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Mentors/Protectors for newbie Dom/Domme? - 4/22/2005 12:47:38 PM

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There is much discussion about the mental and physical safety of submissives venturing out to their first munch, their first meeting, or their first play party; but what about the other side? Should the dominant half go out without the same concerns? I'm not referring to the standard safety precautions. It goes without saying that both parties need to be sure that they aren't going someplace to meet someone who will do them physical harm. I'm talking about falling into a trap of emotional involvement.

Playing on the first meeting is dangerous enough, but what about those who collar or offer a collar on the first meeting? Lately I've heard from a few people who have a sort of "buyers remorse" because they got wrapped up and so excited about their first real life experience that over a weekend they went from first meeting to "owning" a collared slave. Is is possible? Sure, but not as often as it seems to be occurring.

The reality is that many doms, especially those without a lot of experience, lack confidence and appear desperate. Many subs take advantage of this. It should be no different than a Dom taking advantage of a desperate sub, but Doms aren't given the same consideration. There also seems to be a dominant stubbornness not to ask for advise or help. As if doing so would be "un-Domly".

In the vanilla world as in ours, there is nothing more exciting than the "first time". But it's not the time to plan where the kids you'll have will go to college. Especially if it's your first lifestyle experience it is easy to get caught up in the moment. I'd suggest that as part of your pre-meeting safety call and life-line, you commit to discussing the meeting with someone who can help you sort out emotionally and mentally what you experienced. After getting drunk on the pleasure everyone needs to recover from the hang over. The hair of the dog method only keeps you drunk longer. At some point you have to access and determine if sober life with this person will be as exciting as the drunken party. It's here when having a mentor may be helpful.

RE: Mentors/Protectors for newbie Dom/Domme? - 4/22/2005 12:57:40 PM

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This IS a sensitive issue for me...

I dont think SUBS should NEED a protector/mentor! They are independent adults. There's NO REASON they should need someone as a watchdog to make sure they act like one. It lets subs act like passive, ineffective, mindless pieces of ass and fosters an environment of dependence.

Let's not even go into all the "nice mentors" who use it as a great way to sound like a knight in shining armor to a newbie and abuse the whole idea.

People will make mistakes, people need help from others and I fully support being there to give advice, that's part of why I use this board.

But we don't need all sorts of special "mentors" just because we happen to be dominants or submissives. If you don't feel confident in going out in public as an independent adult, if you don't feel you can make an adult judgement on partners, what makes you think you know how to choose a good mentor?

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

RE: Mentors/Protectors for newbie Dom/Domme? - 4/22/2005 1:21:56 PM

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quote:

After getting drunk on the pleasure everyone needs to recover from the hang over. The hair of the dog method only keeps you drunk longer. At some point you have to access and determine if sober life with this person will be as exciting as the drunken party. It's here when having a mentor may be helpful.

Although I've never come across the situation you are talking about, I can see how it could happen. And I'm sure it's just as likely on either side of the kneel too. I'm a strong believer in the idea that just because you have a dominant personality doesn't make you a Dominant. There is a lot of talk about submissive/slaves being trained or mentored, and yes, I agree, Dominants need it too. Your attitudes, or behaviors or beliefs may come naturally, but swinging a flogger doesn't. It would be great if E/everyone, nilla and otherwise, took the time to really think through some of thier decisions and talk to others about it. It isn't "un-domly", it's smart.

Anyway... I agree Merc & beth... in fact, it just dawned on me... I have a nephew and I swear I have no idea how many times he's been married, but I know he has married every woman he has ever slept with... I swear to you. Of course now he works to pay child support and little else... That's sort of the same thing, just harder to get out of.

Jewel

PS
Hope some of this made sense..

_____________________________

Don't ask, trust me, you won't like the answer... no one ever does.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

RE: Mentors/Protectors for newbie Dom/Domme? - 4/22/2005 1:26:25 PM

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quote:

If you don't feel confident in going out in public as an independent adult, if you don't feel you can make an adult judgment on partners, what makes you think you know how to choose a good mentor?

Emerald,
Have you ever heard the phrase; "He who represents himself has a fool for a client."? Of course everyone should be self reliant and capable of making good decisions but why does that preclude getting advise from others? Others who may have "been there - done that". "Mentor" is a label to put on a person you can trust and openly discuss matters of importance. They could be life matters, business matters, or just someone to get a second opinion. The mentors you speak of were never mentors. They sound like opportunists. A mentor isn't a knight in shinning armor. He/she is a sounding board, a devil's advocate, he/she does not even have to be a friend.

I commonly solicit advise. Most times I don't really need it or take it, but the mere process helps me with my decisions. We don't need mentors? Without them you're doomed to make a lot more mistakes than with them. Maybe you don't care for the term. Like "slave" it doesn't quite convey the same thing to ALL. But the first person who touched poison ivy, started itching and then passed the word on to others in his tribe to avoid touching that particular vine, was a "mentor". There are a lot of poison people out there disguised as flowers. If I was starting out I'd be grateful to have someone point them out.

(in reply to EmeraldSlave2)

RE: Mentors/Protectors for newbie Dom/Domme? - 4/22/2005 1:52:06 PM

ajewl

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Wouldn't this be a great solution to a growing problem and in a perfect world, new comers would seek out the guidance of a reputable Mentor. New dominants do need to have some sort of prior exposure to real time life style experiences before they go out and make life altering decisions. Have you ever talked with some newer peole who have the misconception that they "know it all" just because they have done alot of reading, or seen a few movies? Instead of being rude to them, why not offer them some guidance, a mentor for any new comer this a great concept...but then again, they have to be willing to put their own ego to the side and ask for your help.

Absolutely, dominants and submissives need that support network of friends to help them make informed decisions. Safety calls and using your life lines work for both, there is no shame for having and using your common sense.

Personally, I don't think that I will ever know it all when it comes to life, but I sure do love learning new things!

Best wishes.

(in reply to EmeraldSlave2)

RE: Mentors/Protectors for newbie Dom/Domme? - 4/22/2005 2:01:16 PM

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One thing I've noticed becoming more prevalent (and I believe a primary reason the practice of mentor/mentee is becoming more frowned upon) is the mentor/protector being in some way "involved" with the submissive/slave...as in plays with them or has a sexual relationship with them. I know everyone does things differently...but where I come from, a protector/mentor is *NOT* involved sexually nor does he/she play with those under his/her protection. It kinda negates the whole point, don'tcha think? In my world (ymmv), a protector/mentor gives advice (and as Merc said...acts as a sounding board) when asked, but the final decision remains in the hands of the submissive.

This type of relationship can be particularly beneficial for a submissive/slave who is interested in attending munches and play parties, but does not enjoy being swarmed upon entry. Master has one occasion (okay...just one time..lol) allowed me to briefly attend a play party under the protection of a domina he respects. Had he not done so, I would not have been permitted to attend.

So while the image of some defenseless damsel needing a knight in shining armor to protect her makes me chuckle, I personally feel that there is still a place for this type of relationship in the lifestyle. Again, ymmv.

best regards,
fate

*Edited to change domme to domina as I recalled that said domina dislikes being referred to as a domme.

And edited yet again because I can't spell.

< Message edited by stormsfate -- 4/22/2005 2:04:55 PM >

_____________________________

Vision? What do you know about MY vision? My vision would turn your world upside down, tear asunder your illusions and the sanctuary of your own ignorance crashing down around you! Now ask yourself, are you really ready to see that vision? [/size

(in reply to ajewl)

RE: Mentors/Protectors for newbie Dom/Domme? - 4/22/2005 2:12:50 PM

ProtagonistLily

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quote:

One thing I've noticed becoming more prevalent (and I believe a primary reason the practice of mentor/mentee is becoming more frowned upon) is the mentor/protector being in some way "involved" with the submissive/slave...as in plays with them or has a sexual relationship with them. I know everyone does things differently...but where I come from, a protector/mentor is *NOT* involved sexually nor does he/she play with those under his/her protection. It kinda negates the whole point, don'tcha think? In my world (ymmv), a protector/mentor gives advice (and as Merc said...acts as a sounding board) when asked, but the final decision remains in the hands of the submissive.

quote:

<SNIP> regards,
fate

fate,

I agree that "mentor/protector" is often abused where subs/slaves are concerned and I agree that a sexual relationship can break that relationship down. But don't you think that the Doms need Mentors too?

L

_____________________________

"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind"
~Dr. Seuss~

(in reply to stormsfate)

RE: Mentors/Protectors for newbie Dom/Domme? - 4/22/2005 2:31:11 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

There is much discussion about the mental and physical safety of submissives venturing out to their first munch, their first meeting, or their first play party; but what about the other side? Should the dominant half go out without the same concerns? I'm not referring to the standard safety precautions. It goes without saying that both parties need to be sure that they aren't going someplace to meet someone who will do them physical harm. I'm talking about falling into a trap of emotional involvement.

Playing on the first meeting is dangerous enough, but what about those who collar or offer a collar on the first meeting? Lately I've heard from a few people who have a sort of "buyers remorse" because they got wrapped up and so excited about their first real life experience that over a weekend they went from first meeting to "owning" a collared slave. Is is possible? Sure, but not as often as it seems to be occurring.

The reality is that many doms, especially those without a lot of experience, lack confidence and appear desperate. Many subs take advantage of this. It should be no different than a Dom taking advantage of a desperate sub, but Doms aren't given the same consideration. There also seems to be a dominant stubbornness not to ask for advise or help. As if doing so would be "un-Domly".

In the vanilla world as in ours, there is nothing more exciting than the "first time". But it's not the time to plan where the kids you'll have will go to college. Especially if it's your first lifestyle experience it is easy to get caught up in the moment. I'd suggest that as part of your pre-meeting safety call and life-line, you commit to discussing the meeting with someone who can help you sort out emotionally and mentally what you experienced. After getting drunk on the pleasure everyone needs to recover from the hang over. The hair of the dog method only keeps you drunk longer. At some point you have to access and determine if sober life with this person will be as exciting as the drunken party. It's here when having a mentor may be helpful.

If someone so flippantly "collars" a sub because of their lack of experience or over-excitement, they will just as casually "uncollar" them. If a sub has any real experience, he/she will recognize the impulsive "collaring" as roleplay at best and educate or turn down the naive party. You make it sound like the subs will take advantage of this perhaps -- but to gain what? If it's an empty collaring, it's probably forgotten the next day. Someone who puts no weight on what "collaring" means to them and readilyoffers it up will just as easily forget about it.

Isn't this like an inexperienced teenager making out with a guy behind the football bleachers and she then thinks she's "his girl"? She finds out it doesn't work that way. She grows up.

Isn't it like when a lover says to the other in the heat of passion, "I love you!" and some people actually believe it, even though they just met?

I don't think this is an issue specific to kinky people. There are just as many naive/inexperienced vanilla people running around making all kinds of rash decisions and reading too much into things. What happens? They learn and move on.

The idea of mentors/protectors to me just opens up a whole new avenue for exploitation of the naive. I personally would never had accept anyone wanting to "mentor" me or suggest I needed it; I'd respectfully ask them to mind their own business.

Or is there an assumption that kinky people are somehow less "wordly" when it comes to how relationships work? They don't ask questions if they are confused what this word "collar" means?

Akasha

_____________________________

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(in reply to Mercnbeth)

RE: Mentors/Protectors for newbie Dom/Domme? - 4/22/2005 2:59:15 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
If I was starting out I'd be grateful to have someone point them out.

You must have missed the part where I wrote:

People will make mistakes, people need help from others and I fully support being there to give advice, that's part of why I use this board.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

RE: Mentors/Protectors for newbie Dom/Domme? - 4/22/2005 3:04:19 PM

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quote:

There is much discussion about the mental and physical safety of submissives venturing out to their first munch, their first meeting, or their first play party; but what about the other side? Should the dominant half go out without the same concerns? I'm not referring to the standard safety precautions. It goes without saying that both parties need to be sure that they aren't going someplace to meet someone who will do them physical harm. I'm talking about falling into a trap of emotional involvement.

I think the reason why we don't hear alledged dominants whining about being scared is because of the alledged persona a dominant fits under. People are people plain and simple. Deep down we are all the same no matter what side of the whip we stand on.

I have protected dominants in the past and I'm sure I will in the future. I think it just depends on how well the person is tuned in with themselves. If they can ask for help and still feel a man or a woman. Some people cannot.

I'd advise anyone to run if they see someone claiming to be a mentor. Those who are need not advertise. Only those desperate need to.
People do need to stay safe no matter what that entails. If it is a mentor or protector, whatever they would like to call it.

For some reason a great many people get hurt within the scene because they seem to have an idea it is different than real life. People have more integrity or something.
That simply is not the case.

Last month when we were all in the hot tub someone walked up to me. (well you know what I mean) asked me to vouch for someone to go back to Ivans and play with them. I told them I could not I did not know how they played, yet they still went.

If a person is not willing to heed the advice of others, what do you do then?

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

RE: Mentors/Protectors for newbie Dom/Domme? - 4/22/2005 3:15:47 PM

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We, as people, give advice. We also accept it. But we cannot expect that what was right for one person, will be right for us as individuals. We take the knowledge we discover and use it for our own purpose. We are responsible for ourselves, whether Dominant, submissive in nature - top or bottom.

Mentors IMO are people you look up to. People whos' advice is what they did. but never on what you should do. They are there to pick up the pieces and explain what they think went wrong and to listen to your fears without judgement and with compassion.

A mentor is a person, who doesn't know that they are one.

Peace and Love

_____________________________

.dark.

...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

RE: Mentors/Protectors for newbie Dom/Domme? - 4/22/2005 5:15:03 PM

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I didn't need a mentor to protect me. I appreciated having a mentor to help me come into myself. I'm sure I would have done a fine job on my own. It was much more fulfilling because of he took part in the process. I know it was a better process because of his friendship, mentorship and love.

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

RE: Mentors/Protectors for newbie Dom/Domme? - 4/22/2005 6:06:57 PM

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I am sure that this will cause many gasps throughout the crowd but none of this is my idea. There is an actual group here that does things just a bit different than most of the groups out there today. It is one of the largest groups here and one of the most respected. It is also one of the most active and fun....yes FUN places to go.

When a person applies for membership to the group they are welcomed. Very soon after they are "interviewed" by members of the board. The interview is really just conversation regarding your personal thoughts on the lifestyle and what you are looking to get out of it, not a put you on the spot formal interview. Based upon your own personality and what you are trying to achieve, you are assigned a mentor. Experienced submissives mentor submissives and experienced Dominants mentor dominants. Any interactions between mentors and newcomers that is found to be unscrupulous is reason for banishment from the group. There is also safeguards in place for if the mentor you are originally assigned is just not someone you "click" with. You can always request a change.

No one is assumed to be experienced based upon their own proclamations, even if you claim to have 50 years of real time experience. Unless you have an established reputation in the community, you start from the ground up. All play by newcomers is very closely monitored. There are protocols, although they are not stiflingly strict, but basic respect and politeness is an absolute must.

It works very well and gets very little criticism. I think that is due to the fact that those who run the group and those who are mentors are very open minded, non-judgmental people who are not trying to force their own personal way of doing things down anyone's throat. They are there simply to guide, offer options and alternatives and ensure that everyone's experience within the group is a positive one.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

RE: Mentors/Protectors for newbie Dom/Domme? - 4/22/2005 6:10:38 PM

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What do they do with switches?

(in reply to mistoferin)

RE: Mentors/Protectors for newbie Dom/Domme? - 4/22/2005 6:49:38 PM

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mistoferin how do you find out about the group?

(in reply to mistoferin)

RE: Mentors/Protectors for newbie Dom/Domme? - 4/22/2005 6:51:30 PM

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Well that is a very good question and to be honest with you, I am not certain of the answer. I will try to find out though.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to EmeraldSlave2)

RE: Mentors/Protectors for newbie Dom/Domme? - 4/22/2005 6:54:31 PM

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quote:

mistoferin how do you find out about the group?

LdyAuburn, I will get the necessary info and respond to you in private email if you are interested. I couldn't help but notice that it would be a rather long trip for you though....lol.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to LdyAuburn)

RE: Mentors/Protectors for newbie Dom/Domme? - 4/22/2005 6:56:47 PM

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*Should the dominant half go out without the same concerns?
--When it comes to a person's emtotional involvement...people tend to not be rational beings especially with affairs of the heart. The whole wine ya and dine ya process is just a courtship. Some people when first meeting are on their best behavior in order to impress...mixed in with the "magical" chemistry and you have the possibility of a problem. Yes, people should heed advice of their 'elders' in their lives...you can call the 'elder' the mentor/ guardian/ protector/ whatever word suits you best/ whatever you want....but will the new kid on the block listen to his/her own heart/hormones or their mentor? Advice/opinions...everybody has some, but you can't make another take heed it.

*"buyers remorse"
--Buyer beware!...if one person or both people are fortunate enough to realize they have jumped in over their heads, then they will surely recognize the err in their ways...and hopefully learn from that misfortune. With any luck, someone with the voice of reason will be around to 'talk them down' gently. I know from experience that even more veteran folks have had a bit of 'remorse' and a hard lesson learned...so buyers remorse isn't just for the new kid.

* lack confidence*
--People have to live and learn in order to gain their self confidence. I really do not think you can teach anyone confidence, they have to earn their own.

* appear desperate with a quicky collar*
--That depends on who is judging the contest...oh, shoot, wrong post...hmm, I wouldn't make that judgement call, but then again I don't judge people based on their inexperience or their over-enthusiastic energy.

Lastly, I do agree It isn't "un-domly", it's smart to be more familiar with any "new" interest...when W/we find a new interest we tend to dig deep, learn as much as we can and look to others with experience for advice....but who says we are normal or right about that practice anyway.

I am speaking only for our opinions...Beardyman.

(in reply to LadyAngelika)

RE: Mentors/Protectors for newbie Dom/Domme? - 4/22/2005 7:06:56 PM

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First, I don't view mentors as protectors, and don't consider my mentors as protectors. I have several Dom friends I view as mentors, not in any official title or capacity, but I think of them that way because I know I can go to them for some feedback, a different perspective, or even sometimes just to vent. One of the reasons I consider them a mentor is because they will NOT tell me what I want to hear, compliment me or flatter me with ulterior motives, or try to separate me from my panties. They are honest with me in a way that is not manipulative or bossy, and occasionally told me something they thought I should hear but may not appreciate hearing it. Whether or not I agreed with them or took their advice or heeded their warnings has nothing to do with it. What I appreciate is their frank and tactful answers and opinions and I respect them for that.

I also have a submissive friend whom I am coming to feel comfortable enough with and trust enough to ask her comments or viewpoints on lifestyle issues also. She has more experience than I do and I feel that she listens carefully and then comments in a practical way, which I think is something important in a mentor.

I am in the process of starting my own business. I have a business counselor/mentor through the SCORE program, which is a volunteer program of retired business executives through the Small Business Administration. She is not my boss or protector, but a guide and a huge source of information, encouragement, warnings, and advice.

I have mentored teenage girls through various situations. I am there for them in the way my mentors are for me. I don't expect them to do everything I say and I definitely don't have any ulterior motive.

My sons were involved in baseball teams and although they only involved a two-year span in ages of players, the older boys were told to be like big brothers to the younger ones. This is mentoring. Other social organizations have sponsors, big brothers, big sisters, etc. This is a form of mentoring.

And this makes one weak and needy or is somehow an insult? This implies that the one who is being mentored is somehow lacking in intelligence or independence or competence? To me, this makes them intelligent and human.

I don't understand this confusion about having a mentor and don't recall anywhere else except in this lifestyle hearing it in any negative fashion. In fact, usually the opposite and have seen entire books and television shows giving advice on how to get a mentor. This is how things have been done throughout history -- those who know teaching those who seek to know. It is only when someone who claims to be a mentor and then abuses that honor and role does it become something negative. How many successful people have often referred to having a mentor? Too many to even begin to mention!

Personally, I applaud Dominants who have a mentor or seek one. I know several who do. Or at the very least, a lifestyle friend or acquaintance that they trust whom they can turn to with any questions or for advice. These are casual relationships, and the only reason I know this is because something came up in a casual conversation. They don't show up at every function with this person standing next to them, hovering, watching everything they do, telling them what to do. What mentor does that? In fact, I know the ones I have would tell me to back off if I expected that from them!

No one would ever call me anything BUT a strong, independent, free-thinking woman and I am greatful to those I call Mentor and to those who have turned to me to mentor them. One of the best things I have gained and continue to gain from being mentored and mentoring is humility. Nothing brings one back to reality more than the guiding hand and honest words from someone you trust. Nothing makes me feel more humble than watching someone I have mentored soar and become a wonderful independent woman, and knowing I only played a small part as guide -- they did the work and became that way on their own.

Be well,
harmony

(in reply to LadyAngelika)

RE: Mentors/Protectors for newbie Dom/Domme? - 4/22/2005 7:12:36 PM

ProtagonistLily

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Unfortunately, this thread got hijacked....

The question is not "Should subs have mentors and why." It's "Can Dominants who are new benefit from mentorship by other dominants?"

I think this is an excellent topic and would like to hear others talk about it.

Lily

_____________________________

"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind"
~Dr. Seuss~

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

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