the failings of chip and pin; what this means for ID cards (Full Version)

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LadyEllen -> the failings of chip and pin; what this means for ID cards (4/2/2007 6:32:07 AM)

We now have stories almost every week in the UK, about how the use of the new chip and pin cards is leading to fraud. Particularly at petrol stations, the card details and the pin are being read by tampered equipment, and relayed to criminals who are copying the cards and using them in other parts of the world to withdraw cash - Malaysia seemingly being a recurrent theme.

Yet again we find ourselves with cards purported to be "secure", failing because as we all know, anything that can be made can be replicated. And failing the ability to replicate, the anything can be obtained illegally anyway through identity theft.

Now, that thousands of pounds have been defrauded in this way is bad enough, but the move in the UK is now towards identity cards which will work in the same way and of course be open to the same compromises, despite the assurances we are given - with the added factor that these cards will feature much more far ranging personal information, and permit access to far more in the way of services and credibility than any bank card. They will be extremely hot property and very attractive to criminal elements, so it will be only a matter of time, whatever methods of manufacture are used, before your personal information will be available and on sale, just as passports and bank cards are today.

I have no objection in principle to carrying personal ID - I do anyway. But then, I'm law abiding, and incidentally am making myself a target by doing so. A clean driving licence and British passport are highly valuable in the market. When everyone must carry an ID card, then everyone will be a target.

My objection is to how this entire idea is being forced upon us by a system which has in the past proven monumentally incompetent in ordering and running their IT systems and executing their methodology.

I wondered what support there is out there for an ID card system? A card which not only carries your photo, home address and contact details but also your fingerprints, DNA, medical history, criminal record and other details which you will never know are there since they will be digitally encrypted, but the system will.

Meanwhile, the government reaches on a regular basis, for reasons why this system is required - to prevent terrorism, to prevent identity theft, to prevent abuse of our social benefits and health services, etc in a way that suggests that they have no idea or do not want us to know the real reason for its introduction. Each time they advance a reason, it is made clear in short order how the cards would not solve the problem, and a new reason is found.

E




meatcleaver -> RE: the failings of chip and pin; what this means for ID cards (4/2/2007 7:13:32 AM)

When ID cards were introduced here, my ex mother-in-law said the last time she had an ID card was for the Gestapo and it makes her feel the same now, a prisoner in her own country. I should carry an ID card but I don't on principle which means I could get an 80 euro fine if the police stop and check me but the truth is, my skin is the right colour so the chances of that are slim. Just don't look middle eastern or north African and not have a card.

Chip and pin are pretty safe if you aren't retarded and look after your pin number properly and most theft is paid for by the card operators (which means eventually all customers pay).



LadyEllen -> RE: the failings of chip and pin; what this means for ID cards (4/2/2007 7:25:01 AM)

Interesting MC; you see this is what I think the true purpose is - to keep track of those of different ethnic extraction, which they cant say because that would be racist, and by making everyone have a card they can get the target population to have one too without having specified from the start that they suspect them of terrorism, benefit fraud etc etc

I mean, is it truly likely that my GP with whom I have been registered since birth, is going to ask me for my ID card to access treatment? Is it likely that the DSS will ask for my card, when my NI number is an older one that has a regular and normal record attached? Is it likely that being white, I'm going to get suspected by the police of crime or terrorism?

The problem remaining though, that say if Ahmed Mohammed were a terrorist or criminal - is he going to be carrying his government issued ID on him? If he wanted to access social benefits or medical treatment to which he wasnt entitled, is he going to go without or adapt someone else's card who's a close match? And of course, for balance we should point out that white and black criminals etc are going to do the exact same things!

E



Rule -> RE: the failings of chip and pin; what this means for ID cards (4/2/2007 9:25:25 AM)

Governments always disarm the population and issue identity cards when they intend to commit genocide on parts of their population.



Real0ne -> RE: the failings of chip and pin; what this means for ID cards (4/2/2007 10:20:54 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

Governments always disarm the population and issue identity cards when they intend to commit genocide on parts of their population.



yep in fact the best thing for the public to do is to put their chip and pin nu8mbers on the net so anyone can use them through anon ip scrambler so that every criminal has free access to it and let them have a party.   Fuck it!  Its insured!  Bring the whole fucking thing to its knees  LMAO

Compliments of: R1 Solutions to "Shit for government"

Disclaimer: this is not advice, for entertainment purposes only!   :)



LadyEllen -> RE: the failings of chip and pin; what this means for ID cards (4/2/2007 10:27:15 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

Governments always disarm the population and issue identity cards when they intend to commit genocide on parts of their population.


Well, as long as its immigrants, single mothers, gays and lesbians and the psychotically dangerous, its OK isnt it?

And OK, if shortly afterwards its long term unemployed and other benefit scroungers, and the sick and elderly, its all good, right?

And well, once it becomes apparent from their protests against these "societal reorganisations" that off message political activists, trade unionists, artists and intellectuals are the real problem, then there's no issue for them to go too, yes?

E




NorthernGent -> RE: the failings of chip and pin; what this means for ID cards (4/2/2007 11:03:04 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

When ID cards were introduced here, my ex mother-in-law said the last time she had an ID card was for the Gestapo and it makes her feel the same now, a prisoner in her own country.



ID cards are tagging devices, plain and simple. It's only a short step away from having a collar 'round your neck with your name and address on - where's the difference? Serious question. I ain't no dog.

There are quite a few reasons why the government want as much data on us as they can possibly get:

1) To understand which groups of people are voting. As a result, they'll be in a position to adjust their manifesto/policies accordingly i.e. they'll ensure their policies match the needs of the people most likely to vote, and thus retain power.

2) Job profiling. They can profile the characteristics and background of people most likely to be top earners, and thus make sure they invest in these types of people in order to maximise wealth creation.

3) DNA - I'm not particularly switched on to DNA profiling, but what are the chances of them identifying the next Richard Bransons through DNA profiling? A possible reason. Imagine if they can identify this simply through DNA - they'll pluck 4 years old kids out of their local school and into some elite school for the entrepreneurs.

4) To keep an eye on everyone. Mind you, we're already the most watched people in the world, so apart from ask us to report to our local police station every day to ensure we're not mugging old grannies, I'm not sure how much further they can take this.

5) To perpetuate the climate of fear i.e. if we need ID cards, then Britain must be a dangerous place etc.

There'll be others.



NorthernGent -> RE: the failings of chip and pin; what this means for ID cards (4/2/2007 11:31:21 AM)

Where there is civil unrest, they'll be on your case within seconds as they'll know your movements through cameras. They can then identify you with ID cards (just match the face on camera to their version of your ID card). Where a person has never committed a crime in his/her life, they can't easily identify you simply from a face on camera, but matching the face to an ID card will solve that problem for the government.

These laws are intended for the sort of people who go on anti-war protests, the sort of people who have never committed a crime in their lives - teachers, social workers, environmentalists etc - people who disagree with the government and make the effort to protest in public. They want to close down mass public protest - as they've always done through British history. They can't send the army to quell protest in the modern day, so they do it by stealth.

Once they've put a name to the face, they can check their details to understand whether or not you have been on previous anti-war marches, or anti-globalisation marches etc, and then categorise you in terms of commitment to protesting the government. They can then stop and search you and detain you without a trial (under new laws). This means they can instantly break up any dissenting groups by targeting the most committed individuals and, ultimately, prevent mass public protest.

What's more, if you can't take a shit without them being on your case, people are less likely to take part in protests - people have families, mortgages etc and many will not risk a spell in jail.

The more I consider these new laws such as detention without a trial, anti-terror laws, stop and search laws on the basis of looking "dodgy", ID card schemes, DNA databases etc, there is only one conclusion to be drawn - it's a fascist police state. What other possible conclusion is there? They're looking after us?  Of course they are - that's why they're sending soldiers to die and using our taxes to kill people in other countries while at the same time neglecting the homeless and the poor.

Tell you what, dangerous times ahead - the Germans didn't see it coming in the 30s. What is it that we can't see coming?

Say there's a war in the Middle East, and economic depression as a result, then people turn to nationalists for order and security. Nationalists with these sort of measures at their disposal - I wouldn't fancy being a British muslim.




LadyEllen -> RE: the failings of chip and pin; what this means for ID cards (4/2/2007 11:54:37 AM)

Wouldnt it just be the greatest of ironies, were it the Muslims who rescued us from an oppressive state!?

But you see, I dont know why they dont just come out and chip us all? It would be easy enough I bet, given that many of us attend the doctor or a hospital once a year. Quick injection - vaccine against bird flu perhaps, as we'd flock for that one given the hype, and in goes the tiny transmitter thats undetectable but to those who have the means.

We then have detectors fitted at doors and road junctions etc, so that every person can be tracked wherever he or she goes from the transmitter signal they are unwittingly emitting. And anyone who finds out about this stuff and protests, or who breaks ranks within the system to do so, we can write off as mentally ill - its just the sort of craziness the paranoid come out with all the time after all. They can then be removed from the population as dangerous psychotics (new legislation recently introduced), and "treated".

This way, we can also identify those who are not chipped with quick detection sweeps of an area. Illegal immigrants can be swept up, and chipped and recruited to the army of observers watching the people in return for acceptance by the system. And we can throw the criminal evaders of the system into that too. Perhaps we could issue them with brown shirts so all know who they are.

E



Real0ne -> RE: the failings of chip and pin; what this means for ID cards (4/2/2007 1:06:35 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

Where there is civil unrest, they'll be on your case within seconds as they'll know your movements through cameras. They can then identify you with ID cards (just match the face on camera to their version of your ID card). Where a person has never committed a crime in his/her life, they can't easily identify you simply from a face on camera, but matching the face to an ID card will solve that problem for the government.



Yes exactly!   Just look at how fast the us found atta's passport after the wtc disaster!!!  Then a car with equipment!!!!!

Fantastic police work! 

Same thing with 7/7 in da hood by you!   i mean just think of how much more efficient they will be with these new id cards.   They will be able to identify the perp at least seconds before impact next time, or the bombs exploding at 7/7!  




petdave -> RE: the failings of chip and pin; what this means for ID cards (4/2/2007 6:37:05 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen
But you see, I dont know why they dont just come out and chip us all? It would be easy enough I bet, given that many of us attend the doctor or a hospital once a year. Quick injection - vaccine against bird flu perhaps, as we'd flock for that one given the hype, and in goes the tiny transmitter thats undetectable but to those who have the means.


Battery life vs. signalling range, primarily. They should have it figured out for you in a couple of years... no worries.

...dave



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