RE: Advice needed in a major way (Full Version)

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MasterLostsoul -> RE: Advice needed in a major way (4/15/2007 1:49:38 PM)

Thanks all for the good advice and support so far.  Basically, I think we have decided on what amounts to a two pronged legal attack.

The first will be on the legal side to get the money they are holding back on, and yes I agree it needs to be done.

The second part is still being thought on.  She is thinking about legally changing her name which in effect would pretty much end everything with the abusive household she came from. The way I think we both see it is that regardless whether she stays safe with me, or runs back to her dad, essentially it will be the same. she will lose him regardless knowing what all she has been through.

Right now as it stands, she is doing a lot better.  But let me say point blank that I do not believe in the "lead with a whip, make the slave jump through hoops, and beat theholy hell out of them if they fall."  I have dealt with abuse cases on more times than I care to admit over my 16 years in the lifestyle.  It is not easy at times, but I know how to deal with a lot of it.

We will also look into a restraining order against her father.  We will keep all posted, but she is off to a pretty good start :).  As for counceling, we will also be looking into it in the near future. Right now our main focus is to get her settled in  and finish covering the main bases on work, getting her a state id card and a couple of other things. Beyond that i think we will be fine. 

We will keep all updated. thanks once more from both of us.

Lostsoul and his lovely adorable kitten.





MiladyElaine -> RE: Advice needed in a major way (4/15/2007 6:18:17 PM)

I would forget all about the money and her so called father and that whole side of the family!  If she sees him again, even in a court setting, he can still intimidate just by staring at her.  He could get word to her that he will hurt You if she doesn't come back and if he does do that, she of course shouldn't listen.



Aswad -> RE: Advice needed in a major way (4/17/2007 12:06:57 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: nyrisa

I would recommend she see a lawyer to advise her about the best way to pursue her legal rights to her inheritance, and also work on establishing herself as a mentally capable independent adult, to forestall future attempts by her father to have her declared incompetent.


Emphasis mine.

Really, if she's been through all that, it will be possible for him to do that.

The important thing right now is to get in touch with a lawyer and a psychiatrist. Both need to be informed of the situation straight away, preferably in writing, so that you all get to gather your thoughts on the topic. They'll ask the questions they need to know.

Establish, early on, that she is competent, and be prepared to fight any attempt to get a finding to the contrary. Then start going after the money.

Note that a potentially offensive, but valid, question might be asked as to whether she might be making this up. I'm not saying she did, although I've seen it happen, just that the question might come up.

quote:

This means doing the mundane stuff of life, such as working, paying bills, establishing credit rating, etc. If she goes from dependent on her father, to dependent on you, then she has no way to demonstrate her ability to make her own decisions when her father tries to coerce her home at some future time.


Good advice.



Aswad -> RE: Advice needed in a major way (4/17/2007 12:21:54 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Celeste43

Additionally, get an order of protection against the father.


Definitely a good idea, although not always possible. If he is as psycho as they indicate, he might be very good at sneaking out of such things.

I'd seriously consider learning effective self-defense. Practical shooting, if she's of legal age to carry a firearm. Proper use of a taser, stun-gun, or mace if not. Hand-to-hand self defense (particularly how to be aware of your surroundings, noticing threats before they turn to violence, how to get away, how to escape grabs and holds, and how to quickly incapacitate) would be advisable in either case. If she'd be willing to seriously harm the attacker, I would suggest having a look at Sayoc-Kali, which is a knife art that one can quickly bring to an effective level.

Given that her father is using thugs to go after his victims, these will likely have some experience in how to do things, and even projecting the idea that they might not make it this time can be useful. If you know a thing or two about such matters, it's a dead giveaway if someone holds a knife properly, for instance.

quote:

However I'd have gotten a private detective to check out the attempted murders with no police interest. That does not ring true here.


Definitely, if they can afford a good one. I don't think a crap one will be useful. A good one will also dispel any doubts about the veracity of the story, and those will crop up when things have been quiet a while and the effects of trauma make themselves known.

quote:

Neither does an aunt threatening state hospitalization for life. For one thing, it is illegal to treat a family member. If you can prove it, you can have her license pulled. For another, no psych hospital will incarcerate someone forever for a suicide attempt. Six weeks until antidepressant meds kick in at most.


It takes a lot to threaten something like that, yes, and it can definitely get her licence pulled.

However, if she does have her hospitalized, there is some grounds for concern. Antidepressant meds can take longer than six weeks, as some people do not respond to the first 3-4 they try, and many places use ECT for patients considered suicidal, which can seriously complicate things like this sometimes, due to retrograde amnesia.

And keeping someone ill is trivial, even within the confines of what might seem to be proper treatment. Antipsychotics, for instance, can screw with your head. A lot. Yet there are cases when they will be used.

I would definitely draft a Mental Health Care Advance Directive, and inform the lawyer of it. This will help insure proper treatment if they should try something like that, as well as making it possible to prevent the father and/or aunt from visiting or affecting her treatment. Name the lawyer her legal guardian in the event of incompetence in the directive, to avoid having the family get this position.

quote:

Because going from one man's control into another's is not healthy for someone incapable of choosing this. And until she has demonstrated the ability to control her own life, it will be thought unhealthy for her to be in a d/s relationship.


Indeed. There might be definite issues with her consent in the first place, although I'd defer those to later in order to avoid further aggravating things by depriving her of her choice. But any court, and most medical professionals, will see it as unhealthy.

A kink-aware professional (both the lawyer and the pdoc) could possibly be a great help here.



BeachMystress -> RE: Advice needed in a major way (4/17/2007 1:16:41 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad
Note that a potentially offensive, but valid, question might be asked as to whether she might be making this up. I'm not saying she did, although I've seen it happen, just that the question might come up.

I hate to say it, but this is the first thing that came to mind when I finished reading the original post. I've known people who have made up even worse stories than this. You feel that it is so bad it must be true! Even if the cops didn't charge the father, the incidents can be researched. There would be police reports and newspaper articles on both. Personally, I'd want to read them and then try to talk with the people involved. If nothing else, having the documentation of the incidents will be something concrete to give the lawyer. And depositions of the people attacked saying that they honestly felt her father was behind the attacks would possibly also help the case. To the OP, have you ever actually talked to her father?

OP, I realize all of this has you turned upside down and inside out. You need support through it as much as she does. I suggest you both do single therapy as well as couples therapy. The link for KAP that Aswad mentioned is http://www.ncsfreedom.org/kap/



GrizzlyBear -> RE: Advice needed in a major way (4/17/2007 1:41:47 AM)

Watch out for restraining orders.  I believe you will find that it is necessary to put her address on it, to tell him where he can't show up.  Once it is filed, even if her address is not shown, it will tell him where to look.  Restraining orders basically work only against sane, law abiding people. 

Rather like gun laws in that respect.  Criminals will find a way around, and sociopaths disregard them as unimportant compared to their own desires.  That father sounds at least one if not both.

His underlings were mentioned.  Is he involved in organized crime?  That puts all bets off.



MasterLostsoul -> RE: Advice needed in a major way (4/17/2007 2:10:42 AM)

Basically, we cut him off totally for right now.  But if he is stupid enough to try sending down people which I really doubt he will at this stage am not all that worried. Given my martial arts background and the fact there are 3 police main district buildings within 5 minutes of me I really am not worried. 

As for the long post, will read later on.  Too tired to read much else for one night.  But I think we have things pretty much under control.  This is not the first abuse case I have dealt with over the years, and I always plan ahead on several contentiency plans just in case.



swtnsparkling -> RE: Advice needed in a major way (4/17/2007 2:54:04 AM)

quote:

Domspaintoy
Something about this just doesnt ring true ... BUT thats my opinion.

Same here- gut feeling Sounds all too drama wacky to me.
but if it is true I'd say
Contact the Grandmothers Lawyer who did the will- then fly back with her for support. Get what is due her- fly home and be done with that Lousey Crap of a father. I agree she should also see a therapist. Anyone who really has lived like that needs a therapist.






Aswad -> RE: Advice needed in a major way (4/17/2007 3:06:18 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BeachMystress

I hate to say it, but this is the first thing that came to mind when I finished reading the original post. I've known people who have made up even worse stories than this. You feel that it is so bad it must be true!


It wasn't the first thing that came to my mind, as I've seen people that are this bad. But, yeah, it popped in there before I was done reading. Not that I'm assuming it is the case, especially as it's kind of our job to be on the OP's side, but there will be questions raised in this direction, and it's kind of important to point out that they are valid questions.

The world would be a better place for the people that go through this kind of thing if people didn't make up stories, but the chances of putting a stop to made-up stories are about as slim as the chances of putting a stop to all the real cases. I'll keep assuming that the OP's sub is telling the truth, without embellishment, but I'd definitely advise the OP to check it out just to make sure. There will most likely be doubts about this when the dust settles and the trauma of such experiences start to cause obvious mental quirks, and it would be best to preempt this problem before it arises.

quote:

If nothing else, having the documentation of the incidents will be something concrete to give the lawyer. And depositions of the people attacked saying that they honestly felt her father was behind the attacks would possibly also help the case. To the OP, have you ever actually talked to her father?


Talking to the father at this point would be fruitless, most likely. But if he's talked to him in the past, it would give useful information. As to depositions, that'll also be useful. Having documentation for the lawyer, about anything and everything, will be extremely useful. The more info s/he has, the better decisions s/he can make.

quote:

OP, I realize all of this has you turned upside down and inside out. You need support through it as much as she does. I suggest you both do single therapy as well as couples therapy. The link for KAP that Aswad mentioned is http://www.ncsfreedom.org/kap/


Yeah, therapy will be useful for her in recovering, and for him in dealing with the situation and her needs. Kink aware professionals are a definite plus.




Aswad -> RE: Advice needed in a major way (4/17/2007 3:25:37 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterLostsoul

Basically, we cut him off totally for right now.  But if he is stupid enough to try sending down people which I really doubt he will at this stage am not all that worried. Given my martial arts background and the fact there are 3 police main district buildings within 5 minutes of me I really am not worried.


You shouldn't rely on the police, even if they are close by. If they're not there when something is going down, they won't be able to stop anything. Remember that you will also need to leave the house as well, occasionally, and that means possibly being in an area where the response times will be longer. And Martial Arts is very useful (I know from experience), but it isn't a panacea. Carrying a licenced firearm (concealed carry if your state allows) or suitable combat knife is definitely worth considering.

Since the threat was directed at her, I'd be more concerned with her safety. Teaching her how to use a taser or other stun weapon effectively, as well as some effective techniques (awareness, escaping grabs/holds, eye gouging, headbutts, etc.) would make a fairly useful start in that direction.

I'd recommend teaching her about the Five Stages of Violent Crime and the Pyramid of Personal Safety. The former is useful in recognizing something before it goes down, as well as avoiding a legal hassle over the use of self defense (the model is used in evaluating the appropriateness of force), while the latter is useful in establishing an effective defense against threats, even without resorting to physical violence.

Given your MA background, these things may well be second-nature to you, while to her it will probably be news. Marc Young puts these things in easily understood and concise language. Very pragmatic.

quote:

Too tired to read much else for one night.  But I think we have things pretty much under control.  This is not the first abuse case I have dealt with over the years, and I always plan ahead on several contentiency plans just in case.


Sounds good. Don't wear yourself down. I certainly didn't mean to overwhelm anyone.

Kudos on what you've done so far, and on setting out to help her in the first place.

Sincerely,
Aswad.




Aswad -> RE: Advice needed in a major way (4/17/2007 3:28:26 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: swtnsparkling

Same here- gut feeling Sounds all too drama wacky to me.


These things always sound crazy and improbable until one is suddenly in the middle of it actually happening. I know from experience what it can be like to live in a soap opera, and know others that have experienced the same. Most people, fortunately, never get to see how crazy life can get sometimes, and cannot relate. Valid questions arise, though.




MasterLostsoul -> RE: Advice needed in a major way (4/17/2007 3:46:34 AM)

Kitten: Thanks all who believe it was made up.  I wonder if the broken jaws, legs arms ribs and all of the other bruises were made up too he caused.

I think we are done with this topic..  She really did not need ones thinking she made it all up and it is not helping.. 

As for her father.  Yes i spoke briefly a few times with him, and yes, based on my experience, he is a complete psychopath...  We will leave it at that as the last word.   It angers me to see people think abuse cases are all made up and do not happen.  Tell that to the next girl someone sees in a hospital fucked over by one of these asses that her injuries are all a figment of your imagination.

Oh yes, I assume some of the scars on her body are made up too?  *just shakes head and walks out of the topic.



lostsoulskitten -> RE: Advice needed in a major way (4/17/2007 4:22:06 AM)

This one wonders if this will settle any doubt on my father.

Daddy please


Daddy please don't hurt me
She cries as he hits her over and over
What did she do this time to deserve this treatment?
Crying tears
Bleeding from the nose,
Wishing she could hide from him.
Everywhere she turned around,
There was hitting and screaming
Screaming "you little whore, you little bitch"
As he hits her arm with a belt,
Causing welts to appear.
As he sees the welts appear,
He twisted her arm hard enough to break it.
Her tears, her pain mean nothing to him.
Daddy please stop hurting me.
She screams louder.
Each time she screamed and cried,
The pain increased.
Daddy why are you doing this to me?
She asks.
His response, "Shut up you little bitch."
Cryingm screaming, bleeding, bruised, burned.
"Daddy please."

From my personal joural. 



zindyslave -> RE: Advice needed in a major way (4/17/2007 12:34:43 PM)

No one was saying it was a lie just saying it was possible, if you have ever seen some of the made up stories on here you would understand why we are a little skeptical. I understand what abuse can do I have friends that have been through it so I don't think it seems impossible or that made up but we have seen alot of made up stories on here and it makes us cautious.



justheather -> RE: Advice needed in a major way (4/17/2007 2:00:18 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Domspaintoy

Something about this just doesnt ring true ... BUT thats my opinion.


An opinion we share.

Perhaps she could contact the person sending these checks and tell them that she has moved to another city and please stop payment on them and forward the replacement checks to her at her new address.

But that wouldnt be anywhere near as dramatic or interesting an option.

]



Aswad -> RE: Advice needed in a major way (4/17/2007 2:43:52 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterLostsoul

Kitten: Thanks all who believe it was made up.  I wonder if the broken jaws, legs arms ribs and all of the other bruises were made up too he caused.


I never said I believed it was made up.

I said I believed it to be true, evne though I've seen cases to the contrary. And I said that questions will be raised during any legal proceedings or such. However, I was not aware of injuries to her person, maybe I missed that in your post. In that case, I must sincerely apologize for the comment about potential doubts.

quote:

I think we are done with this topic..  She really did not need ones thinking she made it all up and it is not helping.. 


I'm sorry you feel that way. I was actually trying to help. She definitely doesn't need anyone thinking she made it up, I agree. But some people will think that, and it will be some people's job to ask that question. I'm just saying prepare for the question, because some people will ask it.

If there's any way we can help, just let us know.

quote:

As for her father.  Yes i spoke briefly a few times with him, and yes, based on my experience, he is a complete psychopath...  We will leave it at that as the last word.


There are some definite psychos out there, so I'm very sympathetic to that. I've worked for one that used to be a cop. He was forced to quit his position as a cop for unspecified reasons. Starting the next month, police violence statistics for our county went appreciably down, and stayed that way.

quote:

It angers me to see people think abuse cases are all made up and do not happen.  Tell that to the next girl someone sees in a hospital fucked over by one of these asses that her injuries are all a figment of your imagination.


I've never said abuse cases are all made up, and I don't think anyone else meant to do so, either. I tried to say that people like your sub get to suffer this doubt because others make up cases, and that this is unfortunate.

I've talked abuse victims out of suicide in the past, and I have close family members that have been victims of CSA as well, so I know what it's like to deal with it.

quote:

Oh yes, I assume some of the scars on her body are made up too?  *just shakes head and walks out of the topic.


Try to assume good faith. Now that you've pointed out these things, any misunderstandings will have been cleared up. Walking out doesn't solve anything. Some of us have been trying to help (e.g. KAP link, advice re lawyers and therapy, aunt, will, preparations, etc.).




sisambergris -> RE: Advice needed in a major way (4/17/2007 3:05:51 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

Easy answer:  you can't make her leave an abusive life unless she's ready for change.





Too true.  Get her into some counseling.   I was seeing a Dom (my first) and he was quite abusive.  It took my current vanilla to convince me to leave.  Cut it off.  Not engage in dialog to explain.  Just tell him I wasn't safe in a letter and GO.
It hurt a lot.  It still hurts after six months and I regularly feel guilty/want to apologize and explain to him.  I have been in training as a grief counselor and as someone who helps abused women get help.  Doesn't matter.  She needs support and some formal counseling as to what abuse is, and how insidious the mind can be.  Her own AND her father.  Even though I can see the pattern of abuse and where it would have ended for me (the last incident resulted in his raping me,  and I kept telling myself he did not mean it), it took OUTSIDE help for me to get away.   From what I have seen over the years,  it usually does.  Kudos to you for being there.  Now don't try and go it alone.

Amber



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