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RE: submission and self-esteem - 5/6/2007 9:57:05 AM

jdtallfem

Posts: 180
Joined: 10/8/2006
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I look very hard for subs/slaves with high self esteem. I don't always find them, but that's what I'm always looking for. Why settle for less?

(in reply to ICGsteve)

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RE: submission and self-esteem - 5/6/2007 10:15:48 AM

Mystique567

Posts: 273
Joined: 6/11/2006
Status: offline

I am one of those who are in charge during the day, I don't believe that coming home to my Master (if I had one) should ever feel like I am going to be treated like crap.

But I will admit we get what we ask for.

"You are a child of the universe,
no less than the trees and the stars;
you have a right to be here."

< Message edited by Mystique567 -- 5/6/2007 10:16:55 AM >

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RE: submission and self-esteem - 5/6/2007 11:17:03 AM

NControlofU

Posts: 204
Joined: 11/14/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aristogeiton
There is no denying that at the feet of a dominant is where I feel most at home, where I belong. But if I do feel that that's where I belong, what does that say about my own self-esteem?

What that says to me is that you feel most at home at the feet of your dominant. To me, that is a very positive statement and nothing to feel bad about.

If you're asking this question about being a submissive, yourself, then you need to ask yourself why you are questioning your sense of self-esteem and what it is that's causing you to question it.

If you truly feel good about being at your dominant's feet and your dominant feels good about you being there, then what's the problem? Why should that cause you to question your self-esteem?

If you are feeling a lack of self-respect, even while you feel most at home at your dominant's feet, then there might be other things in your life that are making you feel this way. That's something for you to decide.

If you're asking this as a general question about submissives, and not about yourself, specifically, then my answer is that there is nothing about submissiveness that is, in and of itself, demonstrating a lack of self-respect. My slave has a very healthy self-esteem, even when I use her as my personal urinal. Her self-esteem doesn't come from and isn't effected by any specific thing she does for me or from her being submissive. Her self-esteem comes from a combined sense of knowing who she is, feeling good about who she is, and knowing that she lives her life with certain convictions and a code of honor that she feels good about. Her feelings about herself don't hinge on whether she is at my feet or standing in line at the bank. No matter where she is or what she is doing, she knows who she is and she feels good about herself. She serves me well, not because that gives her a good sense of self-esteem, but because she enjoys serving and is good at serving. She is good at a lot of other things and she does those well, too.

(in reply to Aristogeiton)

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RE: submission and self-esteem - 5/6/2007 12:10:02 PM

addicted2it

Posts: 322
Joined: 5/31/2004
From: California
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quote:

ORIGINAL: jdtallfem

I look very hard for subs/slaves with high self esteem. I don't always find them, but that's what I'm always looking for. Why settle for less?

And you shouldn't have to settle for anything less. I think that we all have to come to terms with who we are. For some, it takes longer than for others. Speaking for myself, it didn't come easily, because acceptance of who and what you are takes time and considerable soul-searching and reflection. Unfortunately for some, they often realize it too late in life.

_____________________________

"What I lack in wisdom and intelligence, I more than make up or with age."

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RE: submission and self-esteem - 5/6/2007 3:04:03 PM

MistressDoMe

Posts: 295
Joined: 7/24/2006
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Well stated MissOchistic, I like your explanation.

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RE: submission and self-esteem - 5/6/2007 4:14:38 PM

switchguy4u

Posts: 22
Joined: 1/22/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin
It would seem that your post implies that you feel that Dominating someone is equal to treating them like crap and submitting equals taking crap. Am I understanding correctly?

Not always the case, but sometimes it is.

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Post #: 46

RE: submission and self-esteem - 5/7/2007 6:19:39 PM

slaveish

Posts: 1086
Joined: 2/19/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aristogeiton

Is the only way to enjoy BDSM to acknowledge my own lack of self-respect and revel in it?

Only if you would revel in your lack of self-respect in a vanilla relationship. (Who says you have to be a human toilet?)

_____________________________

You only lose what you cling to. ~~Gautama Sidharta

If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other. ~~Mother Teresa

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RE: submission and self-esteem - 5/7/2007 6:21:04 PM

slaveish

Posts: 1086
Joined: 2/19/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: NControlofU

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aristogeiton
There is no denying that at the feet of a dominant is where I feel most at home, where I belong. But if I do feel that that's where I belong, what does that say about my own self-esteem?

What that says to me is that you feel most at home at the feet of your dominant. To me, that is a very positive statement and nothing to feel bad about.

~very deep smile~ Indeed.

_____________________________

You only lose what you cling to. ~~Gautama Sidharta

If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other. ~~Mother Teresa

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RE: submission and self-esteem - 5/7/2007 6:27:31 PM

ICGsteve

Posts: 202
Joined: 2/2/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveish

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aristogeiton

Is the only way to enjoy BDSM to acknowledge my own lack of self-respect and revel in it?

Only if you would revel in your lack of self-respect in a vanilla relationship. (Who says you have to be a human toilet?)

You can't revel in being inferior. A sub can revel in being a slut, a fuck toy, or a slave, but only after they realize that such a station in life does not demean their value. Those who own and use sluts, fuck toys and slaves value them very highly, for many of us they are superior beings.

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Post #: 49

RE: submission and self-esteem - 5/7/2007 6:40:45 PM

slaveish

Posts: 1086
Joined: 2/19/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ICGsteve

You can't revel in being inferior. A sub can revel in being a slut, a fuck toy, or a slave, but only after they realize that such a station in life does not demean their value. Those who own and use sluts, fuck toys and slaves value them very highly, for many of us they are superior beings.

Ahhhh, those words are so sweet when used by one's Master. Even sweeter when the words' intent are felt by the slave. (Although I view "fucktoy" as a fuck 'em and forget 'em sort of thing that I want no part of.)

_____________________________

You only lose what you cling to. ~~Gautama Sidharta

If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other. ~~Mother Teresa

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RE: submission and self-esteem - 5/7/2007 7:11:04 PM

charlotte12

Posts: 471
Joined: 5/9/2006
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I sometimes think about this and it is actually in reading this thread and the responses that i have come up with my own possible answer, so thank you :)

I sometimes have low self-esteem. For the longest time i have associated this with my BDSM desires. I have also asked myself how i could want to be hurt, want to be treated like crap (because most of my fantasies started out not as submitting but as more forceful scenes). However, while reading this thread and taking the time to think about it closely i have come to a realization. The moments when i have the lowest self-esteem in life are when i am not accepting something about myself. Because here's the problem. If i decide that wanting to be at a Dom's feet, or wanting to be humiliated is a bad thing that doesn't stop me from wanting it. Then i am thrown into this anxiety and self hate because i still want to be hurt but now it's a bad thing which must mean i'm bad. The very few times i have felt free to express exactly how far my desires go it's like my whole body finally breathes a sigh of relief. I am no longer fighting something that i cannot deny is a part of me.

Where these desires come from in me i'm not sure and perhaps i will never know. Whether they have origins in self-esteem issues or not does not really matter to me anymore. I think my advice to you would be to ask yourself this. When i am being treated like a human toilet (since that's the example you used) or even more simply, when i'm at my Master's feet, is it making me happy because i somehow feel right or am i making myself put up with it because it's how i feel i deserve to be treated?

Everyone deserves to be treated well and to get what they want out of life. For some of us that includes submission or Domination. I now realize that it is only when i can love the side of myself that wants to serve and sometimes be treated like an object will i truly be able to love myself. All of me. Because that is me.

~"charlotte"

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RE: submission and self-esteem - 5/7/2007 8:40:45 PM

slaveish

Posts: 1086
Joined: 2/19/2007
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Self-acceptance without self-loathing or guilt is a wonderful thing. Try to maintain it.

_____________________________

You only lose what you cling to. ~~Gautama Sidharta

If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other. ~~Mother Teresa

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RE: submission and self-esteem - 5/7/2007 8:42:11 PM

knowbodystoy

Posts: 12
Joined: 4/16/2007
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so many things so eloquently expressed. what a pleasure to read these thoughts and share them, thank Y/you all! i agree that self esteem is not synonimous with low self esteem and can hold a great factor in ones self worth and actually over coming low self esteem, good partnering is so essential. i do beleive true submission is within ones soul and inherant in ones character,for these people it is where true happinesss lives and grows.
thank Y/you all again for sharing!
~toy

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RE: submission and self-esteem - 5/7/2007 9:51:36 PM

astarri

Posts: 265
Joined: 4/22/2007
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quote:

You can't revel in being inferior. A sub can revel in being a slut, a fuck toy, or a slave, but only after they realize that such a station in life does not demean their value. Those who own and use sluts, fuck toys and slaves value them very highly, for many of us they are superior beings.

i can do nothing but smile here =)

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Post #: 54