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Anxious Sarcasm - 5/2/2005 11:16:19 AM

EmeraldSlave2

Posts: 3645
Joined: 1/1/2004
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Hey guys, I know I rarely start a thread but figured I would go ahead.

Had an interesting experience as a top this weekend. I went to a play party with a male bottom date. We've been seeing eachother in group situations for a few months now, but this was only our second official one on one date. I played with S pretty soon after showing up. Not sure why but I like to get right in there, perhaps its still nerves as a new top, perhaps it's wanting to establish my own energy and not fight with what's already there, perhaps it's that I've revved myself up and want to get going...maybe all of that. But we did, his toy selection was not that great but I made do and flogged him some. He is SUCH a lightweight! But we got through the scene. He's also very new and very not comfy with letting go and likes to talk and make sarcastic comments (more on that later) and I generally just hush him up and keep going at a steady pace. I think he relaxed a bit, but it's going to take some serious gagging and trust work on him to really just let him be a good bottom.

Later I put him in the cage, since he likes bondage and being told where to be put, I thought he would like that. I'd check on him occasionally but was getting tired (lol at only midnight). At one point I go over to him and tickle him some and then he starts asking me to scratch his side for him. I put my hands on his side and he directs me where to scratch, since I wanted him to feel some helpless and being only able to tell me where he wanted scratched. I did that and he looks at me and says "There, that wasn't so hard was it?"

I was kinda stunned. I wasn't upset, I just couldn't believe he'd said THAT to me. I walked away to let him stew and me think it over. I got back and he immediately started apologizing. I walked away from him and started making my goodbyes to people on my own saying we were going. S said he was convinced I was leaving him even though he was the driver (important to note: I had NOT locked the cage, I had left the clasps free to be opened if he felt he really needed to). This was good since I was hoping to get him somewhat twisted up. But I went over and opened the door and told him to get our things and get the car. We left and he was definitely some upset. I told him I wasn't upset but I wanted him to thinka bout a lot of things, what he wanted, what he wanted from me, where he thought that came from, where his head was and just generally what was going on from his perspective.

I made him go home then but kissed him goodnight and then went to bed. We talked and he ended writing a 7 page review of the entire evening and some ideas on why he had said that. I tend to think it was more just a natural nervous reaction to try and stabilize himself and still feel somewhat in control. I certainly wasn't upset but I could see how others would be as well as myself had the circumstances differed.

So, what are other people's perspectives on this? What remedies do you have for overly nervous bottoms who lose their heads a bit?

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RE: Anxious Sarcasm - 5/2/2005 11:38:24 AM

AAkasha

Posts: 4429
Joined: 11/27/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: EmeraldSlave2

Hey guys, I know I rarely start a thread but figured I would go ahead.

Had an interesting experience as a top this weekend. I went to a play party with a male bottom date. We've been seeing eachother in group situations for a few months now, but this was only our second official one on one date. I played with S pretty soon after showing up. Not sure why but I like to get right in there, perhaps its still nerves as a new top, perhaps it's wanting to establish my own energy and not fight with what's already there, perhaps it's that I've revved myself up and want to get going...maybe all of that. But we did, his toy selection was not that great but I made do and flogged him some. He is SUCH a lightweight! But we got through the scene. He's also very new and very not comfy with letting go and likes to talk and make sarcastic comments (more on that later) and I generally just hush him up and keep going at a steady pace. I think he relaxed a bit, but it's going to take some serious gagging and trust work on him to really just let him be a good bottom.

Later I put him in the cage, since he likes bondage and being told where to be put, I thought he would like that. I'd check on him occasionally but was getting tired (lol at only midnight). At one point I go over to him and tickle him some and then he starts asking me to scratch his side for him. I put my hands on his side and he directs me where to scratch, since I wanted him to feel some helpless and being only able to tell me where he wanted scratched. I did that and he looks at me and says "There, that wasn't so hard was it?"

I was kinda stunned. I wasn't upset, I just couldn't believe he'd said THAT to me. I walked away to let him stew and me think it over. I got back and he immediately started apologizing. I walked away from him and started making my goodbyes to people on my own saying we were going. S said he was convinced I was leaving him even though he was the driver (important to note: I had NOT locked the cage, I had left the clasps free to be opened if he felt he really needed to). This was good since I was hoping to get him somewhat twisted up. But I went over and opened the door and told him to get our things and get the car. We left and he was definitely some upset. I told him I wasn't upset but I wanted him to thinka bout a lot of things, what he wanted, what he wanted from me, where he thought that came from, where his head was and just generally what was going on from his perspective.

I made him go home then but kissed him goodnight and then went to bed. We talked and he ended writing a 7 page review of the entire evening and some ideas on why he had said that. I tend to think it was more just a natural nervous reaction to try and stabilize himself and still feel somewhat in control. I certainly wasn't upset but I could see how others would be as well as myself had the circumstances differed.

So, what are other people's perspectives on this? What remedies do you have for overly nervous bottoms who lose their heads a bit?

It's hard to speculate without having a little more information. Was he sarcastic like that consistently? As in -- 9/10 comments? When he made the first sarcastic comment, was he warned directly, "I don't like that kind of attitude." ?

Most importantly, can you tell if it was a sincere accident/nervousness (in this case, I would expect he'd be able to control himself after a warning and not let it keep on going), or is he trying to be a "bratty bottom" or thinks he's pushing buttons and being a smartass -- ie, thinks he's being clever or funny?

I always try to find out the motivation for the behavior, and let him know I don't like it. Then there are two avenues after that -- if I find out he is doing it just because he thinks its amusing or is trying to "earn a punishment" or is doing it for attention, I end the play. I have no interest in being someone's toy, and I don't allow myself to be manipulated.

If he is nervous and can't help himself, I figure out if something is happening too fast or if he even knows what he's getting himself into. Some men honesetly don't find out until they've played a few times that they really DON'T like it. They have a huge fantasy and then in reality when they find out it hurts, or is frightening, or isn't "sexy" enough (if it's a non sexual relationship) they get bent out of shape and react inapprpropriately.

If you are certain it is just nervousness and anxiety, address those issues and see if the attitude continues. If it continues even if he knows it bothers you, there's possibly just a lack of chemistry.

Just my two cents!

Akasha

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RE: Anxious Sarcasm - 5/2/2005 5:26:57 PM

SecretDomme

Posts: 152
Joined: 1/21/2004
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Do you define the terms "bottom" and "submissive" differently? Are you seeking a D/s relationship or just one where you are the one providing the sensations and experiences without a power exchange? I always see those terms defined in different ways, and perhaps he has a different idea about what to get out the experience than you do.

Take care,
Julie

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RE: Anxious Sarcasm - 5/3/2005 6:04:42 AM

EmeraldSlave2

Posts: 3645
Joined: 1/1/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha
It's hard to speculate without having a little more information. Was he sarcastic like that consistently? As in -- 9/10 comments? When he made the first sarcastic comment, was he warned directly, "I don't like that kind of attitude." ?

I actually DO like sarcasm and wittiness, if you can't tell from my own postings. But there's a clear line between "just being cute and observational" and "challenging your position." In fact, as we were going home, the first thing I asked was if HE believed he had crossed the line, and he said yes. I needed to establish that HE understood the difference between the fun we'd had before and what had happened with that one comment.

But to directly answer- yes he's very sarcastic, and I think part of it is his need to try and be entertaining and part of it is to try and cover up his nervousness.

quote:

Most importantly, can you tell if it was a sincere accident/nervousness (in this case, I would expect he'd be able to control himself after a warning and not let it keep on going), or is he trying to be a "bratty bottom" or thinks he's pushing buttons and being a smartass -- ie, thinks he's being clever or funny?

He could obviously understand how and when he had crossed the line, I think it will take time to get him to learn how to be more careful BEFORE he crosses the line again.

quote:

If you are certain it is just nervousness and anxiety, address those issues and see if the attitude continues. If it continues even if he knows it bothers you, there's possibly just a lack of chemistry.
Just my two cents!
Akasha

Good cents, thanks.

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RE: Anxious Sarcasm - 5/3/2005 6:07:54 AM

EmeraldSlave2

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SecretDomme
Do you define the terms "bottom" and "submissive" differently?

Yes, very differently.

quote:

Are you seeking a D/s relationship or just one where you are the one providing the sensations and experiences without a power exchange?

We're just casually dating right now. I'm in no position or desire to be a dominant to anyone at this time.

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RE: Anxious Sarcasm - 5/3/2005 11:17:14 PM

GentleLady

Posts: 356
Joined: 2/1/2005
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quote:

So, what are other people's perspectives on this? What remedies do you have for overly nervous bottoms who lose their heads a bit?

Basically just what has already been said. The submissive already knows he crossed the line and you already had him look at what he did and why. From this point the ball is in his court and he will need to figure out how to prevent it from happening again. He may just need more time getting comfortable with everything.

Gentle Lady

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RE: Anxious Sarcasm - 5/4/2005 12:23:14 AM

MadameDahlia

Posts: 2021
Joined: 8/11/2004
From: SoCal aka Hell
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Nerves or not he needs to watch his mouth if it offends you.

Perhaps you might want to inform him that surrendering can be a bit alarming at first. Maybe you'd like to tell him that you're more than willing to go at a pace that doesn't terrify him. Perhaps you might want to reinforce that you're not going to push him into a place he isn't comfortable with yet.

And when he's pretty sure you aren't going to abuse his trust maybe you'd like to tell him that he needs to think and then speak. Perhaps you might have him wait a full minute or three before saying what's in his head. Have him consider his choice of words as well as whether or not they'd be appropriate or amusing - or if the comment would fall flat as a pancake.

If this is an idea that appeals to you he may not take to it quickly. A light punishment to remind him of your "X number of minutes" rule might help him remember he's supposed to be thinking and then speaking.

It could be writing standards - "I will not speak for a full (number) minutes so that I can reflect on my choice of words."
It could be removal of something he enjoys... perhaps that goodnight kiss, so as to indicate your displeasure.

However if you use a punishment make it known to him that it is your intent. Play is earned. Punishments should be corrective measures.

All this is of course just my take on the situation... Do with it what you will.

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