixielicous

quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetnurseBBW

Abuse is never ok and you should intervene before something worse happens to her.

speaking from my own experience, this will most likely result in the victim being offended, embarrassed and on the defensive. this will lead to a breakdown of their relationship. in most cases. not all. but this is a common trend. people dont like being wrong when it comes to their own judgment.

Being a victim of abuse and having been intervened I was grateful someone stepped in and got me out of there. No one knows but the people involved. In my experience who cares. He needs this brought to his attention from some in the lifestyle. Most people want to sit and wait. then its too late. So dont make assumptions. Only the people involved know what really is going on. She needs to decide if its abuse and move from there.

< Message edited by sweetnurseBBW -- 4/2/2007 7:31:13 AM >

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Sir Pain's pain slut

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Post #: 32

RE: bully or Dominant - 4/2/2007 7:41:05 AM

CreativeDominant

Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

It is difficult to give full-on advice in a situation like this.

Having been on the receiving end of a play partner whose anger and frustration came out 24 hours after the scene was done...a scene to which she had fully consented AND asked for marking...I know just how quickly consensual play can go to threats of calling the police and to never seeing/hearing from that person again.

Luckily for me, her decision to go to our common friend and try the sympathy ploy on her backfired on her and neither I nor my friend the Mistress heard from her again. In thinking about the situation since then, I've realized you can do almost everything to guard against this and it can still happen. This is not to say abuse does not occur in D/s BDSM relationships...I think we are all pretty aware that it does...but you have to admit, due to the very nature of BDSM play and the inherent dynamics of a D/s relationship, it can be very easy for a submissive to cry "rape", "abuse", etc..

The cynical part of me says that I would not take someone back who had done something like this but the non-cynical part states that I might...eyes might be extra-wide-open for a lonnnnnnnnnnnnnnng time...if I cared for enough and her reasons for having done so made sense to me after careful examination.

Master's ex-submissive pulled this about 3 weeks into their relationship. She asked to be "pushed". He's a sadist, so readily agreed. Next day, she was crying to everyone (especially her ex-Dominant) how he had "abused" her. In the end, she went back to Master and said that she had been wrong, she just saw the marks and freaked out. He took her back. He's told me since then, that he should have seen that issue as a precursor for what the relationship was going to be like.

(in reply to OsideGirl)

Post #: 33

RE: bully or Dominant - 4/2/2007 7:44:22 AM

thetammyjo

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Joined: 9/8/2005
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(not a reply to a specific person but a comment in general)

I think we need to not focus on the physical results and thing about the questions the OP was asked and the emotions behind them.

Regardless of the number, location, or size or marks, if it makes you feel bad to receive them, if it makes you feel confused and to start questioning your relationship then, to me, that is strong sign you need to step back and re-evaluate things.

People who get marks in good relationships or because they want them tend to show them off to other bdsmers because the marks can be signs of pride or strength or simply a way to get positive attention. I know because I've been the top who bruises and my partners just can't wait to show them off at the next kink event and to their friends in the know.

The second thing I notice in this thread is that we are speculating about the top's motivations when he causes these marks. Again, regardless of his motivations if the marks are making someone feel bad then that person needs to re-evaluate things. You could have a top with nothing but the most positive motivations poorly paired up with someone who really does not want marks. This wouldn't make the top bad but it would make that part of their relationship inappropriate I think.

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(in reply to mixielicous)

Post #: 34

RE: bully or Dominant - 4/2/2007 7:48:11 AM

BeatMeDaily

Posts: 99
Joined: 1/7/2007
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personally, i love to be bruised and marked up for several days after a good scene.

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It takes all kinds of critters to make Uncle Ben's fritters.

(in reply to thetammyjo)

Post #: 35

RE: bully or Dominant - 4/2/2007 7:51:22 AM

mixielicous

Posts: 1283
Joined: 4/6/2006
From: Boston area, Massachusetts
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetnurseBBW

quote:

ORIGINAL: mixielicous

quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetnurseBBW

Abuse is never ok and you should intervene before something worse happens to her.

speaking from my own experience, this will most likely result in the victim being offended, embarrassed and on the defensive. this will lead to a breakdown of their relationship. in most cases. not all. but this is a common trend. people dont like being wrong when it comes to their own judgment.

Being a victim of abuse and having been intervened I was grateful someone stepped in and got me out of there. No one knows but the people involved. In my experience who cares. He needs this brought to his attention from some in the lifestyle. Most people want to sit and wait. then its too late. So dont make assumptions. Only the people involved know what really is going on. She needs to decide if its abuse and move from there.

IMO, sitting in silence is NOT the right thing, true... BUT - i would make it known that i knew something foul was going on, without getting so far into it as to say "you have o leave this man" etc etc.

sometimes just knowing that people arent oblivious is enough. this is just IME, of course.

edit to add, my experience from the first quote i mention was as the victim, not the person to intervene.

< Message edited by mixielicous -- 4/2/2007 7:53:15 AM >

_____________________________

"lets just say he's a few prawns short of a galaxy"

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Post #: 36

RE: bully or Dominant - 4/2/2007 8:18:07 AM

Sinergy

Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
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Hello A/all,

This is a general reply to everybody. MaamJay gave the idea that I keep in mind; A Dominant needs to be in control of themself before they can Dominate another." Another poster wrote that Dominants are human and have bad days, which I agree with. Being in control is not a stable state of happy-happy-joy-joy emotions, being in control is partially about what one does with these emotions.

A Dominant that scenes while angry is basically putting another person in their line of fire while they are allowing free reign of their emotional state. I personally will not go there.

Abuse really is in the eye of the beholder. One can yell through the door that the person should come outside into the garden and smell the roses, but one trapped in an abusive relationship will simply reply "what door?"

Sinergy

p.s. On a related note, I disagree with the person, in a sense, who stated that one can be a shoulder to cry on. This is simply allowing oneself to be drawn into their dysfunctional relationship. I would listen, but I would not give advice apart from suggesting they talk to a professional about it.

_____________________________

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"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

(in reply to mixielicous)

Post #: 37

RE: bully or Dominant - 4/2/2007 8:31:47 AM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
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A) I'm fine with playing in anger. I think it can be a great way to process the feelings and grow closer together. I would not tell someone they shouldn't play JUST because they were angry.

http://www.collarchat.com/m_764005/mpage_3/key_playing%252Canger/tm.htm#766820
anger and sm play

http://www.collarchat.com/m_750531/mpage_8/key_playing%252Canger/tm.htm#761529
going too far

B) If she is feeling abused and that this relationship is not fulfilling her, she should leave. This does not mean he necessarily *IS* abusing her. There isn't enough information given for me to suggest whether I think she's sincerely being abused or whether she just got in over her head.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

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(in reply to Sinergy)

Post #: 38

RE: bully or Dominant - 4/2/2007 8:50:43 AM

LadyHugs

Posts: 2299
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

Dear servilecat, Ladies and Gentlemen;

In my mind's eyes I see--if any one individual; Dominant or submissive is not having a good time of it--its wrong and perhaps best described if it goes unchanged as abuse.

Communication is the key and we are getting one side of the story. However, it may be a case of a miss-match between a Sadist Top and a sensual submissive. Neither are wrong in their preferences--just in their relationship and or partnerships in the scene.

That said, if there has been no consideration for the submissive and the all to familiar examples of 'abusers' and those who feel that this BDSM and or lifestyle is a vehicle of no boundaries of abuse and guise it as safe, sane and consensual -- that is a Bully and Control freak. In addition placing this lass's breast health in a high risk area.

Anybody can 'beat' somebody up. It takes a "Master" to artfully get the response without having to damage the body; in addition to making a slave/submissive/bottom an emotional wreck.

If I were to be in the lass's shoes -- I would suspend all contact with the Dominant and assess the difference between abuse and being cruel verses giving compassionate doses of pain as to increase tolerance and draw pleasure from the experience.

The premise of the lifestyle and or BDSM philosophy is that both parties should enjoy the experience. The lass breaking into tears is a sign that she is definately NOT having fun--especially her emotional and mental realms. I would have the lass create her own measure of what is fun, what is abuse and such and judge for herself--not by another's standards--even mine and or her present Dom.

People need to understand that fantasy, violent porn (which is usually done by actors over a course of time) and criminal assault are often the leading reasons for people getting hurt. Get to the intent of someone is helpful -- so ask questions and don't let excuses for injuries be for a lack of skills. Example: A chap I know new with a single tail made mince-meat out of girls back and breasts, sides and buttocks and thighs. The chap couldn't flog himself out of a wet paper bag let alone accuracy and judgment to handle a single tail. The chap was watching others and copy cat what he saw but, wasn't getting the results. So, he said he was a Sadist and that is normal. Years have passed now, he still hasn't improved his skills much as its much easier just to beat someone without artful movements and or finesse` to where the results are the same without damage or drawing blood.
Yet, when this chap Switched he was a dang pussy wimp. The fact is he could savage a woman but, he couldn't take what he dished out or even handle the warm up phase.

At times I want to shake submissives and slaves and see if they are awake. People teach others how to treat them. Allow a person to hurt beyond the comfort zone in all realms (physical, mental, emotional and or spiritual) -- they are controllers and bullies who are out of control. To allow that to continue is just giving the green light to hurt others now and in the future.

Just some thoughts.

Respectfully submitted for consideration,
Lady Hugs

(in reply to servilecat)

Post #: 39

RE: bully or Dominant - 4/2/2007 9:10:54 AM

PapiNsweet

Posts: 36
Joined: 10/12/2005
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Nikolette said: "I think that people occasionally agree to a relationship where they consent to physical violence against themselves--- and they haven't fully accepted that consent within so they feel very betrayed when the other person is simply doing what all parties agreed upon.

Is that what is happening here? I donno. It seems like it."

..i would tend to agree with the above. in some D/s relationships, beatings outside of a "scene", and even beatings inflicted by a Dominant in anger, are perfectly acceptable and mutually understood parts of the relationship. we are only hearing one side of the story here, and a fairly limited side at that, but to me this just sounds like a new submissive who isn't completely sure of what she wants and needs in a D/s relationship, and has simply gotten in way over her head. that does not make the Dominant in question wrong or an abuser, just makes him the wrong Dominant for this particular submissive. and personally i feel sorry for him if he has a submissive who's going up to people, showing them bruises and marks, crying about it and asking if such and such is normal.

(daddysprop247)

< Message edited by PapiNsweet -- 4/2/2007 9:11:24 AM >

(in reply to LadyHugs)

Post #: 40

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