RE: Armed resistance, Guns in school?

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missturbation -> RE: Armed resistance, Guns in school? (4/27/2007 6:08:26 PM)
if the government bans firearms it is NOT going to keep criminals from getting them it will NOT make violent crime go down in anyway. Can you prove that? My opinion is that it will and nope i cant prove it thats why i said it is my opinion and did not make a statement like you have done. Making guns illegal will do nothing but make law abiding citizens at more risk!! Opinion or fact because i would again ask you to prove it? It is entirely your choice to have a gun, but your argument of facts i think you will struggle to back up does not change my opinion whatsoever.

stef -> RE: Armed resistance, Guns in school? (4/27/2007 6:26:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: missturbation quote: if the government bans firearms it is NOT going to keep criminals from getting them it will NOT make violent crime go down in anyway. Can you prove that? Your own Home Office proves it when they release the crime statistics every year. Feel free to look at the figures I posted the last time you wandered into a discussion of this nature. quote: My opinion is that it will and nope i cant prove it thats why i said it is my opinion and did not make a statement like you have done. Your opinion is not backed up by the facts, his statement is. ~stef

popeye1250 -> RE: Armed resistance, Guns in school? (4/27/2007 6:44:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: iwannapullurhair If you have a gun, at least you have a chance to defend yourself. You may still get killed under certain circumstances, but it is a long wait for the police when someone is trying to kill you. Even if you have your own personnal police officer dedicated just to you, he is going to take a while just to get to your house. If the cops are busy, you are really up the creek. Also, a gun is a great equalizer. A 90 pound woman can stop the biggest man there is. If you are weak or old or in a wheelchair, why should you be killed by the stronger just like in the middle ages? The celebrities and politicians that are for gun control want to disarm all the little people while the hippocrites are protected by gun toting body guards. Exactly, they're "The Beautiful People". They "count" we don't. I figure if someone owns a Mercedes Benz or a $600,000 house they own a gun. Or maybe more than one.

Casie -> RE: Armed resistance, Guns in school? (4/27/2007 6:48:03 PM)
Can you prove that? My opinion is that it will and nope I cant prove it that’s why I said it is my opinion and did not make a statement like you have done. The prove is simple, There are guns in the US that are illegal, and they are bought and sold on the streets everyday, making them illegal will not change that. I cannot site number of how many are sold every year since they are ILLEGAL, and if all firearms were made illegal that wouldn't change there would still be people selling them on the streets and probably making a much higher profit from it. The whole supply and demand thing. The other prove is It is illegal to own firearms in the uk yet they have a higher violent crime rate than the USA. DC is one of the most violent cities in the US and firearms are illegal there. So, obviously it didn't do anything to make violent crime end or even slow down. There are barbaric people in the world and they will kill someone by any means. Making guns illegal will do nothing but make law abiding citizens at more risk!! Opinion or fact because I would again ask you to prove it? So, if CRIMINALS are still carrying firearms, (we have already established in the paragraph before this that people get their hands on illegal firearms everyday, and I don't see criminals stopping selling guns because the law tells them not sorry but that just good old common sense.) Law abiding citizens would be more at risk because they would not have a adequate way to protect themselves. It's all a matter of common sense. It is logical.

Casie -> RE: Armed resistance, Guns in school? (4/27/2007 7:01:24 PM)
quote: if the government bans firearms it is NOT going to keep criminals from getting them it will NOT Your opinion is not backed up by the facts, his statement is. ~stef her statement is lol

stef -> RE: Armed resistance, Guns in school? (4/27/2007 7:46:32 PM)
D'oh! Sorry about that! ~stef

Casie -> RE: Armed resistance, Guns in school? (4/27/2007 8:05:58 PM)
haha tis a ok!

missturbation -> RE: Armed resistance, Guns in school? (4/28/2007 5:55:52 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: stef quote: ORIGINAL: missturbation quote: if the government bans firearms it is NOT going to keep criminals from getting them it will NOT make violent crime go down in anyway. Can you prove that? Your own Home Office proves it when they release the crime statistics every year. Feel free to look at the figures I posted the last time you wandered into a discussion of this nature. quote: My opinion is that it will and nope i cant prove it thats why i said it is my opinion and did not make a statement like you have done. Your opinion is not backed up by the facts, his statement is. ~stef My home office proves nothing. People have licences for guns over here too. I'm talking a total ban. His / her opinion has no factual based evidence what so ever. There would be far less guns out there if the public was banned from carrying them. I'm not saying by banning them we would get rid of them altogether but i do feel the mentality of they have guns so i better have one too is just heading for even more trouble that there is now. If nothing else a total ban would prevent those irresponsible licenced gun holders out there 'accidently' shooting people. And please don't tell me that doesnt happen because it does, even the most repsonsible people have accidents.

missturbation -> RE: Armed resistance, Guns in school? (4/28/2007 6:13:35 AM)
In the U.S. for 2001, there were 29,573 deaths from firearms, distributed as follows by mode of death: Suicide 16,869; Homicide 11,348; Accident 802; Legal Intervention 323; Undetermined 231.(CDC, 2004) http://library.med.utah.edu/WebPath/TUTORIAL/GUNS/GUNSTAT.html What are the statistics about kids and firearm deaths and injuries? The 2002 edition of Injury Facts from the National Safety Council reports the following statistics [1] : In 1999, 3,385 kids ages 0-19 years were killed with a gun. This includes homicides, suicides, and unintentional injuries. This is equivalent to about 9 deaths per day, a figure commonly used by journalists. The 3,385 firearms-related deaths for age group 0-19 years breaks down to: 214 unintentional 1,078 suicides 1,990 homicides 83 for which the intent could not be determined 20 due to legal intervention Of the total firearms-related deaths: 73 were of children under five years old 416 were children 5-14 years old 2,896 were 15-19 years old http://www.med.umich.edu/1libr/yourchild/guns.htm Theres just a couple of sites with statistics for you on all kinds of shootings. As you can see in 2001 alone there were 802 fatal accidental shootings. Only 323 of those shootings was due to legal intervention. 11,348 homicides and you still want to tell me guns are a good idea? The second site concentrates only on children 0 - 19. 214 accidental shootings and 1,190 murders. Again only 20 were due to legal intervention. 489 of those children were under 14. You can say my solution is not the solution, thats fine. But it also appears that being allowed to carry guns as a member of the public really isn't working either. To go back to what someone else said about if the woman had had a gun there may have been no loss of life i can only say in those two years i have statistics for if the public had not been allowed guns 1016 lives could have been saved and that is accidental shootings alone.

Real0ne -> RE: Armed resistance, Guns in school? (4/28/2007 6:43:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: missturbation quote: ORIGINAL: Sicarius quote: ORIGINAL: missturbation The students shouldnt have been able to get their hands on guns in the first place. In this case the shooters stood down, but there was just as big a chance they may not have done. Not everything is as clear cut. And if those student gun owners had been anything like myself, they would not have hesitated to shoot him dead where he stood if he failed to comply with their challenge to surrender and put an end to his senseless violence and bloodshed. -Sicarius That would be your perogative. The point isn't about self defense though its about availabillity of guns that put people in these positions in the first place. i hear gun deaths are on the rise on your side of the world... so how could that possibly be when guns are banned by you? 4. I would certainly use self defence if anyone attacked me or my UM but i would never own a gun under any circumstances. thats not true! you would stand there and get shot to death because without a gun you dont stand a snowballs chance in hell to defend yourself! Its counter intutive to say that you would defend yourself if attacked but not use a gun when attacked with one. you either would defend yourself or not and if you are not willing to use a gun then you really are not willing to defend yourself either... 2,896 were 15-19 years old = drug dealers and gang bangers mostly = good riddance!

farglebargle -> RE: Armed resistance, Guns in school? (4/28/2007 7:06:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: missturbation In the U.S. for 2001, there were 29,573 deaths from firearms, distributed as follows by mode of death: Suicide 16,869; Homicide 11,348; Accident 802; Legal Intervention 323; Undetermined 231.(CDC, 2004) http://library.med.utah.edu/WebPath/TUTORIAL/GUNS/GUNSTAT.html What are the statistics about kids and firearm deaths and injuries? The 2002 edition of Injury Facts from the National Safety Council reports the following statistics [1] : In 1999, 3,385 kids ages 0-19 years were killed with a gun. Well, thinking KIDS are 19 years old is an interesting way to skew the statistics.

missturbation -> RE: Armed resistance, Guns in school? (4/28/2007 9:33:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne quote: ORIGINAL: missturbation quote: ORIGINAL: Sicarius quote: ORIGINAL: missturbation The students shouldnt have been able to get their hands on guns in the first place. In this case the shooters stood down, but there was just as big a chance they may not have done. Not everything is as clear cut. And if those student gun owners had been anything like myself, they would not have hesitated to shoot him dead where he stood if he failed to comply with their challenge to surrender and put an end to his senseless violence and bloodshed. -Sicarius That would be your perogative. The point isn't about self defense though its about availabillity of guns that put people in these positions in the first place. i hear gun deaths are on the rise on your side of the world... so how could that possibly be when guns are banned by you? 4. I would certainly use self defence if anyone attacked me or my UM but i would never own a gun under any circumstances. thats not true! you would stand there and get shot to death because without a gun you dont stand a snowballs chance in hell to defend yourself! Its counter intutive to say that you would defend yourself if attacked but not use a gun when attacked with one. you either would defend yourself or not and if you are not willing to use a gun then you really are not willing to defend yourself either... 2,896 were 15-19 years old = drug dealers and gang bangers mostly = good riddance! Guns are not banned totally over here at all. We have licenced gun holders. As for defending myself no i would not defend myself with a gun. Good riddance? How do you know who they were? How about the accidental deaths that are caused by guns, you make no mention of that. Im surprised at you only seeing what you want to. Sorry no i'm not thats what you do best.

missturbation -> RE: Armed resistance, Guns in school? (4/28/2007 9:35:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle quote: ORIGINAL: missturbation In the U.S. for 2001, there were 29,573 deaths from firearms, distributed as follows by mode of death: Suicide 16,869; Homicide 11,348; Accident 802; Legal Intervention 323; Undetermined 231.(CDC, 2004) http://library.med.utah.edu/WebPath/TUTORIAL/GUNS/GUNSTAT.html What are the statistics about kids and firearm deaths and injuries? The 2002 edition of Injury Facts from the National Safety Council reports the following statistics [1] : In 1999, 3,385 kids ages 0-19 years were killed with a gun. Well, thinking KIDS are 19 years old is an interesting way to skew the statistics. Really? Over here the age of adulthood is 18 and for some things 21.

stef -> RE: Armed resistance, Guns in school? (4/28/2007 10:15:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: missturbation My home office proves nothing. It proves that even with the 1997 handgun ban the number of violent crimes in England is still increasing. Do you question the accuracy of their figures or is there some completely unrelated reason why you disagree? quote: People have licences for guns over here too. I'm talking a total ban. Why do you believe that a "total ban" would magically keep criminals from getting guns? Do you honestly think they would decide to follow that particular law and turn theirs in? Do you think that people would stop smuggling them into the country? Are you really that naive? quote: His / her opinion has no factual based evidence what so ever. There would be far less guns out there if the public was banned from carrying them. That's not the issue. No one is disagreeing that there would be fewer guns "out there" if they were banned. What was in dispute was that it would keep criminals from getting them and that it would make violent crime go down. ~stef

missturbation -> RE: Armed resistance, Guns in school? (4/28/2007 10:25:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: stef quote: ORIGINAL: missturbation My home office proves nothing. It proves that even with the 1997 handgun ban the number of violent crimes in England is still increasing. Do you question the accuracy of their figures or is there some completely unrelated reason why you disagree? What figures? I don't see you citing any. But yes i know gun crime is on the rise here and never disputed that it wasn't. quote: People have licences for guns over here too. I'm talking a total ban. Why do you believe that a "total ban" would magically keep criminals from getting guns? Do you honestly think they would decide to follow that particular law and turn theirs in? Do you think that people would stop smuggling them into the country? Are you really that naive? I never said it would stop criminals from entirely having access to guns. It would hopefully stop most of the accidental deaths by guns though. I see you choose to ignore all those who die by accident at the hands of a gun. Did i once say people would stop smuggling them? Did i once say the only solution was to ban them? All i can say is that at least my opinion is not lets all get guns so we can shoot them before they shoot me. quote: His / her opinion has no factual based evidence what so ever. There would be far less guns out there if the public was banned from carrying them. That's not the issue. No one is disagreeing that there would be fewer guns "out there" if they were banned. What was in dispute was that it would keep criminals from getting them and that it would make violent crime go down. Actually my argument is about saving lives and anything that can be done to save lives i am all for. Therefore returning to accidental gun deaths over a 1000 deaths could have been prevented. Are you really that naive that you believe arming everyone will make things better and is the answer? ~stef

Real0ne -> RE: Armed resistance, Guns in school? (4/28/2007 10:52:28 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: missturbation Guns are not banned totally over here at all. We have licenced gun holders. As for defending myself no i would not defend myself with a gun. Good riddance? How do you know who they were? How about the accidental deaths that are caused by guns, you make no mention of that. Im surprised at you only seeing what you want to. Sorry no i'm not thats what you do best. i know because i live here and hear it on the news etc if you wioll not defend yourself with equal or greater force you are dead regardless if you are here or in your bed. Sure there are accidental gun deaths. Are you trying to say that there should not be any? Everything has its cost, much like cars, fires, kidding breaking their neck and on and on... you simply cant hava world if it is all banned playing big brother.

stef -> RE: Armed resistance, Guns in school? (4/28/2007 10:58:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: missturbation I never said it would stop criminals from entirely having access to guns. That's exactly what you said in this post. Allow me to refresh your memory: Casie: "if the government bans firearms it is NOT going to keep criminals from getting them it will NOT make violent crime go down in anyway." You: "Can you prove that? My opinion is that it will and nope i cant prove it thats why i said it is my opinion and did not make a statement like you have done." When you figure out what you really want to say and can abstain from trying to put words in my mouth, let me know. Until then, feel free to play your disengenuous denial games with yourself. ~stef

Real0ne -> RE: Armed resistance, Guns in school? (4/28/2007 10:58:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: stef quote: ORIGINAL: missturbation People have licences for guns over here too. I'm talking a total ban. Why do you believe that a "total ban" would magically keep criminals from getting guns? Do you honestly think they would decide to follow that particular law and turn theirs in? Do you think that people would stop smuggling them into the country? Are you really that naive? ~stef agreed, when we were kids in grade school we used to use marbles, a peice of pipe and a fire cracker. like what does it take to make a crude but serioulsy effective gun? zippo nothing more than a creative mind. that is why bans really do not work.

missturbation -> RE: Armed resistance, Guns in school? (4/28/2007 10:58:38 AM)
I have managed 33 years of self defence without ever owning a gun so i think i'll just go on not owning one thanks. Shooting someone is not the only means of defence and yes i know there are people out there who cannot be stopped from it. Over 1000 accidental gun deaths in the states that could have been prevented. Of course accidents happen but are they really so accidental when they could easily be prevented? How on earth can you compare a car accident, someone breaking their neck with gun accidents. Guns are made to kill, cars are not.

Real0ne -> RE: Armed resistance, Guns in school? (4/28/2007 11:01:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: stef You: "Can you prove that? My opinion is that it will and nope i cant prove it thats why i said it is my opinion and did not make a statement like you have done." i posted the data on that in one of NG's threads where the UK has significantly more "violent crime" than the us. it is a matter of record.

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