quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo

I think your vanilla boyfriend at the time was asking more about your particular interests instead of making a general claim about submissives or dominants.

I think after several years of reading things by you, Akasha, here and on other email lists and groups, that you are attracted to the vanilla and you a thrill from doing what might be considered kinky with them. I don't think, for example, that you find Fox very intriguing at all. You just aren't interested in what we might think of as a submissive man.

Am I even slightly correct?

While Fox is not a challenge in any negative why he is certainly not easy in any way at all. I consider myself very honored to have earned his submission and service because he would not give himself to just anyone and has flat out told me that he has zero interest in being a slave for anyone other than me. He does not identify as a slave but as my slave for example. Why I can see myself owning others he cannot see himself being owned by anyone and cannot see himself seeking out anything more than part-time Ds or kink for flavor in the future.

quote:

ORIGINAL: rob425

I come out and say I don't submit to just anyone is a dominant. When a vanilla person thinks submissive, they most likely think the extreme, which is a submissive has a submissive personality all the time.

quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo

I think your vanilla boyfriend at the time was asking more about your particular interests instead of making a general claim about submissives or dominants.

I think after several years of reading things by you, Akasha, here and on other email lists and groups, that you are attracted to the vanilla and you a thrill from doing what might be considered kinky with them. I don't think, for example, that you find Fox very intriguing at all. You just aren't interested in what we might think of as a submissive man.

Am I even slightly correct?

While Fox is not a challenge in any negative why he is certainly not easy in any way at all. I consider myself very honored to have earned his submission and service because he would not give himself to just anyone and has flat out told me that he has zero interest in being a slave for anyone other than me. He does not identify as a slave but as my slave for example. Why I can see myself owning others he cannot see himself being owned by anyone and cannot see himself seeking out anything more than part-time Ds or kink for flavor in the future.

You are right that a submissive man, for the most part, rarely can interest me, if he approaches me with "balls out submission" - which is often the standard approach (less these days, which is nice).  However, the right submissive man, I have found, can blow a vanilla man out of the water, because he has a far greater tolerance and understanding and *compassion* for me as a kinky person and knows what that is like.

My challenge is that I only dominated vanilla men for the first 5 years of my "kink awareness" and by the time I came across "submissives" I was bombarded with their overzealous approach, "me first" attitude (that comes with many, not all) but mostly their meek demeanor and "drop of a hat" submission - after all, their goal is to become that submissive they desire, so it's natural that they slip into that role with ease. 

What I find interesting is that it is nearly universal that most dominant women do seek an outward "shell" at least of  a man who is toned down as far as submissive goes (not meek, weak, or grovelling, or offering up no-limits, take me now surrender), and reserves that approach for an appropriate woman at an appropriate time. Yet, so few sub men make an attempt to tone it down and hold it, cherished, until the proper time to give it over (hence, the challenge part).  Instead, it's wide open and out there, ready, for sometimes anyone, as long as she is willing to take it.

I think a great many submissives have so much more to offer if they could bring it down a notch, "vanilla"-ize their appropach just a bit, and let a dominant woman do the peeling of the onion.  That's not even a "challenge" so much as it's a "project" and I think most dominant women enjoy peeling the layers to get to the juicy, submissive "center."

The interesting part of this particular discussion is what constitutes a challenge.  Submissive men can be a challenge without being "difficult" per se; just slightly less transparent.

Akasha

quote:

"To learn the art of submission a slave must first give up the desires that drew him to submission in the first place." Mistress Jasmyn Jan 2005.

quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

What I find interesting is that it is nearly universal that most dominant women do seek an outward "shell" at least of  a man who is toned down as far as submissive goes (not meek, weak, or grovelling, or offering up no-limits, take me now surrender), and reserves that approach for an appropriate woman at an appropriate time. Yet, so few sub men make an attempt to tone it down and hold it, cherished, until the proper time to give it over (hence, the challenge part).  Instead, it's wide open and out there, ready, for sometimes anyone, as long as she is willing to take it.

I think a great many submissives have so much more to offer if they could bring it down a notch, "vanilla"-ize their appropach just a bit, and let a dominant woman do the peeling of the onion.  That's not even a "challenge" so much as it's a "project" and I think most dominant women enjoy peeling the layers to get to the juicy, submissive "center."

Interesting comments Akasha, particularly in light of the strong negative reactions I've often read voiced here on CM or elsewhere in reaction to a man saying "I may be a submissive, but I'm not your submissive".  And for the record, I do agree with the essence of what you've said.

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ORIGINAL: SweetDommes

Just a note, Pixel ... normally when I see someone using those words on these boards, it's an excuse to be a rude little prig - not simply because they aren't bowing and scraping to everyone.  I have no problem with someone saying "well, I'm not your submissive" to someone demanding submission at random, but when someone says it as an excuse to be rude and obnoxious, I'm always going to react negatively.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo
I think after several years of reading things by you, Akasha, here and on other email lists and groups, that you are attracted to the vanilla and you a thrill from doing what might be considered kinky with them. I don't think, for example, that you find Fox very intriguing at all. You just aren't interested in what we might think of as a submissive man.

quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

What I find interesting is that it is nearly universal that most dominant women do seek an outward "shell" at least of  a man who is toned down as far as submissive goes (not meek, weak, or grovelling, or offering up no-limits, take me now surrender), and reserves that approach for an appropriate woman at an appropriate time. Yet, so few sub men make an attempt to tone it down and hold it, cherished, until the proper time to give it over (hence, the challenge part).