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RE: Formation of dominants and submissives - 5/6/2007 10:35:38 AM

CrazyC

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

In my journey I have often wondered if my desire to dominate is healthy both for me and for my partner/s. I believe it isn't the act but the motivation that decides if something is or isn't healthy. So is my dominance simply a mask for insecurity, is it some inability to deal with the chaos of the real world? Is it perhaps some vain attempt to control someone so that I don't have to confront my issues?

These are all personal questions that only you can answer. It would be more a question of what are your motives for being Dominant?

We often hear that submissives are formed from abusive parents and I think many of us have seen enough examples to know that, while common, certainly isn't universal. So my question for submissives is how many of you had parents who didn't provide structure, who didn't provide boundaries or whom grew up in chaos and thus crave structure?

Simply this is a complete mix of nature verses nature, where i can see both in me. I came from a military family where Dad was very much in charge. There is also another philosophy that we are attracted to those who are like our parents, and that we grow up to function in relationships as we saw our parents doing. I see this alot in me because my mother might have brought up concerns to my father, but in the end it was always "what father says goes." By nature, i am a giving person and like to see other's happy.

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RE: Formation of dominants and submissives - 5/6/2007 10:36:21 AM

theMadWelder

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Hello,

About all I can add is My great grandfather was a dominat man, he orchrestraed most of the household and business of the familys life. He died in 1913.

He had 3 sons 2 married and set the guidelines for those in their households these two men died in the 70's

One was a bachelor and a gentleman till his death in the 70's.

My father was a dominant man till his last year of his life and he needed help and he graciously accepted.

I guess I am following the ground work laid out by those that came before me.

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RE: Formation of dominants and submissives - 5/6/2007 10:37:55 AM

Lashra

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I grew up with a Father who encouraged me to be myself and not to let others dictate who I am or where I am going in my life. He taught me that females were just as capable as males were and never for a second to believe that they were not. He knew I was dominant by nature and had a temper which he encouraged, he didnt believe females had to be demure 100% of the time to be feminine. But he did teach me to also keep that temper in check

for my own well being. My Father is loving, adventerous and a good man. He gave me BB guns and mini bikes to play with, taught me to hunt, fish to play basketball and football much to my Mothers dismay.

My Mom was your typical 1950's housewife except she wanted control of the bank account, she wanted Dad to do all the yard work and make all the decisions as long as she agreed with them. If she didn't there would be a huge screaming match and my Dad would say lets just find a way to agree on this, which would make her mad then the fight would start all over again. My Mom and I have very different personalities and we argued quite a bit. She thought my independence, thirst for knowledge and dominance was going to be a big minus in the search for a husband.

I followed my Dad's advice "Marriage is an option, not a necessity for living" and waited until my late 20's to tie the knot. Even though that marriage didn't work out, I learned alot. Always get to know your potentional life partner VERY well, as in live together before you get married. You never really know someone until you live with them.

~Lashra

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RE: Formation of dominants and submissives - 5/6/2007 10:45:47 AM

spanklette

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I was a latch-key kid...and enjoyed every minute of it. I learned how to schedule my time so that I could do my homework, fix my dinner, and still catch my favorite shows. My childhood and the time that I did get to spend with my parents is a cherished part of my life. My father passed away a few years ago, but my mother is still one of the people I turn to when I need a shoulder or an ear. I am certain that nothing in my childhood really led me to kink, but I am also certain that I didn't have the boundaries that kept me from it, either.

My teenage years were filled with friends who helped me understand that right and wrong are sometimes nebulous concepts...this is also when I met my kink-friendly friends, even if I didn't know it yet.

Now, that I've written all of that, I can see that where my strong desire for inspiration comes from, but not necessarily leadership.

Upon first entering the scene, it was a novelty and I was able to pick and choose what I enjoyed. Really, though, my submissive nature is really a desire to have a Dominant muse that is able to do the physically kinky things that I enjoy.

After being in a few relationships, that is really when my submissiveness began to blossom. I am a servant not only to my Dominant, but to my own desires. It just so happens that our desires mesh almost exactly, and He inspires me to be the best at whatever it is I'm trying to accomplish...just as my parents did. So, maybe it is a full circle.

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RE: Formation of dominants and submissives - 5/6/2007 11:39:09 AM

gypsygrl

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Neither of my parents were very effective as parents though they were very active and respected in the small town I grew up in. Things were pretty chaotic at home with lots of yelling and bickering but nothing that could really be considered abusive. My brother was at times terrifying, at times emotionally manipulative and could get me to play sex games. He introduced me to pornography at a pretty young age and we played a lot of sex games in the neighborhood. By the time I was 11 or 12 I became very effective at dealing with the terror and emotional manipulation and learned how to say no, a lesson that involved shutting down my own emotions so I wouldn't get hooked into somebody else's game. Sometimes I would turn the tables on him and toy with him, and get him to do stuff, but that always made me feel icky. I liked the sense of power over someone who had at times terrorized me, but couldn't deal with the guilt. I coped with other stuff through psychic withdrawal.

I had one boyfriend before I met my exhusband at 19. Both that boyfriend and my exhusband were asexual self-centered guys. I didn't want any kind of attention, so that didn't bother me and it was easier for me to focus on them than have them focus on me. My ex never showed much in the way of emotion beyond a condescending protectiveness. He was safe relative to the environment I grew up in but our relationship was platonic and focused on intellectual matters. There was no passion.

After we separated, I decided I had long ago shut down my sexuality and needed to find a way explore that area. Upon discovering bd/sm, I opted to identify a submissive because I already knew how to dominate and control and understood that for me, there was no pleasure in that and I really wanted to get away from the patterns I learned as a child.

Its a challenge for me to give up (self)control and I can only do so in the context of security which, for me, translates into a craving for structure.

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RE: Formation of dominants and submissives - 5/6/2007 11:47:48 AM

TahoeSadist

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   I grew up with discipline from both parents, though the more serious offenses were handled by Dad (you did *not* want to hear "wait til your Father gets home" LOL) but I don't know if that had anything to do with how I am. It instilled a sense of responsibility, an understanding of duty, and the idea that accomplishment comes from personal effort.
    Like many have said, the feelings and interests date back a long long way. I half-jokingly say that once I couldn't play football anymore I had to find an outlet for the infliction of pain, and thus found BDSM. But it's simply a part of my personality, as is the perfectionist streak I developed over time. Most of my hobbies are ones in which control is the major challenge and it may be questioned whether I do them because I am a control freak or if I am interested in them because control is required. I think questioning oneself is normal, at least I sure as hell hope it is as I do it a bunch. The downer to the control freak side has been wondering (and analyzing) what I should/could have done to prevent X, Y, or Z from happening or how I could have done A,B, or C better.
    I have observed in others, vanilla friends mainly, that some traits of control are either learned or inherited but definitely present through generations. Unsure whether without a large sample of people you could come to any conclusions though.

Eric

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RE: Formation of dominants and submissives - 5/6/2007 11:53:46 AM

slavegirljoy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael
So my question for submissives is how many of you had parents who didn't provide structure, who didn't provide boundaries or whom grew up in chaos and thus crave structure?

Until my parents divorced, when i was 10, i had a lot of structure and discipline, from my father. After my parents divorced and my father was no longer at home, i had very little structure and no discipline. i craved both and wished that i could live with my father so that i could have the structure and discipline in my life again. i felt very lost, confused and alone without that. i wanted to know what was expected of me and what the rules were and that there were consequences when i didn't follow the rules.

i joined the Army, when i was 18, in order to travel and get some new experiences and also have the G.I. Bill to help me pay for college. What i was surprised to find out was, that i felt very comfortable in the Army because of the strict structure and discipline. It gave me the feeling of security that i had been missing in my life, since my parent's divorce. It taught me that, i function at my best when i am under the control of a strong and sure Dominant. When i am told what to do, when to do it, how to do it, and where to do it, i am very comfortable and work very efficiently. i don't like having to guess what someone wants from me, whether in the workplace or in a personal relationship. If i am given creative license in a task, i will use it, as i am a creative person, but i still like being told to use my creativity and not just make that decision for myself.

i did have a considerable amount of chaos at home, when i was growing up. i don't like having to come home to chaos, but, in emergency situations, when things are sometimes chaotic, i do function well. i guess some of the skills i developed when i was little and having to deal with chaos does come in handy, at times. But, it's too stressful to live that way. So, i choose to live with structure & rules.

slave joy
Owned property of Master David

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RE: Formation of dominants and submissives - 5/6/2007 12:41:45 PM

smilingjaguar

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I wasn't planning on doing open heart surgery on myself today...

I was sexually abused throughout my childhood by a variety of men. I never told my mother because I had overheard her telling an aunt that if she found out someone was molesting one of her daughters she'd kill herself. I couldn't bear the thought of losing her, so I kept my mouth shut. By the time I was 12 or 13 I had gotten strong enough to beat my stepfather off of me, and I did. I beat him badly enough that he didn't come back in my room. I started seeing him looking at my younger sister. She's always been emotionally very vulnerable, and I knew he was going to go after her. Telling my mother wasn't an option because I honest to god did believe she would commit suicide, so I made a deal with the devil of sorts. I got him back in my room because if he was in my room he couldn't hurt my sister. To me, the damage was already done, and I'd long ago learned how not to be there. I talked my mom into leaving by the time I was 15. He never did get around to my sister. My brother's best friend did, though, and seeing what happened to her from that single encounter confirms that what I did was right. She would have been destroyed. There is no other way to put it. I survived it because I knew she wouldn't. I had a long-running battle in my head where I didn't feel I could blame him for any of it since I basically stopped fighting him so he would return. I felt it was ALL my fault, and it wasn't.It took a long time to be at piece with the fact that I was between a rock and a hard place as a child and made the only decision that I would have been able to live with.

I still have a need for the people I love to be happy. I still have it in my nature to throw myself under the bus for them simply because I'll make it. The fact is that I was like this before I was abused, and this nature changed the course of how the abuse played out, and not the other way around.

I had a lot of expectations on me as a child. I was identified very early on for the gifted programs, and it was easy to get attention and affections with good grades. It came easy to me, so that's what I did. The better my grades got, the higher the pressure from the outside. I learned to flourish under the pressure and restrictions keeping these marks eventually caused. When I went to college and had nothing to guide me, all of the control I had left. I had a nervous breakdown and had all of the memories I had been repressing come out. My relationship with my Sir didn't start out D/s. I had no clue this sort of thing even existed. He did, but that's another conversation. It developed and came naturally as trust was built between the two of us. I've been restrained and literally had a blocked memory I was repressing beaten out of me. The confusion of the endorphin rush was initially the only place I could get them out because my mind fought the flood with everything it had. Now my mind pretty much knows that when he walks in the room resisitance is futile. He will get it out. He's never put restrictions on me speaking about my troubles because he knows I am healthiest when they are brought to the surface and aired out. He's never gotten upset with me over the times when my baggage rears its head and ruins a perfectly good scene. He's happy because it is one less weight on my soul.

The biggest way it has shaped me is that I still function best in a household where there are clear limits, boundaries, and expectations. I like that there is a safe zone in our house where I know that things are fine as long as those rules are followed. I am perfectly capable of living on my own, but I do best when under his guidance.

Add disclaimer about not using BDSM as therapy here...

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RE: Formation of dominants and submissives - 5/6/2007 12:47:34 PM

SunNMoon

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I’m a switch, and I don’t think that my childhood had any impact on this. I do think it allowed me, the chance to accept myself sooner and not have to go through a questioning stage of what kind of relationship that I want.

My parents were not at all controlling. I had a very lovely and supportive childhood, close to the “Leave it to Beaver” household (stay at home Mom). They are still married (almost 40 years), and I hope to have a similar marriage. I didn’t have a curfew ever (expect when I was under 10 then it was be inside before it was dark). Family dinner every night. No rules, just expectations of how a person should act. I still hold onto that, I don’t like the idea of punishment in my relationships. I was always told that you can be anything that you want to be and keep your options open. It really was ideal, they are wonderful people. I talk to them daily to this day.

I think the impact that my childhood had on forming me was, that I am able to have the kind of relationship I want with no guilt and knowing my goal is to live life to its fullest.

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RE: Formation of dominants and sub missives - 5/6/2007 1:02:37 PM

ICGsteve

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My wife was abused as a child, and because of that had a need to role play D/s games in sex in order to "process" the original abuse. I became more dominant in order that our marriage would have balance, and because I wanted to give her what she wanted. We are increasingly moving into lifestyle D/s because we are both beginning to see that she needs a steady hand.

I have no moral problem with using BDSM as therapy or in place of therapy. In life we do what works. It is all fine and good to let our morality and/or socially acceptable vehicles be our starting point for our personal growth, but if for what ever reason those ideas and programs don't work then it is time to try something else.

< Message edited by ICGsteve -- 5/6/2007 1:03:39 PM >

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RE: Formation of dominants and sub missives - 5/6/2007 1:21:15 PM

smilingjaguar

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The disclaimer was more of a joke than anything else. That said, I had no access to any sort of therapy and I believe that if you do have access to therapy it would be wise to try that first. I don't believe it would have helped in my case anyway because to this date my Sir is the only one I am remotely comfortable speaking to about these things in any great detail. I could imagine going to a therapist and paying for an hour of total silence on my part, especially if said therapist happened to be male.

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RE: Formation of dominants and submissives - 5/6/2007 1:44:05 PM

MistressDoMe

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When you decided to move back into your mother's house as a grown man, the rules changed.
Now that you are living under her roof, the golden rule applies.
She that has the gold {her house}, makes the rules.

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RE: Formation of dominants and submissives - 5/6/2007 2:32:05 PM

velvetears

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

We often hear that submissives are formed from abusive parents and I think many of us have seen enough examples to know that, while common, certainly isn't universal. So my question for submissives is how many of you had parents who didn't provide structure, who didn't provide boundaries or whom grew up in chaos and thus crave structure?

I look forward to many thoughtful and challenging answers!

i grew up in a house with 4 siblings and there was absolutely no structure, boundaries, rules, etc. Chaos doesn't even come close to describe life in my house growing up. i hated it and couldn't wait to grow up so i could leave, thank god i had a good head on my shoulders and wanted good things for myself, or i could have very easily gone down the wrong path. All my siblings became alcoholic/drug abusers unfortunately, i had no interst thank god.

In my home i could go to bed when i wanted, brush or not brush my teeth, stay out and not even come home when i felt like it, get bad grades, etc.... no consequences or even discussion about doing better etc. This made me learn from a very early age i had to learn to depend on myself for things. i started working at 14, was out of the house and on my own by the time i was 17, moved across country to go to school, put myself through college working 3 jobs doing whever it took to make it, but lacking the learned discipline one gets in childhood made achieving all these things in life very difficult. i became a procrastinator and still am to this day (hate that quality about myself). i have a difficult time trusting others and letting go and allowing someone to help me, even to this day and i am sure it stems from my childhood.

i grew up in the 60's and almost all of my friends had way more structure and dicipline then i had, most were physically disciplined and i can remember being present when my friends upstairs (we lived in an apt building) were getting beat with the belt. i can remember wishing it were me and i can also remember a strong physical reaction (sexual) to this event, to this day. i equated being beaten with being loved - in my view, their parents cared for them, gave them the discipline and rules i never had, so maybe i associated beating with love. This experience, along with being the punching bag of my older brother who bullied me, set up the ground work for me being a masochist today, i am sure.

So to answer the question i think my childhood has impacted me greatly - i do crave structure from outside myself and have had it in D/s based relationships but because i never had it instilled in me, in any form, during my childhood, i find it very difficult to carry out. You can imagine how frustrating this is to the dom lol. i don't trust easily and that has also impacted me in my relationships. When you were never able to depend on the adults in your life growing up, how do you switch that around to trusting a dom enough to give over control of you? Not easy.

On another note, a friend of mine who is a dominant grew up in a very physically abusive home. His dad abused both him and his mom physically and severly. He believes he is a sadist today as a result. It gives him back the control he never had as a child and gives him a venue to vent out all the pent up rage he feels. He greatly resented his mother, which he claims impacts his sadism. He often worries about crossing a line one day, and he's not very proud of the way he feels, although he has come to accept it and does a good job, with the help of a wonderful masochist wife, of dealing with it all.

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RE: Formation of dominants and submissives - 5/6/2007 2:34:38 PM

Wildfleurs

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

We often hear that submissives are formed from abusive parents and I think many of us have seen enough examples to know that, while common, certainly isn't universal. So my question for submissives is how many of you had parents who didn't provide structure, who didn't provide boundaries or whom grew up in chaos and thus crave structure?

I look forward to many thoughtful and challenging answers!

My mother provided boundaries and structure as well as a lot of support. Nor did I grow up in any sort of abusive atmosphere.

I don't think my owner would describe his parents as controlling or overbearing (from what I know of them).

C~

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RE: Formation of dominants and submissives - 5/6/2007 4:04:34 PM

sambamanslilgirl

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

We often hear that submissives are formed from abusive parents and I think many of us have seen enough examples to know that, while common, certainly isn't universal. So my question for submissives is how many of you had parents who didn't provide structure, who didn't provide boundaries or whom grew up in chaos and thus crave structure?

i had structrure and boundary since day 1 - military and religious. you could say my parents were a dominant couple and raised me to be dominant as well. being the only child for most of my life, i was taught to be independent, self-sufficient, confident, aggressive, etc ...by the time i was 5, i could navigate the public transit system around Chicago myself. i had schedules to keep and duties (chores) to do. chaos and unstructure was not part of my childhood nor was it allowed - so my childhood does somewhat disspell you theory as to why i'm a submissive

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RE: Formation of dominants and submissives - 5/6/2007 4:55:46 PM

losttreasure

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

In my journey I have often wondered if my desire to dominate is healthy both for me and for my partner/s. I believe it isn't the act but the motivation that decides if something is or isn't healthy. So is my dominance simply a mask for insecurity, is it some inability to deal with the chaos of the real world? Is it perhaps some vain attempt to control someone so that I don't have to confront my issues?

Why only "bad" reasons, Michael? Couldn't it be equally true that you simply have a strong self-awareness and because of that, have a very clear idea of what it is you need for fulfillment? There is nothing unhealthy about having the knowledge of what you need and the fortitude to seek out and create that environment. Desire to control those things that have a tendency to be unpredictable would seem logical. Finding a partner who shares your vision and is the yin to your yang, brings the strength of numbers in working toward your goals. The key for healthiness would be the flexibility and understanding that there are some things uncontrollable and best left that way. Life would be dull indeed without the spontaneity and excitement of drama that the unknown can bring.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

We often hear that submissives are formed from abusive parents and I think many of us have seen enough examples to know that, while common, certainly isn't universal. So my question for submissives is how many of you had parents who didn't provide structure, who didn't provide boundaries or whom grew up in chaos and thus crave structure?

I didn't grow up with a complete lack of boundaries or structure, but there was a lack of consistency and ample disappointment. I don't really consider myself as having been abused, but rather emotionally neglected or ignored. It's pretty heartbreaking for a child to need love, support and guidance but to be made instead to feel as if they were a burden. As a result, I don't feel it's structure, per se, that I crave, but more someone reliable who will be there for me providing those things I could never earn as a child... and I suppose a clear and set way for me to earn them.

lol... Sounds pretty selfish of me, I know.

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RE: Formation of dominants and submissives - 5/6/2007 5:36:33 PM

fairerthanshe

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Greetings SimplyMichael,

fairer hopes her answer will be accepted even if she is la kajira...

fairer had never disobeyed her parents until she was 16. It never even occurred to her to do so. (the difference being, at 16 she wanted boys more than approval from her parents) She was born with the desire to serve and to be pleasing. Her parents still provide her with great love, support and friendship as we have always been close.

To the desire for BDSM activities as opposed to service, she remembers her first fantasy being acted out with her Barbie dolls being tied up and then ravaged by her brother's GI Joe's. She was 3 years old when these started. They continued and became more elaborate and somehow she never "got to old" to play with her Barbie's until she went to college. Her first D/s relationship started shortly after moving to Austin in 1984.

well wishes,

fairer than she

<edited for punctuation>

< Message edited by fairerthanshe -- 5/6/2007 5:37:57 PM >

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RE: Formation of dominants and submissives - 5/6/2007 5:42:49 PM

juliaoceania

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quote:

We often hear that submissives are formed from abusive parents and I think many of us have seen enough examples to know that, while common, certainly isn't universal. So my question for submissives is how many of you had parents who didn't provide structure, who didn't provide boundaries or whom grew up in chaos and thus crave structure?

I grew up in a family that had a fair amount of structure. It was not overly structured, my parents were liberal. My mom was a neat freak, but she was one who liked it cleaned her way, so she cleaned it. There was not a lot of strictness in my family. I was loved, and rarely punished, and sought to please. I did well in that environment.

I like some structure to my life in many ways. I need to go to bed at a certain time, get up on a regular schedule. I enforce this upon myself as an adult. I do not need anyone to tell me how to do things for the most part. I have structured my own life because I wanted my son to have structure... it really helps to parent in a structured home.

Daddy does not offer me a lot of structure, in fact he likes the idea of someone that can be somewhat spontaneous and not freak out if the structure is changed somewhat. I do not get overly upset if the structure isn't there

I would say that people mostly seek to recreate the environment that they feel comfortable in as a result of their childhoods mostly. People that had chaos will attract people and situations to them that create that. People who had a stable home life recreate that. People who were abused will often find others to abuse them. This is not universally true, but there are a lot of people who create psycho dramas unwittingly. And they do not see how they do it, which is really a result of the energy they project.

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RE: Formation of dominants and submissives - 5/6/2007 6:09:14 PM

MistressRouge

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Well My father wore the trousers in our household. Very strict, set in his strict yet nurturing, providing ways. Very old school, kids should be seen and not heard etc etc, yet the love was paramount. My father's glare, I have inherited and I must say, I am a chip off the old block.I was/am a rebel as a child/teen, and the black sheep of the family, hated rules and restrictions, stayed out that extra hour etc, rebelled especially in My teens.

I utilised the art of manipulation way back, practising on My siblings, friends and peers. I had a cruel streak even as far back as 5 years old, not due to My family enviroment, which was structured and secure.

< Message edited by MistressRouge -- 5/6/2007 6:10:16 PM >

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

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RE: Formation of dominants and submissives - 5/6/2007 6:26:32 PM

soulfulkitten

Posts: 27
Joined: 1/9/2005
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Hello,

I had a difficult time coming to terms with being submissive. I was in therapy at the time and brought it up to the therapist. She pointed out to me every relationship I"d ever been in I"ve been submissive. To me that showed a long varied history as well as not being completely about a comprehensive decision.

I agree that part of my submisive nature was due to an abusive environment as a child. As well, I had little to no structure, rules or guidelines. This is probably partly why I crave it now. As for being a masochist, I have no idea if part of this is due to the physical abuse or not. But for me it's a big stress reliever. I know when I am getting more and more cheeky and less listening, that it is something I NEED.

My .02 for what it's worth. I agree an interesting topic.

soulful_kitten

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

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