RE: "Rules should have barred weapon purchase"

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RE: "Rules should have barred weapon purchase" - 4/20/2007 8:23:52 AM

xBullx

Posts: 4206
Joined: 10/8/2005
Status: offline

Hello Ellen,

I agree with you on who do we view as dangerous. The sad part is we can't get them all. Some are those natural born killers and they will be cunning enough to slip through the cracks, but this latest super killer was anything but cunning. The list of red flags keeps growing.

I suspect it will take someone more accomplished than I at determining how best to profile the prospective serial murderer. I do not have a great problem with profiling myself, if it needs a judges approval to profiel or whatever, I do believe that the unstable, or criminal mind is often bold and daring enough that it expaoses itself, and in the case of this fellow at VT, I don't know what they should have done, I'm out of my element even attempting to figure it out, I'm just a concerned citizen wanting to know where we go next. You can't believe just leaving well enough alone is the answer to go forward with.

In concluson if you are no danger I doubt you would mind them looking for those that are. Or we can all carry our weapons again in a state of reactive thinking towards criminals, shoot them before they can you....That's not all that promising either. I'm rather competent and capable with a weapon, i suppose if that is the solution, I'm at least prepared. (obviously the last statement denotes sarcasm.)

Live well,'

Bull

_____________________________

Live well,

Bull

I'm not an asshole; I'm simply resolute...

"A Republic, If You Can Keep It."

Caution: My humor is a bit skewed.

(in reply to LadyEllen)

Post #: 21

RE: "Rules should have barred weapon purchase" - 4/20/2007 8:35:53 AM

Rule

Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: xBullx
So far as I see it

You are true to type. That is good in a way, but it does necessitate that you acquire a minder.

quote:

ORIGINAL: xBullx
but I suppose you have some point.

Verily, I do.

quote:

ORIGINAL: xBullx
If Timmy is having a beer he is sharing a table with Elvis

That is impossible. Elvis is dead.

< Message edited by Rule -- 4/20/2007 8:36:49 AM >

(in reply to xBullx)

Post #: 22

RE: "Rules should have barred weapon purchase" - 4/20/2007 8:57:12 AM

xBullx

Posts: 4206
Joined: 10/8/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

If Timmy is having a beer he is sharing a table with Elvis

That is impossible. Elvis is dead.

As is Timothy......On June 11, 2OO1........... Tim sit down with Elvis and popped a top.........convicted Oklahoma City bomber Timothy McVeigh was put to death by lethal injectionon at 7:14 a.m. (8:14 EDT) onday, June 11. McVeigh, who admitted setting the bomb that killed 168 people in the Oklahoma City federal building, called off further legal efforts in early June to delay the execution. He is the first first federal prisoner to be executed in 38 years.

I may being missing something, perhaps CNN got it wrong.....

Bull

< Message edited by xBullx -- 4/20/2007 8:58:43 AM >

(in reply to Rule)

Post #: 23

RE: "Rules should have barred weapon purchase" - 4/20/2007 9:13:35 AM

Rule

Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline

Show me the corpse.

(in reply to xBullx)

Post #: 24

RE: "Rules should have barred weapon purchase" - 4/20/2007 9:52:16 AM

popeye1250

Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

So could I but there is a big difference in the mind set between Western Europe and the US which plays an important part in gun culture. In the US guns are an iconic part of macho culture and ownership of a gun appears to be in some sections of American society (according to posts on here), aspirational. Here in Europe you are less than zero if you possess a gun for any purpose other than hunting and as far as I'm aware there is no worthwhile hunting in urban areas. The status of the gun in society plays an important part of the overall psychology when it comes to the use of guns. Young blacks males having a particular pronblem with the import from America of gangsta culture.

Absolutely.

There is no real reason or argument for me to have a gun.

Trouble is, I've yet to hear one good reason or argument for me not to have a gun, should I want one.

E

LadyEllen, how do you "Subjects" over there go about having the laws changed?
Do you get petitions together?
In this day and age anyone who qualifies under the law for gun ownership should be able to get one.
I was watching the film of VT and you could hear the gunfire inside the building and the camera panned to two cops taking cover behind a tree *outside* the building!
If there's a fire in a building Firefighters go right in!
What good were the cops doing hiding behind a tree when they could hear shots inside that building?
This just goes to show that everyone needs to be responsable for *their own protection.* The Police can't help you!
They rarely get the chance to "prevent" crimes only to document them for the prosecution after the fact.
That's why I just can't see the Police racing at 70 mph to the scene of a bank robbery and endangering the public by driving so fast.
For what? Some big corporation's money?
Ninety nine % of the time by the time the Police get to a bank robbery scene the culprits are long gone!
And all these "No Guns" laws very obviously do not work.
If something doesn't work why would a rational person want to do the same thing over and over again?
1."No guns." (didn't work)
2."No Guns." (didn't work again)
3."No Guns!" (still isn't working.)
4."NO GUNS!" (is everyone deaf?)
5. "NO FUCKING GUNS!" (now they're pissed at us for swearing)
6. "No Guns.....please?" (oops, 2nd amendment lawsuit)
7. "No guns." (it was explained to us by the Police that 50% of bad guys can't read and the other 50% just don't "care" about any laws.)
8. "We've scrapped our "No guns" campaign but we'll come up with something else that doesn't work because it will make people "feel" better!
The anti-gun people just keep doing it again and again and again.
And that's what it is, "feel good" legislation.
I don't understand why rational people expect irrational people to act rationally just because they make a rule and when they don't time and again, the rational people just can't figure it out and want to make more rules that the irrational people won't follow either!
I mean do they expect a different result or something?
And should people like that really be educating our children?
Intelligence is good but common sense wins out everytime.

(in reply to LadyEllen)

Post #: 25

RE: "Rules should have barred weapon purchase" - 4/20/2007 10:58:53 AM

cyberdude611

Posts: 2596
Joined: 5/7/2006
Status: offline

They had a lawyer discuss the law on this issue. And he said one word in the judges ruling made the difference....

The judge wrote in his decision that Cho represents an "imminent danger to HIMSELF." Had the judge wrote an "imminent danger to OTHERS." Then he would have been barred from purchasing the weapon.

(in reply to popeye1250)

Post #: 26

RE: "Rules should have barred weapon purchase" - 4/20/2007 12:28:13 PM

xBullx

Posts: 4206
Joined: 10/8/2005
Status: offline

We can exchange the bodies of Timothy and Elvis, meet me at the Wendy's resturant on Rodea Drive at 2:30 am on friday April 32, 2007..... In other words, you started this fantasy stuff, you show the body of Elvis, then I'll look into the other.

Bull

_____________________________

Live well,

Bull

I'm not an asshole; I'm simply resolute...

"A Republic, If You Can Keep It."

Caution: My humor is a bit skewed.

(in reply to Rule)

Post #: 27

RE: "Rules should have barred weapon purchase" - 4/20/2007 12:52:00 PM

LadyEllen

Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline

Hi Popeye

How do we get laws changed / enacted / stricken?

We dont.

We vote for a party which then follows its manifesto - which few can be bothered to read even if they know what a manifesto is and how to get a copy.

We can create petitions, we can have a million demonstrators on the street, we can write to our member of parliament etc etc. In the end though, this is representative democracy, not true democracy, so our representatives do as they feel is right, regardless of popular views - unless its election time when they will make a show of listening and then once elected, ignore us for the next five years again.

The only realistic way to influence things is to have the media behind it. Though of course they pick and choose their causes according to their own political aims (aside from the BBC and public service broadcasters who arent allowed to), and even they dont always get their way - viz the rejection of a UK Megan's Law, which was campaigned for by the newspapers.

The commercial media meanwhile are also always concious of supporting issues which will sell their news, rather than support the public good - in this theyre active influences on popular opinion but also perhaps more so reactive to popular opinion. In the case of guns, naturally there was outrage here when it emerged how two psychotics managed to get guns and go on the rampage - the papers in particular reacted to this and then helped in moulding opinion towards a ban, despite any evidence that sane, law abiding gun owners holding permits posed no danger to anyone. Someone had to pay - something had to be done; trouble is they identified the wrong someone and the wrong something.

E

_____________________________

In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

(in reply to popeye1250)

Post #: 28

RE: "Rules should have barred weapon purchase" - 4/20/2007 1:25:59 PM

Pulpsmack

Posts: 394
Joined: 4/15/2004
From: Louisiana
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

The chances of being killed by a terrorist are less than winning the national lottery and I bet that is similar in the US. The chance of winning the national lottery is 14,000,000:1. Though the chance of being murdered is somewhat less at 1,000,000:1 but if you aren't a testoserone soaked young male the chance is somewhat less. If you are a young testosterone soaked male, your chances somewhat higher. There are a lot of other things that really should take precidence over this paranoia.

Giving your numbers complete credit, your analysis fails miserably

All you consider are acts of terrorism and successful, documented murders, which I agree are statistically small in number.

Now go ahead and add the following:

Armed robbery
Aggrevated assault
Rape
Kidnapping

All of these instances are grounds for deadly force in every state that I am aware of. Nevertheless, these numbers are only the ones that have been completed and successfully documented. AND what are the numbers when you factor in all the reported and unreported attempts? Two times those numbers... five times... ten times?

Then there are those crimes that by themselves are benign, but when viewed in the proper context are applicable.

For example, Burglary. VIRTUALLY all states give no authorization for the use of deadly force for the defense of property, so we would quickly dismiss burglary numbers as a viable statistic for the support of one's need for a firearm. But this analysis is truly myopic. We typically envision a scenario where a burglar skulks in when the dwellers are at the movies, and often this is the case. But what happens if/when the burglar stumbles into a house that he erroniously thought was vacant? He may run out of the home, or he may immediately become aggressive, thus bringing firearm defense into the picture.

Therefore, if you take ALL violent crime AND crime with potential to escalate AND attempts thereof, those numbers become exponentially higher than the lottery, and your paranoia bashing-campaign errodes.

< Message edited by Pulpsmack -- 4/20/2007 1:54:49 PM >

(in reply to meatcleaver)

Post #: 29

RE: "Rules should have barred weapon purchase" - 4/20/2007 1:47:34 PM

Vendaval

Posts: 10297
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline

Greetings Bull,

I am passing along information to the boards as it becomes available in the news.
Do you have more information from the Criminal Pathologist?
That is very pertinent to the discussion, thank you for sharing it.

Blessed Be,

Vendaval

quote:

ORIGINAL: xBullx

Hello Vendaval,

Timothy McVeigh didn't use a gun.......

If their unstable and have a wish to inflict harm they will.......

I was listening to a Criminal Patholygists that said this is actually a communication failure between mental health and law enforcement folks. This report made excellent sense. He said the ACLU needs to consider the civil liberties of the dead at a place like Va Tech when they fight to preserve the rights of a mad man. Doctors often have suspicions of a man being like this and do to liberties and doctor patient codes they allow these men to walk our politically correct streets. These men are allowed more right to life in the US system then the victums they conspire against.

I'm not for more laws, I'm for being able to enforce those we have and finding a way to better identify these troubled souls before they snap. We waste time studying less important things, why not put more effort into this. Rules don't stop senseless death; education, awareness and a proactive stance are the best hope to quell this needless loss of life. If you turn your back and say, ohhh, this won't happen to me you will in time join the national statistics lists.

Live well,

Bull

edited for hopefully correct spelling of the name

_____________________________

"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
"WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE

http://KinkMeet.co.uk

(in reply to xBullx)

Post #: 30

RE: "Rules should have barred weapon purchase" - 4/20/2007 2:40:17 PM

Rule

Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: xBullx
We can exchange the bodies of Timothy and Elvis, meet me at the Wendy's resturant on Rodea Drive at 2:30 am on friday April 32, 2007..... In other words, you started this fantasy stuff, you show the body of Elvis, then I'll look into the other.

Now you want me to change reality in order to meet? Usually this is only done when Creation is threatened. Timothy is a minor matter. However, I would like you to meet the slurper that dwells beneath his bridge. Go to Oklahoma or invite him to Iowa.

(in reply to xBullx)

Post #: 31

RE: "Rules should have barred weapon purchase" - 4/20/2007 2:46:06 PM

Vendaval

Posts: 10297
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline

Rule,

Loki/Wulfchyle/FuckinTroll is a personal friend to me in real life
and on these boards. Please do not compare him to the likes
of McVeigh.

Thank you,

Vendaval

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule
Now you want me to change reality in order to meet? Usually this is only done when Creation is threatened. Timothy is a minor matter. However, I would like you to meet the slurper that dwells beneath his bridge. Go to Oklahoma or invite him to Iowa.

_____________________________

"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
"WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE

http://KinkMeet.co.uk

(in reply to Rule)

Post #: 32

RE: "Rules should have barred weapon purchase" - 4/20/2007 4:15:03 PM

Rule

Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline

You misunderstood me, V.

(in reply to Vendaval)

Post #: 33

RE: "Rules should have barred weapon purchase" - 4/21/2007 2:29:28 AM

Vendaval

Posts: 10297
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline

Rule, if that is the case, my apologies.
All of the death and destruction this week
is making me more serious than usual.

_____________________________

"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
"WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE

http://KinkMeet.co.uk

(in reply to Rule)

Post #: 34

RE: "Rules should have barred weapon purchase" - 4/21/2007 2:46:36 AM

Rule

Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline

Accepted. Bull and the slurper are my friends as well.

(in reply to Vendaval)

Post #: 35

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