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Fairy tales linked to violent relationships - 4/22/2005 1:54:40 PM

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http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1540&ncid=1540&e=2&u=/afp/20050422/sc_afp/sciencebritainwomen_050422114707

"A study of both parents of primary school children and women who have been involved in domestic abuse claims than those who grew up reading fairy tales are likely to be more submissive as adults."

That's some food for thought...I read fairy tales, still do actually. But I always identify more with the prince or the one doing the saving than the poor dumb girl that just puts up with miserable life.

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boku no kokoro wa mada kimi o sagashiteiru.

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RE: Fairy tales linked to violent relationships - 4/22/2005 2:47:51 PM

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Same here - I have a whole series of fairy tale books that I have had since I was in grade school. I still read them sometimes, and I enjoy them - but my favorites were the ones that the woman was the hero (my absolute favorite is similar to Disney's Mulan - daughter steals father's armor to serve in his place because there are no sons in the family - only at the end, the woman is changed into a man by a "curse" and marries the princess that the King wanted for himself).

(in reply to CalliopePurple)

RE: Fairy tales linked to violent relationships - 4/22/2005 3:20:02 PM

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As a child, I disliked fairytales - as an adult, they make me cringe!

I was more a fable person myself, and as I got older, parables.
Fairytales to me were always so irrational.
Princes? Knights? Dwalves? Give me a talking hare and tortoise anyday!

Peace and Love

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RE: Fairy tales linked to violent relationships - 4/22/2005 11:02:55 PM

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I read about this in the news too. But, honestly, when subs have told me that certain stories made a great impression on them as children, they usually haven't mentioned Cinderella. It's been more on the order of pirates who kidnap and tie up terrified women.

I remember a movie I saw as a very young child involving a card shark who wagered with a woman (it took place sometime in the 18th or 19th century); whoever had the better hand would have the right to whip the other person. He won, of course, and he tied her hands, stripped off her blouse, and whipped her back. I don't think I'll ever forget that.

Edited to add: I noticed also that the researcher was talking about "submissive" women in an interview. She didn't mean what we mean by "submissive." She meant women who allow men to abuse them because they feel they are supposed to accept it. Important difference.

Lam

< Message edited by Lordandmaster -- 4/22/2005 11:04:35 PM >

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RE: Fairy tales linked to violent relationships - 4/22/2005 11:30:20 PM

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The researcher was probably using "submissive" in the way most people think of it as. Not true for those of us in this lifestyle, but oh well. I still thought it was an interesting article and fun food for thought.

*Disguises herself as a knight, goes looking for fairy tale princesses to rescue.*

CP

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Kimi ni aitakute dare yori mo aitakute
hajimete kimi ni atta hoshizora no shita de.
Kimi ni tsutaetai todokanai omoi demo
boku no kokoro wa mada kimi o sagashiteiru.

Gackt - Kimi ni Aitakute

(in reply to Lordandmaster)

RE: Fairy tales linked to violent relationships - 4/23/2005 10:23:57 AM

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Certainly this criticism of traditional fairy tales and how women have been portrayed is an old staple of feminist theory.

I don't know enough about the study and its methods. A problem I see with it is that it is 'after the fact' analysis. She interviewed domestic violence victims and is trying to explain why they were abused. But a large number of women also read those same fairy tales and were not victimized.... and her methods can not explain that. For that reason her claim that fairy tales cause women to stay in destructive relationships really is unfounded.

I think its an interesting question to look at. But a better study would look at the outcomes of all women who were exposed to these fairy tales and explain those differences.

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RE: Fairy tales linked to violent relationships - 4/23/2005 11:55:18 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: onceburned

I think its an interesting question to look at. But a better study would look at the outcomes of all women who were exposed to these fairy tales and explain those differences.

Now that is what I want to see.

(in reply to onceburned)

RE: Fairy tales linked to violent relationships - 4/23/2005 12:39:33 PM

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I always saw Cinderella as inspirational. She is the classic rags to riches story, that's every poor girls dream

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RE: Fairy tales linked to violent relationships - 4/23/2005 4:01:33 PM

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quote:

I read fairy tales, still do actually. But I always identify more with the prince or the one doing the saving than the poor dumb girl that just puts up with miserable life.

In her 1999 film "Sleeping Beauties", indie lesbian film director Jamie Babbit deconstructs the well known fairy tale.

IMDB blurb: "A woman tells the story of sleeping beauty to her child. However this version is based on how the woman met her lesbian partner (and co-mother). The woman (Heather) tells of how she met her partner (Clea) despite longing after the woman she thought was her sleeping princess."

I looked for the line in the film (which I saw in 1999) online but could not find it. Essentially, the child asks the mother didn't a prince awake sleeping beauty (refering to the popular version) and the mother responds that this was rape. But it is done in such a dry, funny, sarcastic way... anyhow, you have to see it to understand.

Probably an easier way to access Jamie Babbit brilliance is through her more popular film "But I'm a Cheerleader".

- LA

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RE: Fairy tales linked to violent relationships - 4/27/2005 9:19:57 AM

ruffnecksbabygir

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My best friend and i have actually talked about this before, we both have small kids and have re discovered all these fairtytales which we read as children....my goodness, most of them are sooo f*&^%ed up! lol snow white living with 7 dwarves, jack & the bean stalk, how messed up is that one he actually gets away with stealing from the giant, the piper takes all the kids over a cliff away from their parents just cause the mayor/gov'ner wouldn't pay him, rumplstilksin where the girl practically sells her 1st born, i can't really think of them now but we went through them one night (yeah we have too much time on our hands, sometimes) and we were cracking up

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RE: Fairy tales linked to violent relationships - 5/17/2005 9:11:17 PM

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Has anyone here read the Sleeping Beauty trilogy by Anne Rice?

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0452152984/102-8025659-3969721?v=glance

Sleeping Beauty becomes the Prince's sex slave, complete with sex, ponygirl training, and beatings : )

(in reply to ruffnecksbabygir)

RE: Fairy tales linked to violent relationships - 5/18/2005 9:00:07 AM

MissA

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The same inuendos are in nursery rhymes -
*Ring-around-the-rosie is about the black plague for goodness sakes, lol
*Mary Mary Quite Contrary is about Mary Queen of Scotts who I believe was on trial for something at the time...
*London Bridge is falling down?? A rhyme about destruction?

Most of them were developed to surreptitiously make fun of popular leaders and political figures, it's odd the way they were picked up for children.

~Ms. A~

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RE: Fairy tales linked to violent relationships - 5/22/2005 2:56:53 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lepidoptera

Has anyone here read the Sleeping Beauty trilogy by Anne Rice?

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0452152984/102-8025659-3969721?v=glance

Sleeping Beauty becomes the Prince's sex slave, complete with sex, ponygirl training, and beatings : )

G-D Bless Anne Rice for her brilliance in the psyche of a slave and the psyche of a brat! It was her books that led me to this incredible version of my "happily ever after"...Fairytales do come true....lol.....now if i could just find that village!

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RE: Fairy tales linked to violent relationships - 5/22/2005 11:38:27 PM

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And I always wanted to be the Queen!!

- LA

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RE: Fairy tales linked to violent relationships - 5/23/2005 6:17:01 PM

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I've always wanted to be king...but let's not get started on me and gender issues. I'll go into that some other day, on some other thread.

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Kimi ni aitakute dare yori mo aitakute
hajimete kimi ni atta hoshizora no shita de.
Kimi ni tsutaetai todokanai omoi demo
boku no kokoro wa mada kimi o sagashiteiru.

Gackt - Kimi ni Aitakute

(in reply to LadyAngelika)

RE: Fairy tales linked to violent relationships - 5/24/2005 4:10:40 AM

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Fantastic! I look forward to the genderfucking thread! Let me know when it's up.

- LA

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Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

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RE: Fairy tales linked to violent relationships - 5/24/2005 3:53:51 PM

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Here you go. Kinda looking forward to the responses this will get.

Gender

< Message edited by CalliopePurple -- 5/24/2005 3:56:28 PM >

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Kimi ni aitakute dare yori mo aitakute
hajimete kimi ni atta hoshizora no shita de.
Kimi ni tsutaetai todokanai omoi demo
boku no kokoro wa mada kimi o sagashiteiru.

Gackt - Kimi ni Aitakute

(in reply to LadyAngelika)

RE: Fairy tales linked to violent relationships - 5/25/2005 7:50:17 AM

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I've read some of the original fairy tails, and they are rather disturbing and often bloody. Cinderella is horribly abused, and her step sisters cut off their toes and heels to make the glass slipper fit. If someone disappears, there is often a nasty description of her death. They were never meant for children, or older children to teach them a lesson. Disney took them and toned them down, and made them kid friendly, not a bad thing, but if you ever get a hold of Grimm's fairy tales as they were orignally written, you will never read them to your kids

myrrha{C}

(in reply to CalliopePurple)

RE: Fairy tales linked to violent relationships - 5/25/2005 4:29:27 PM

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I've found a copy of them as they were originally wrote. Sadly, I would have enjoyed them just as much when I was seven as when I was seventeen (the age I was when I found the less child friendly versions.) Then again, I was just a sick, twisted little kid who was reading Stephen King by the time I was eight.

_____________________________

Kimi ni aitakute dare yori mo aitakute
hajimete kimi ni atta hoshizora no shita de.
Kimi ni tsutaetai todokanai omoi demo
boku no kokoro wa mada kimi o sagashiteiru.

Gackt - Kimi ni Aitakute

(in reply to myrrha)

RE: Fairy tales linked to violent relationships - 10/4/2005 4:50:11 PM

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A lot of original fairy tales are pretty nasty. I think Sleeping Beauty had the prince shagging the comatose pricess, who then becomes pregnant, gives birth, and is eventually woken up by the bawling of her newborn kid. Not quite as romantic as being woken by a kiss, hey?

Most of the stories about a lad seeking his fortune are a bit dodgy, and involve Jack or whoever going on a journey where he lies, steals, cheats, outwits dim individuals for their life savings or wins competitions fraudulently. Sometimes he wins the hand of a fair princess by assassinating someone or something or stealing something very valuable to order for the king.
Sometimes he wins the fair maiden by killing her rich family, so he gets the girl and the property. Happy ending.

Fairy tales seem to be a bit tough if you are a giant. :(

(in reply to CalliopePurple)

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