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Frustrated with Masters second submissive. - 4/30/2007 10:00:08 AM   
Shylahgirl


Posts: 167
Joined: 8/28/2006
Status: offline 		(I apologize for any miss spellings)
Master recently took on a second submissive.

She left a two year long, aubsive, relationship. The the next day she was moving in with us.

And ever sense she moved in I feel like I her babysitter/mommy/middle man/big sister (and she's a year older then me how does that work?).

Her self esteem is closer to the floor then my feet.

She's a nervus reck.

Always thinking she's in truble with Master when she hasn't even seen him yet that day (They both go to work in the mornings). Or I have to hold her had through, what I feel, are the simplest of tasks: such as cooking scrambled eggs. *roles eyes*

She comes to me asking, "Is He mad at me?"

I ask, "Did he say He was mad at you?"

"No... but..."

Then I get anoyed because this is the third time that week that she's asked this and say, "If He's mad at you He will let you know... Trust me on this I been His girl for over a year. I know how He'd react."

Then she gose to Master later that night and says, "Is Shylah mad at me?" and it gose on from there. Master asks me what's going on and I honestly have no clue. It almost seems like she's trying to get attention... but it's hard for me to really say that knowing that it might not be 100% right.

I'm having a very hard time adjusting to this, I feel over whelmed with everything. Master wants me to help train her... she want me to be her thearipist/mommy/Masters mind reader. On top of that I still do all the house work, except the bathroom, I have classes at least twice a week, and I'll be starting a new job here soon.

When she is having a problem with Master or has something she wants him to know she tells me and I end up having to tell Him, I hate being the middle man, especailly when what I relaying doesn't have anything to do with me.

Getting her to leave isn't an option, I know that. 

Me leaving isn't an option, I've put a year of work and love into my relationship with Master and am not willing to throw that away.

I have talked to Master about how I'm feeling and He's told me that it will get better... but there are times where I feel like I'm not being heard when I try to tell him how I feel when I'm put in the babysitter/mommy spot by her.

Am I being overly harsh with her?

Should I give her more time to adjust to her new life? (She's lived with us for a month now)

Can Master really help her after she lived in fear for two years with her ex?

Am I just being difficult?

Shylah


< Message edited by Shylahgirl -- 4/30/2007 10:05:44 AM >

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RE: Frustrated with Masters second submissive. - 4/30/2007 10:16:13 AM   
GrizzlyBear


Posts: 278
Joined: 3/26/2004
From: Missoula Montana
Status: offline 		Her behavior doesn't sound unusual for a survivor of abuse.  I take it you weren't consulted on this arrangement.  Did he take her in because she had something to contribute to the relationship, something he wanted, or did he take her in because he felt sorry for her?

Somehow I don't think you would be having the problems you are having with getting along with her, if you didn't resent her just being there to begin with.  If, as you say, it's a done deal and it's not going to go away, you better find a way to get comfortable with it.


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GrizzlyBear

"Come to the edge," he said.
They said, "We are afraid."
"Come to the edge," he said.
They came. He pushed them. And they flew.
~Guillaume Apollinaire

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RE: Frustrated with Masters second submissive. - 4/30/2007 10:18:47 AM   
Trampler


Posts: 580
Joined: 12/31/2006
Status: offline 		Well I don't think you are being difficult, frankly I felt frustrated with her just by reading your post.  Ok, since I don't know any of you, or the full story, I am going to make a couple of guesses.  I think she isn't ready for this type of commitment, I think she needs to spend some time to herself, get over what happened to her,(preferably with the help of a therapist.)  and heal.  While I do believe that those in our lifestyle that have suffered from abuse can thrive, I think it is only after they have gotten to a better place before entering/continuing the lifestyle. 

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RE: Frustrated with Masters second submissive. - 4/30/2007 10:24:16 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		Does this mean the free loading roommate situation has finally been dealt with?  Or did he add this on top of that?

Has she ever lived on her own before?  Why doesn't she have any household chores?

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RE: Frustrated with Masters second submissive. - 4/30/2007 10:28:20 AM   
honestyplease


Posts: 2
Joined: 4/15/2007
Status: offline 		Totally agree with lucky on that one. . . even though she might have been in an abusive relationship is no reason she cannot help out with the household chores and responisbilities.

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RE: Frustrated with Masters second submissive. - 4/30/2007 10:35:19 AM   
Shylahgirl


Posts: 167
Joined: 8/28/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: GrizzlyBear

Her behavior doesn't sound unusual for a survivor of abuse.  I take it you weren't consulted on this arrangement.  Did he take her in because she had something to contribute to the relationship, something he wanted, or did he take her in because he felt sorry for her?

Somehow I don't think you would be having the problems you are having with getting along with her, if you didn't resent her just being there to begin with.  If, as you say, it's a done deal and it's not going to go away, you better find a way to get comfortable with it.



Master took her because he saw someone that he could help and teach. He thinks that eventually she will be a wonderful submissive, which I agree with... eventually she could be very good if she's willing to work on her self and grow as a person.

He talked to me about it before he took her on... Nether of us knew at the time what we know now about how low her self esteem asctually is.

I'm fine with her being her... I was very excited when she moved in... I resent that she hasn't been seeming to make any emotional progress sense Master started training her and if anything things have slowly been getting more dramatic over the last month.

Shylah


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RE: Frustrated with Masters second submissive. - 4/30/2007 10:39:38 AM   
Shylahgirl


Posts: 167
Joined: 8/28/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: honestyplease

Totally agree with lucky on that one. . . even though she might have been in an abusive relationship is no reason she cannot help out with the household chores and responisbilities.


I said that I do everything except the bathroom... she's incharge of cleaning the bathroom, and will do things like dishes when I ask her to... But for the most part I still clean the majority of the house... That not really even part of the issue... I was just saying that to illastrate how over whelmed I feel.

Shylah



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RE: Frustrated with Masters second submissive. - 4/30/2007 10:43:35 AM   
BBBTBW


Posts: 836
Joined: 5/21/2004
Status: offline 		Regardless of where she is now, she has had to endure 2 years of looking over her shoulder and second guessing herself.  That type of conditioning doesn't go away in a month.  If you and your Master truely want to help her, you need to seek out some family counseling/therapy so they can give you ideas and techniques in how to deal with her insecurity and self esteem issues until she gets better.  Patience and therapy are probably the only things that are going to help her.

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RE: Frustrated with Masters second submissive. - 4/30/2007 10:50:12 AM   
honestyplease


Posts: 2
Joined: 4/15/2007
Status: offline 		sorry I didn't mean to offend you.  It is just cleaning a bathroom, to me that isn't much work, and this is coming from someone with 5 kids, so trust me I know how dirty a bathroom can get, but to me that is about a 20 minute job from ceiling to floors, as well as doing dishes, it can help in the short term, but that doesn't help your mind set any.

< Message edited by honestyplease -- 4/30/2007 10:52:30 AM >

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RE: Frustrated with Masters second submissive. - 4/30/2007 10:59:30 AM   
Shylahgirl


Posts: 167
Joined: 8/28/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: honestyplease

sorry I didn't mean to offend you.  It is just cleaning a bathroom, to me that isn't much work, and this is coming from someone with 5 kids, so trust me I know how dirty a bathroom can get, as well as doing dishes, it can help in the short term, but that doesn't help your mind set any.


I wasnt offended. I guess I just need more clearification on the situation.

Master wants to take his time with her... Having her detail clean the whole hous is probably a little much to start with. He did the same with me at first. Put me incharge of one rooom at a time to see what I would do with it. I know that she is compleatly willing to do whatever I ask around the house.

I just get the feeling that if I say orgnize Master's room (There's clutter every where) or something like that the makes her have to decide what to do with what, I'll end up holding her hand through it saying, ok you can put that here... it's ok if you throw away the junk mail, just put that over here, yes take the dirty dished to the kitchen... and it would be no better then if I just did it. It's probably less effort to do it my self.

I get frustrated quickly when I am forced by a person to seemingly micor manage them so that they don't fuck up... so I just decided that it's better for me to do it instead of getting mad at her.

But like I said house work isn't the issue ;)

Shylah

< Message edited by Shylahgirl -- 4/30/2007 11:01:46 AM >

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RE: Frustrated with Masters second submissive. - 4/30/2007 11:32:06 AM   
Kevin100


Posts: 2
Joined: 2/20/2007
Status: offline 		I think your Master's thinking is logical. As has already been pointed out abusive relationships, especially over time, condition people to act in a certain way.This does not go away just because the conditions have changed. I am sure your Master knows this and is hoping that with time the paranoia and feelings of 'having done something wrong' will go away. I think you are wise to wonder if the girl is simply attention seeking. She may well be 'attention seeking' and it would be easy for you to dismiss her feelings because they are motivated by 'attention seeking'. There is a second level of understanding here... attention seeking itself has been conditioned into her .  It may be that being continually worried and fearful was the only way she got any form of attention at all from her previous, and from what you say abusive master. Counselling should help. If things don't improve, or you can't see improvement, if a few months (improvement not perfection!) you and your master have a decision to make

Kevin


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RE: Frustrated with Masters second submissive. - 4/30/2007 11:39:12 AM   
MrDiscipline44


Posts: 1776
Joined: 1/5/2005
Status: offline 		First off, I agree with BBBTBW, this woman needs to see a therapist, not run to another "Master".

Secondly, she won't learn to do anything if you just keep holding her hand and doing it for her. Who held your hand when you were being trained? If it was your Master then maybe he needs to be holding hers in her training. If she stumbles and falls...good.  It'll teach her to get back up on her own instead of you picking her up.

Quit coddling her. If she's worried about your Master being angry with her then she needs to talk to him. Not you talking for her or for him.

Personally, I think your Master and her played into eachothers complexes. He has a "White Knight" complex in which he has to "save" her from some imagined evil and she has a "Damsel" complex in which she needs to be constantly saved. Don't be surprised if one day she's gone because someone came along and saved her from you/your Master.

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If you love somebody, you have to be willing to break them.

Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach.

Have you slapped your slave today?

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RE: Frustrated with Masters second submissive. - 4/30/2007 11:42:19 AM   
Shylahgirl


Posts: 167
Joined: 8/28/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kevin100

I think your Master's thinking is logical. As has already been pointed out abusive relationships, especially over time, condition people to act in a certain way.This does not go away just because the conditions have changed. I am sure your Master knows this and is hoping that with time the paranoia and feelings of 'having done something wrong' will go away. I think you are wise to wonder if the girl is simply attention seeking. She may well be 'attention seeking' and it would be easy for you to dismiss her feelings because they are motivated by 'attention seeking'. There is a second level of understanding here... attention seeking itself has been conditioned into her .  It may be that being continually worried and fearful was the only way she got any form of attention at all from her previous, and from what you say abusive master. Counselling should help. If things don't improve, or you can't see improvement, if a few months (improvement not perfection!) you and your master have a decision to make

Kevin





Sorry, I just need to correct on thing...

I didn't say that her ex was her master and I didn't intend to give that impression.

He was her boyfriend. He wasn't and is not at this time into anything kink related.

This is her first experince with D/s and kink.

Shylah


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RE: Frustrated with Masters second submissive. - 4/30/2007 11:53:18 AM   
MrDiscipline44


Posts: 1776
Joined: 1/5/2005
Status: offline 		I really have to ask, how are you sure that the last relationship was abusive? Is it only because she said it was or was there any sort of substantial proof?

_____________________________

If you love somebody, you have to be willing to break them.

Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach.

Have you slapped your slave today?

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RE: Frustrated with Masters second submissive. - 4/30/2007 11:59:11 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		The first few times, you SHOULD take her by the hand and do it together.  It's the best way to train her on something like cleaning someone else's space and part of making it into "everyone's space."

She needs to become an active individual mature adult who is as much a part of the relationship as you and your master are- this will take time and effort, and part of that does mean giving her increased responsibilities over time and allowing her to bring her own personality and touches to the living space.

The other issues are the tough ones though- she's insecure and you're a bit resentful.  I say family meeting time to get all these basic emotions out on the table to start with.  The master needs to set the tone such that everyone feels involved and fulfilled without threatening anyone.

Again, presuming the freeloading roommate isn't continuing to add to the issue.

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"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

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RE: Frustrated with Masters second submissive. - 4/30/2007 12:18:56 PM   
Shylahgirl


Posts: 167
Joined: 8/28/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrDiscipline44

I really have to ask, how are you sure that the last relationship was abusive? Is it only because she said it was or was there any sort of substantial proof?


I hate it when people think that someone would make up abuse.

I am personally offended that someone would even ask that.

The police  were called to break up an argument between her and her ex about a week before they broke up.

He ended up busting her nose before the cops got there.

Others have seen the marks on her body after she was thrown into a wall during\ a few of their arguments.

When we went to go get her stuff the ex threatened Master and I with violence. Luckly he didn't touch ether of us or we'd be pressing legel action.

Is that enough substational proof?

Shylah


< Message edited by Shylahgirl -- 4/30/2007 12:24:25 PM >

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RE: Frustrated with Masters second submissive. - 4/30/2007 12:38:27 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shylahgirl
I hate it when people think that someone would make up abuse.

Sad to say but it does happen, certainly for people who get their attention by playing the "victim" card.

So she was living and in an abusive relationship WITH someone else at the time your master was courting her and the break up was essentially you rescuing her and moving her into your house?

No wonder there's so much friction- you guys skipped about three dozen steps and you're going to have to start making them up and might find it doesn't lead you where you thought it would.

 

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"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

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RE: Frustrated with Masters second submissive. - 4/30/2007 1:32:10 PM   
Calandra


Posts: 725
Joined: 11/22/2004
Status: offline 		shylah there are a few coping skills that can help you and your Master:
 
It sounds like this girl's problems have become the family's problems. She has been through a difficult time and you and your Master are to be praised for being there to help the girl. The important thing now is to stop the chaos and establish a few things NOW.
 
Make a list of issues that are causing trouble and also a possible solution. Then ask to speak with your Master privately. Tell Him it is important for you to speak with Him if you are to help the other girl when He is not around to guide you. You have questions that need His attention. 
 
I'll take from your post here and start it: 
 
1.) "girl # 2" is always worrying that someone is angry or has issues with her. she goes to other people in the house to ask about it. While it is good that she is concerned, it makes us each speak for the other person, which is uncomfortable. I propose that in the future, when she asks if someone is upset with her, that we suggest that she go TO THAT PERSON. If we stop speaking for each other and trying to placate her fears, she will realize that her fears are groundless.
 
2.) "girl #2" seems to need reassurance with even small tasks. she either forgets how to do them, or needs help when she shouldn't. I propose that in the future, I will show her how to do something no more than twice. After that, I would like to be allowed to refuse help until she masters that skill on her own. That might mean that she serves You burnt eggs or forgets to iron Your shirt for work. If You would prefer not to be inconvenienced in this way, my only other suggestion is for her to not be given tasks that directly serves You until she proves that she can do other household tasks without supervision. While i am preparing Your eggs, She can wash dishes or sweep the floor, or something else that frees me up to serve You. 
 
A list of issues should not be a list of gripes about all she's doing wrong. It should be a GAME PLAN where you discuss a problem and suggest a solution, so that your Master is not overwhelmed by having two unhappy slaves.
 
You might also include in that list an few things you appreciate about her. If she is a good cook, or if she has a great nose for bargains, or if she has a number of useful skills or hobbies, MENTION THEM and incorporate her strong skills into the household so she feels useful. Have a GAME PLAN - I cannot stress this enough. Possible ideas:
 
1.) Master, girl #2 is wonderful with a sewing machine. Perhaps she can do mending in her spare time or make those curtains for the living room that I've been wanting?
 
2.) Master, girl #2 does a great massage. Perhaps I can assign her to run Your bath and attend You on special evenings? (Caution, this can turn sexual, so don't make this an every night unless you want her to get His sexual attention and you be left without on a number of evenings)
 
Ask your Master what specific areas He wants her trained in... focus on those and you will see whether she really wants to be part of the household or whether your home and family is just a bandaid for her.
 
If you and your Master are working together, HE will see that she isn't working out if she doesn't take full advantage of all you do for her. 

_____________________________

Lady Kathryn
Athens, Ga.
House of Phoenix

"Nothing is ever final until you're dead - and even then I'm sure God negotiates" Anjelica Huston in Everafter

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RE: Frustrated with Masters second submissive. - 4/30/2007 2:05:13 PM   
spanklette


Posts: 882
Joined: 2/22/2005
Status: offline 		Aside from a roundtable discussion...I think she may be in need of some serious therapy. Sometimes people like to view D/s as therapy, but in the long run...I'd cast my vote for someone with a degree and some knowledge of the human psyche.
 
That's not to say that this can't work out, just that maybe you guys should slow your roll and realize that she has more issues than worrying about whether someone is displeased.
 
I don't mean to sound harsh, but I'm sure you all would prefer that she be healthy and sound.

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"The important thing is this: to be able at any moment to sacrifice what we are for what we could become. " Charles du Bois

"Please don't shout, can't you see I'm not listening." Billie Myers

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RE: Frustrated with Masters second submissive. - 4/30/2007 5:25:42 PM   
MrDiscipline44


Posts: 1776
Joined: 1/5/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shylahgirl

I hate it when people think that someone would make up abuse.

And I hate it when people say abuse at the drop of a hat.

quote:

I am personally offended that someone would even ask that.
I really don't give a damn if you were offended, princess. I asked because more often then not, IMO, people want to cry abuse more then they want to admit that they made a stupid mistake and I wanted to clarify

quote:

The police  were called to break up an argument between her and her ex about a week before they broke up.

He ended up busting her nose before the cops got there.

Others have seen the marks on her body after she was thrown into a wall during\ a few of their arguments.
But you and/or your Master weren't witness to anything. I assume she at least had some marks on her when she arrived at your Masters house. A taped nose, perhaps?

quote:

When we went to go get her stuff the ex threatened Master and I with violence. Luckly he didn't touch ether of us or we'd be pressing legel action.
Yes, I'm sure.

quote:

Is that enough substational proof?

Shylah

Actually, all you've proved is that you can't hold an adult conversation without being bitchy.

_____________________________

If you love somebody, you have to be willing to break them.

Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach.

Have you slapped your slave today?

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