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Bloodplay: Risks and Counters to Risks - 4/4/2007 5:29:00 PM   
damia


Posts: 190
Joined: 10/26/2006
Status: offline 		  i am trying to gather all information on the risks and concerns, and the counters to such, of bloodplay, specifically blood-letting and -drinking. i would like anyone experienced in this to give their opinion of what i have so far. Please note, this will not be attempted without teaching from someone with experience hands-on, in person, and will probably tested on the Top before anyone else. For the purpose of simplicity, the Top is defined as the one doing the blood-letting or -drinking, and the bottom is the one from which the blood is taken. Can anyone think of other risks or concerns? Other counters to risks?

Here we go....

MEDICAL RISKS

Risk: Diseases in the blood that may affect either the Top or the bottom
Counters:
*Prescreening, including
---for the bottom:
=cbc: complete blood count, shows anemia, some viral and bacterial illnesses, and whether the bottom has too few or too many platelets (clotting cells). It also may detect leukemia
=chem 20 (aka smac): Would detect certain other conditions, including diabetes and kidney or liver disease
=vrdl: Standard test for all sexually transmitted diseases except HIV
=HIV test: obviously, a test for HIV
---for the Top:
=vrdl
=HIV test

Risk: bottom's medications
Counters:
*If the bottom takes any medicine, the Top has to make sure S/He knows what the medications are, and if they will have any adverse effects on the Top if S/He is drinking it.
-infection from cuts
*Always use a clean, sterile blade or needle.
*Use a new blade for each person; never share
*Use disinfectant on the area before and after cutting

Risk: bottom loosing too much blood
Counters:
*Keep a first aid kit on hand at all times, including a tournaquet
*Never take more than a pint.
*Never take blood from a bottom who is ill (including colds and any sign of fever)
*The bottom is allowed to call red at any time if they start to feel faint or uncomfortable, and the Top should immediately stop, and start aftercare.

Risk: Cutting a vein, artery, muscle, or tendon
Counters:
*Before any play, the Top should study Gray's Anatomy, and get hands-on training with someone who has experience in blood play
*Keep a first aid kit on hand at all times, as stated earlier.
*Never use needles for blood-letting unless the Top is trained in the use of needles, especially if it is placed directly in a vein or artery.

Risk: bacteria in the bottom's blood
Counter: Reduce risk of bacteria in blood by keeping to a low-risk diet
=Salmonella and e.coli are found in raw eggs, raw meat, and uncooked blood mixed with other foods

Concern: scarring
Counters:
*Never cut deep. Shallow cuts should be made to prevent excessive bleeding and scarring.
*Use an X instead of a line, as this allows for more effect (more blood) but less scarring and pain.
*Use scar-reducing ointment on any cuts as part of aftercare.

Concern: bottom's pain (not a risk/concern if the bottom is masochistic and consents to the pain)
Counters:
*Use an X instead of a line, as this allows for more effect (more blood), but less scarring and pain.
*Never cut deep.
*Never bite to bleed. It's not very effective, and very painful.
*Always use a very sharp, sturdy blade/razor. Do not use a dull or exacto blade. The sharper the blade, the better.
*Don't cut near veins, arteries, muscles, or tendons
*Avoid vital organ areas.

LEGAL RISKS

Risk: Can be seen as assault and battery
Counter: Not sure what the counter to this is, other than confidentiality??

Risk: Consent
Counter: Always be sure to the bottom is a legal, consenting adult (but this is given in BDSM....safe, sane, and consensual)

< Message edited by damia -- 4/4/2007 5:36:06 PM >
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RE: Bloodplay: Risks and Counters to Risks - 4/4/2007 8:32:44 PM   
DommeChains


Posts: 415
Joined: 3/23/2006
Status: offline 		Just a few pointers:  it is VDRL (not vrdl) and it only detects syphilis....not chlamydia, gonorrhea, herpes or HPV which are also sexually transmitted infections/diseases.  Oh yeah, the VDRL also does not detect the presence of either the Hepatitis B or C antibodies or antigens.  Both of these most definitely can be transmitted by sharing blood.  Yes, it would require blood to blood contact for the Hepatitis C but the risk is still present if there are any lesions in the buccal cavity of the person drinking the blood.  Or if the top has any open areas on their hands and is not wearing protective gloves during the bloodletting.

Blood sports can definitely be fun but they do require thorough screening, knowledge of the communicable conditions and risks assumed.  And that is just for drawing blood.  Add in the ingestion or sharing of blood and the risk factor becomes higher.

It sounds as if you have the right idea but I would suggest mentoring with a health professional who is also kinky and can show you on the human body as opposed to a book where to cut, discuss knowledgably the risks of disease transmission and proper techniques for use of needles, scalpels, dissecting probes, et al.

(in reply to damia)
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RE: Bloodplay: Risks and Counters to Risks - 4/4/2007 9:45:51 PM   
damia


Posts: 190
Joined: 10/26/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DommeChains

Just a few pointers:  it is VDRL (not vrdl) and it only detects syphilis....not chlamydia, gonorrhea, herpes or HPV which are also sexually transmitted infections/diseases.  Oh yeah, the VDRL also does not detect the presence of either the Hepatitis B or C antibodies or antigens.  Both of these most definitely can be transmitted by sharing blood.  Yes, it would require blood to blood contact for the Hepatitis C but the risk is still present if there are any lesions in the buccal cavity of the person drinking the blood.  Or if the top has any open areas on their hands and is not wearing protective gloves during the bloodletting.


i have heard that if one donates to a blood bank, they run all the required tests, and will inform the donor if their blood is not acceptable. i assume they would do tests for all stds?

quote:

Blood sports can definitely be fun but they do require thorough screening, knowledge of the communicable conditions and risks assumed.  And that is just for drawing blood.  Add in the ingestion or sharing of blood and the risk factor becomes higher.


Agreed. It is complicated and risky, but well worth it, i think.

quote:

It sounds as if you have the right idea but I would suggest mentoring with a health professional who is also kinky and can show you on the human body as opposed to a book where to cut, discuss knowledgably the risks of disease transmission and proper techniques for use of needles, scalpels, dissecting probes, et al.


A very good idea. Perhaps i could get the name of one that is local-ish to me off the KAP (Kink-aware Professionals) list? A professional, as opposed to someone who has experience in blood play, but is not necessarily licensed or as knowledgable as they say.

(in reply to DommeChains)
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RE: Bloodplay: Risks and Counters to Risks - 4/5/2007 5:58:52 AM   
DommeChains


Posts: 415
Joined: 3/23/2006
Status: offline 		The blood bank does run tests for syphilis, hepatitis and HIV.  I was doing a bit of overkill by mentioning the other STDs but also trying to make sure they are also being taken into consideration.

I think checking into your KAP guide is a good place to start.  Plus check out your local kink community.  Many health professionals are also kinky ya know lol.

And one last thing while reviewing the donor's health status do not forget to ask about any medications or herbal supplements that they are taking.  Different drugs can be used as blood thinners or have the side effect of also causing blood thinning as can such herbs as ginkgo.  It could be a disaster if you cut into some one who takes an agent that prevents the blood from clotting easily and you can't easily control the bleeding.  Plus some folks who take blood thinners or certain herbs also bruise very easily.  Now while bruises can be quite sexy (WEG) most of us do not want them showing when wearing work clothes, etc.

Keep doing your research and success in finding a mentor who is experienced, responsible and has enough solid knowledge of anatomy and human biology to teach you safely how to dance on the razor's edge of blood play.

(in reply to damia)
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RE: Bloodplay: Risks and Counters to Risks - 4/5/2007 6:51:48 AM   
MsBearlee


Posts: 1032
Joined: 2/15/2006
Status: offline 		 
WOW.  It is more than a little refreshing to see folks doing their homework!
 
Congratulations!!!
 
B

(in reply to DommeChains)
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RE: Bloodplay: Risks and Counters to Risks - 4/5/2007 7:00:18 AM   
JerseyKrissi72


Posts: 10238
Joined: 8/21/2006
From: Reed City, Michigan
Status: offline 		     As much as I do enjoy the taste of blood I do NOT engage in this activity for safety reasons...I am diabetic so it wouldn't be too safe for me to be cut and it would require too much blood work and there is nothing that is fool proof so I just entertain the fantasy in my head..it IS nice to know people have done alot of research on this.

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RE: Bloodplay: Risks and Counters to Risks - 4/5/2007 6:00:16 PM   
hisannabelle


Posts: 1992
Joined: 12/3/2006
From: Tallahassee, FL, USA
Status: offline 		could anyone let me know how being anemic affects blood play? i am anemic, and am curious what risks that poses and if there are any counters to it (other than taking tons of iron pills, which i already do, and doesn't seem to help too much).

as a total novice in this department, i really appreciate this thread.


_____________________________

a'ishah (the artist formerly known as annabelle)
i have the kind of beauty that moves...

(in reply to JerseyKrissi72)
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RE: Bloodplay: Risks and Counters to Risks - 4/5/2007 10:15:05 PM   
DommeChains


Posts: 415
Joined: 3/23/2006
Status: offline 		Most...not all....but most anemias are iron deficiency anemias.  Engaging in bloodletting in which the amount you lose is no more than 2-4 ounces at any one time should not be an issue.  This is like 2-4 tablespoons of blood & is about what you lose in a normal to heavy menstrual cycle.  If you are doing needle play you most likely wouldn't be losing any near that amount of blood.  Again, that would depend on how many needles, where (the head/scalp bleeds profusely) and how often.

I am not trying to play doctor hisannabelle but if you are taking iron pills here are a few tips I have used when doing health teaching.  Take your iron pills with a source of vitamin C such as orange or cranberry juice.  Vitamin C greatly enhances the absorbation rate of iron from the gut.  Also avoid taking antiacids at the same time as the iron pills.  The calcium/magnesium found in most antiacids blocks the iron from being absorbed.  The form of iron available in most over the counter supplements is not in a form that the body can easily process.  There are prescription iron supplements which are much more easily absorbed and I have seen folks who did not respond to the OTC iron show great improvement in their blood counts after taking the prescription type.   I have also seen some folks do very well with using prenatal vitamins, oral B12 and taking the supplements with a source of vitamin C.

In addition I would advise anyone who wants to do bloodsports to make sure that you have fluids such as water or sports drinks handy for the donor to replenish their fluids and some simple source of carbohydrate like dried fruit or not too sweet cookies like a graham cracker.  It can be difficult to tell if someone is feeling lightheaded from sub rush or from blood loss so better safe than sorry.

Stepping down off lecture podium now.  Have fun!

(in reply to hisannabelle)
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RE: Bloodplay: Risks and Counters to Risks - 4/5/2007 10:31:22 PM   
damia


Posts: 190
Joined: 10/26/2006
Status: offline 		Anemia can take a variety of forms. The reasons of risk are dependent on the kind of anemia.

It sounds like you have iron-deficiency anemia, which is the most common form of anemia. The causes of iron deficiency are too little iron in the diet, poor absorption of iron by the body, and loss of blood. Iron is an essential component of hemoglobin, the oxygen-carrying pigment in the blood. Without hemoglobin, the blood cannot carry oxygen effectively -- and oxygen is needed for the normal functioning of every cell in the body. Thus, drawing blood from a bottom with iron-deficiency anemia will cause an even further decreased amount of hemoglobin in the bottom, and this can cause the anemia to become much more acute and even fatal, as the body may not get enough oxygen. Blood is kinda useless without oxygen in it, so it is almost as if the body is without blood, which is the literal meaning of the word 'anemia': without blood.

i hope that explains the risk of having iron-deficiency anemia and participating in blood play.

The counter to this is to take a lot of iron supplements. The best absorption of iron is on an empty stomach, but many people are unable to tolerate this and may need to take it with food. Milk and antacids may interfere with absorption of iron and should not be taken at the same time as iron supplements. Vitamin C can increase absorption and is essential in the production of hemoglobin, so vitamin c supplements may also be a good idea (Halls Vitamin C Drops are good..they taste like candy, and you can take as many as you want). Iron-rich foods such as raisins, meats (liver is the highest source), fish, poultry, eggs (yolk), legumes (peas and beans), and whole grain bread are also good to eat.

The hematocrit should return to normal after 2 months of iron therapy, but the iron should be continued for another 6 to 12 months to replenish the body's iron stores, which are contained mostly in the bone marrow.

If an anemic bottom really wants to participate in bloodplay, they should take into account that while a normal person's body can stand the loss of up to 500 ml of blood without serious or lasting effects, the bottom will have a lower maximum loss before there are serious acute consequences. my suggestion would be to ask your doctor what your total blood volume is, if that can be determined (the average adult's is 5,000 to 6,000 ml), and ask how much blood s/he thinks would be considered non-harmful. If they won't tell you without you providing a good reason (and doctors won't consider bloodplay a reason...they'll tell you not to do it, because  it is so dangerous), ask a kink-aware doctor, if you are still serious about -really- wanting to participate in bloodplay. Make sure you do not loose too much blood, and have a first aid kit ready (which you should have anyway)

i hope that helps...some of that is just my observations. i am in no way an expert in medical information, so please don't take my word as final.     

(in reply to hisannabelle)
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RE: Bloodplay: Risks and Counters to Risks - 4/5/2007 11:35:16 PM   
Aswad


Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline 		Screening at a decent blood bank should catch just about everything, as they would otherwise be exposing transfusion patients to the same risk, so the bottom line is that if your partner is a blood donor, the risk of diseases is more or less equivalent to what you'd see from a transfusion, except that donated blood is usually sterilized as well.

I would guess that incompatible blood types might cause sensitization, which poses a theoretical risk. Basically, most people will survive a single blood transfusion from an incompatible donor, so if a test can't be performed and O neg is unavailable, doctors may gamble on this if the oxygen-carrying volume becomes too low. It can also happen due to an error; misread tests, misread charts, etc... After such a transfusion, the body develops a sensitization to it, and will react violently (and most likely fatally) the next time around. I think it's likely that such sensitization will occur from imbibing a significant quantity of incompatible blood, which makes a small (but not negligible) impact on your risks if you lose a lot of blood.

As for the sub, I know one group of people where they were drinking blood from this girl's neck of all places. Which worked just fine ... until someone messed up. Long story short, she ended up in the hospital, with her neck swollen to the point where she had to be intubated until the antibiotics and such had kicked in properly. When she was finally discharged, she had to wear a huge scarf mid-summer for a long time to cover the swelling and discoloration. The level of anatomical knowledge required will depend on how far you intend to go, etc... And accidents do happen sometimes.

(in reply to hisannabelle)
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RE: Bloodplay: Risks and Counters to Risks - 4/6/2007 10:45:30 AM   
DreamyLadySnow


Posts: 359
Joined: 1/23/2005
Status: offline 		Don't forget our friends, the hepatitis family. Oh and hiv can take a while to show up after infection.

I like to do blood play, but I take universal precautions. MMMM fingerpainting....


LS

(in reply to Aswad)
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RE: Bloodplay: Risks and Counters to Risks - 4/6/2007 7:41:50 PM   
ThinkingKitten


Posts: 447
Joined: 6/15/2006
From: Ontari-ari-o
Status: offline 		FR here:
 
No-one has mentioned CJD yet (aka "Mad Cow Disease")...... yet another fatal pathogen potentially transmitted through the blood. There are those of us (who've lived in the UK previously) who are permanently banned from donating blood because of the incredibly remote possibility that we might have contracted this from eating contaminated beef. We're banned because they don't have an effective/reliable test for it yet...... Just thought you might like to know.


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If you can't stand the heat... tell the chef to get out of the kitchen.

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RE: Bloodplay: Risks and Counters to Risks - 4/6/2007 9:18:58 PM   
Aswad


Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline 		Good point. HIV has a latency of up to 6 months between infection and being detectable in a blood sample, as I recall.

(in reply to DreamyLadySnow)
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RE: Bloodplay: Risks and Counters to Risks - 4/6/2007 11:00:22 PM   
hisannabelle


Posts: 1992
Joined: 12/3/2006
From: Tallahassee, FL, USA
Status: offline 		greetings,

thanks for the info on anemia and bloodplay, i appreciate it more than i can say.

and yes, i am iron-deficient anemic...the anemia is pretty mild, so i don't worry too much, but it's been chronic since i was very young and does affect my health even more than a lot of doctors pay attention to (tied up with fatigue issues among other things). so it's something i try to watch out for play-wise.

thanks again :)

annabelle.


_____________________________

a'ishah (the artist formerly known as annabelle)
i have the kind of beauty that moves...

(in reply to Aswad)
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RE: Bloodplay: Risks and Counters to Risks - 4/8/2007 2:06:05 PM   
mythi


Posts: 257
Joined: 2/25/2007
From: Naples, FL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: damia

The counter to this is to take a lot of iron supplements. The best absorption of iron is on an empty stomach, but many people are unable to tolerate this and may need to take it with food. Milk and antacids may interfere with absorption of iron and should not be taken at the same time as iron supplements. Vitamin C can increase absorption and is essential in the production of hemoglobin, so vitamin c supplements may also be a good idea (Halls Vitamin C Drops are good..they taste like candy, and you can take as many as you want). Iron-rich foods such as raisins, meats (liver is the highest source), fish, poultry, eggs (yolk), legumes (peas and beans), and whole grain bread are also good to eat.



In dealing with a recent diagnosis of iron-deficiency anemia I was reading everything I could get my hands on about the subject, and from what I found I would agree with everything above except that the best absorption is on an empty stomach.  Everything I found that mentioned it at all said that iron supplements are best absorbed when taken in conjunction with actual iron-rich foods, and even more so when those are combined with vitamin C or C-rich foods. 

I can barely take iron supplements at all, so empty stomach isnt even an option, but I'm curious about the discrepency between that fact and the one I read.  Ya never know with this internet thing who's right!

FYI hisannabelle - I buy Solgar's Gentle Iron and empty out about 1/3 of the capsule, then take that twice a day with food, plus a multi {Solgar's Omnium - which is expensive, but AMAZING imho} at another meal and that also contains some iron.  I also try to be pretty good about eating at least some iron rich foods.  According to my lab tests, that seems to be raising up both my blood iron levels and my iron stores pretty rapidly.

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Flannery O’Connor

(in reply to damia)
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