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"White Knight Syndrome" - 6/30/2005 11:11:41 PM

Posts: 2539
Joined: 11/29/2004
From: SeaTac area
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I believe that LadyAngelika is the one who coined the term I used as the subject and first used it as a term on these message boards, but I'm the one that wants honest debate on it. Bored people do weird things at 1AM, I suppose.

She used the term to refer to Dominants, mostly male, who go around in search of poor innocent subbies that need help and a person to "rescue" them from whatever their problems happen to be.

Well, in my case, protecting and supporting are integral parts of my nature, both as a human being and as a Domme. I know there is such a thing as being too nice and supportive, but I don't feel I've ever crossed that line and I don't force myself on people that need a shoulder to cry on, figurative or literal. However, I feel a little helpless every time one of my friends denies my offer and I have to watch him or her suffer alone.

If there are others who see themselves like me, how do you prevent/control that helpless feeling? And is there anything inherently wrong or odd (probably wrong choice of words, but oh well) with enjoying being the metaphorical knight in shining armor for a person you care about?

_____________________________

Kimi ni aitakute dare yori mo aitakute
hajimete kimi ni atta hoshizora no shita de.
Kimi ni tsutaetai todokanai omoi demo
boku no kokoro wa mada kimi o sagashiteiru.

Gackt - Kimi ni Aitakute

RE: "White Knight Syndrome" - 7/1/2005 1:03:25 AM

GoddessDustyGold

Posts: 2822
Joined: 4/11/2004
From: Arizona
Status: offline

It may be an integral part of your nature, but be careful. One question I would ask Myself, is why is this such a need for you?
Well meaning help, at appropriate times and to an appropriate extent can be a good thing. But pushing your advice and guidance and support in wrong areas can happen very easily.
This can be a form of co-dependence. So, yes, I do believe this is inherently harmful. It indicates that you are too busy taking care of everybody else, and that is often a way to avoid your own problems. If you are busy solving everybody else's problems you don't have time to see where you are or what you are doing yourself. I am not saying you do this. But it is a pitfall.
Take the instance of an alcoholic. You may want this person, with all your heart, to stop drinking and killing him/herself. Until they make a decision, on their own, that they have a problem, all the interference or help you try to give, or rescuing you try to do, will only end up in heartache for you, and often drives the person farther away.
If you have friends who are in trouble, and they say they don't want any help, you need to respect that. You cannot know what they are thinking or doing, or how they are trying to work through their personal situation. All your well meaning "I'm here for you" can be quite nervewracking. Because, too often, the person that is there for them is also trying to dictate how they should solve their problem. Sometimes in a very aggressive manner. There are times when it is right to intervene. There are also times when it is right to back away and respect that person's space.
I am always there for My friends who may need help, or just an ear. But I learned long ago, to lend only the ear, and lend support. I may even offer options or persepctives that may assist the person in moving in a more positive direction. I will only offer up ideas. I will never say "Do this" or "have you done this yet?"...That is tantamount to saying, "I told you what to do, so why haven't you taken care of it yet?" I can't solve the problem for them. They have to do that on their own. And if I am having a problem, the last thing I ever want is someone pressuring Me to do it their way. It is easy to get insistent about something that you may think is very simple, but is very confusing for the person directly involved.
So if someone says "thanks, but no thanks", it might mean that your well intentioned help is putting more pressure on an already difficult situation. It is a fine line, and we don't always walk it correctly. We can only try.

_____________________________

Dusty
They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety
B Franklin
Don't blame Me ~ I didn't vote for either of them
The Hidden Kingdom

(in reply to CalliopePurple)

RE: "White Knight Syndrome" - 7/1/2005 1:08:34 AM

Posts: 1280
Joined: 2/11/2005
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Well I don't go around offering help my friends come upto me. Then I offer my thoughts. I did however try to help a few friends with relationships and I ended up being correct but it ruined out friendship for awhile as it seems to them im jealous.

So my advice is just be around them and go for a coffee or be alone without asking to be alone and most often or not they will open up...

(in reply to GoddessDustyGold)

RE: "White Knight Syndrome" - 7/1/2005 2:31:08 AM

Posts: 2539
Joined: 11/29/2004
From: SeaTac area
Status: offline

Dusty - Yes, I have avoided my own problems for a good part of my life. But I'm working on them right now, even if that means freaking out because of flashbacks of all the verbal abuse I dealt with when I was younger because I was more worried about being seen as a good person than anything else.

I never force myself on anyone, though I might ask "Do you need to vent?" a time or two more than I probably should and it's had its costs. A friend who cuts herself knows damn well that I worry when she mentions it and I know she doesn't like talking about it, but I still ask because it's habit. Things between us are often strained because of that.

Very rarely does anyone see me with a Yahoo status of "Friendly shoulder CP is not around tonight. If you have a problem, go fuck yourself with a broomstick," but they get the hint when that is up. Sometimes, I just don't wanna deal with it. Maybe I'm too aggressive in wanting to help the people most in danger of seriously harming themselves (the cutters I know), but I try my best.

And it's helped with my pet. Always being there for her when she needed someone to talk to helped her realize 1 - That she really is loveable and 2 - she doesn't need the extra weight she put on when she was depressed.

_____________________________

Kimi ni aitakute dare yori mo aitakute
hajimete kimi ni atta hoshizora no shita de.
Kimi ni tsutaetai todokanai omoi demo
boku no kokoro wa mada kimi o sagashiteiru.

Gackt - Kimi ni Aitakute

(in reply to imtempting)

RE: "White Knight Syndrome" - 7/1/2005 10:41:41 AM

Posts: 830
Joined: 6/21/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CalliopePurple

I believe that LadyAngelika is the one who coined the term I used as the subject and first used it as a term on these message boards, but I'm the one that wants honest debate on it. Bored people do weird things at 1AM, I suppose.

She used the term to refer to Dominants, mostly male, who go around in search of poor innocent subbies that need help and a person to "rescue" them from whatever their problems happen to be.

Well, in my case, protecting and supporting are integral parts of my nature, both as a human being and as a Domme. I know there is such a thing as being too nice and supportive, but I don't feel I've ever crossed that line and I don't force myself on people that need a shoulder to cry on, figurative or literal. However, I feel a little helpless every time one of my friends denies my offer and I have to watch him or her suffer alone.

If there are others who see themselves like me, how do you prevent/control that helpless feeling? And is there anything inherently wrong or odd (probably wrong choice of words, but oh well) with enjoying being the metaphorical knight in shining armor for a person you care about?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:

Well, in my case, protecting and supporting are integral parts of my nature, both as a human being and as a Domme. I know there is such a thing as being too nice and supportive,

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ok. so where IS the line? as a macho male, i have been a loner all my life. some say too long. i learned to depend on ME because no one else seems able to hold up to my standards.
yet on one hand, i hear as a submissive slave to dommes, i am supposed-to show my inner weakness? now if i am correct? IF? i read into this, as, it is a burden to do so?
please? where do YOU draw that line?
do i just stay macho so YOU dommes have a hubby-substitute/ father-figure to lean on or am i supposed to break down like a little school boy so your mommy instincts kick in?
i AM very confused about this socializing thing.

please??????/
IS there a right or wrong? or is it? "every domme is different yadda yadda bla bla"

thank You

< Message edited by lonewolf05 -- 7/6/2005 10:13:08 PM >

(in reply to CalliopePurple)

RE: "White Knight Syndrome" - 7/1/2005 11:08:33 AM

Posts: 3645
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CalliopePurple

If there are others who see themselves like me, how do you prevent/control that helpless feeling? And is there anything inherently wrong or odd (probably wrong choice of words, but oh well) with enjoying being the metaphorical knight in shining armor for a person you care about?

I don't know how to prevent or even terribly much control any feelings at all, but you seem to have a good grip on handling them once you have them and that's what counts. I think it shows a sense of empathy inside you and is a very desireable thing for me.

There's nothing wrong with being a knight to someone, or allowing them to enjoy you being their knight- as long as it doesn't go too far. I'm the type who thinks its best to teach someone how to be MORE confident on their own, not more dependent. We all need shelter sometimes, as long as we aren't running from who we are, and as long as everyone is fulfilling instead of being an emotional vampire, I think it's fine.

The problem I see happen too often is the repeated tale of woe of a dom who gets sucked into things with a great woman who drains him of his energy and time, and then moves onto the next bit of fresh meant, and then meets yet another woman who does that same thing to him...getting into a cycle of being used and left and unfulfilled is where it becomes a problem. Relationships are supposed to make people feel more powerful and more fulfilled.

(in reply to CalliopePurple)

RE: "White Knight Syndrome" - 7/1/2005 12:26:24 PM

Posts: 2539
Joined: 11/29/2004
From: SeaTac area
Status: offline

Thank you Emerald. Helping pet become more confident and capable in the outside world is exactly what I'm doing and she's thanked me more than once for not giving up where othere people have thrown in the towel.

My first two relationships were with emotionally draining guys and it drove me fucking nuts. I left when I realized the toll it was having on my own stability.

_____________________________

Kimi ni aitakute dare yori mo aitakute
hajimete kimi ni atta hoshizora no shita de.
Kimi ni tsutaetai todokanai omoi demo
boku no kokoro wa mada kimi o sagashiteiru.

Gackt - Kimi ni Aitakute

(in reply to EmeraldSlave2)

RE: "White Knight Syndrome" - 7/1/2005 12:29:22 PM

Posts: 2539
Joined: 11/29/2004
From: SeaTac area
Status: offline

Lonewolf - Some Dommes enjoy taking on the "Mommy" role, others don't, but I think nearly all can agree that they'd appreciate being able to see their sub really open up and trust them because trust is one of the most important factors of any relationship, especially D/s. There's no definitive right and wrong, there are few of those in life, much less the lifestyle, but learning to trust another may be your biggest stumbling block in finding that "perfect" match.

_____________________________

Kimi ni aitakute dare yori mo aitakute
hajimete kimi ni atta hoshizora no shita de.
Kimi ni tsutaetai todokanai omoi demo
boku no kokoro wa mada kimi o sagashiteiru.

Gackt - Kimi ni Aitakute

(in reply to CalliopePurple)

RE: "White Knight Syndrome" - 7/1/2005 7:20:44 PM

Posts: 2117
Joined: 1/4/2005
From: Iowa
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: lonewolf05
i learned to depend on ME because no one else seems able to hold up to my standards.
yet on one hand, i hear as a submissive slave to dommes, i am supposed-to show my inner weakness?

My understanding of D/s is that the sub needs to show his inner strength. To submit means you are putting her desires before yours - this can be hard. It also requires trust - that she will make decisions that are in the best interest of you both. Trust means that you not pass judgement on her.

A submissive will not make it unless they are tough. But the toughness is like that of the Marines - you follow orders without criticizing your officer.

< Message edited by onceburned -- 7/1/2005 7:21:24 PM >

(in reply to lonewolf05)

RE: "White Knight Syndrome" - 7/1/2005 7:32:13 PM

GoddessDustyGold

Posts: 2822
Joined: 4/11/2004
From: Arizona
Status: offline

***Applauding Chris*** Nicely said!

< Message edited by GoddessDustyGold -- 7/1/2005 7:34:12 PM >

_____________________________

Dusty
They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety
B Franklin
Don't blame Me ~ I didn't vote for either of them
The Hidden Kingdom

(in reply to onceburned)

RE: "White Knight Syndrome" - 7/1/2005 8:51:28 PM

Posts: 2539
Joined: 11/29/2004
From: SeaTac area
Status: offline

*Applauds as well*

_____________________________

Kimi ni aitakute dare yori mo aitakute
hajimete kimi ni atta hoshizora no shita de.
Kimi ni tsutaetai todokanai omoi demo
boku no kokoro wa mada kimi o sagashiteiru.

Gackt - Kimi ni Aitakute

(in reply to GoddessDustyGold)

RE: "White Knight Syndrome" - 7/2/2005 12:11:42 AM

Posts: 830
Joined: 6/21/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CalliopePurple

Lonewolf - Some Dommes enjoy taking on the "Mommy" role, others don't, but I think nearly all can agree that they'd appreciate being able to see their sub really open up and trust them because trust is one of the most important factors of any relationship, especially D/s. There's no definitive right and wrong, there are few of those in life, much less the lifestyle, but learning to trust another may be your biggest stumbling block in finding that "perfect" match.

==========================================

quote:

see their sub really open up and trust them

i have told every domme i ever talked to about my 3 wives and the mess i had after the ole man shot himself, and my childhood abuse. i have trusted all of em.
if you mean play trust? not been there.
if you mean sex? not been there.
did i miss anything?

(in reply to CalliopePurple)

RE: "White Knight Syndrome" - 7/2/2005 7:27:06 AM

Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline

quote:

I believe that LadyAngelika is the one who coined the term I used as the subject and first used it as a term on these message boards, but I'm the one that wants honest debate on it. Bored people do weird things at 1AM, I suppose.

She used the term to refer to Dominants, mostly male, who go around in search of poor innocent subbies that need help and a person to "rescue" them from whatever their problems happen to be.

Well, in my case, protecting and supporting are integral parts of my nature, both as a human being and as a Domme.

I can be very protective and supportive as well. Even of my strong friends. Sometimes, people need help. I've had people protect and support me as well.

Empathy, caring, love... those are all amazing things. But there is a difference between helping someone and taking over. From this thread, I get the feeling that you are a someone who cares about people and are someone that people can truly depend on and that is an amazing thing.

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to CalliopePurple)

RE: "White Knight Syndrome" - 7/2/2005 9:24:31 AM

Posts: 830
Joined: 6/21/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: onceburned

quote:

ORIGINAL: lonewolf05
i learned to depend on ME because no one else seems able to hold up to my standards.
yet on one hand, i hear as a submissive slave to dommes, i am supposed-to show my inner weakness?

My understanding of D/s is that the sub needs to show his inner strength. To submit means you are putting her desires before yours - this can be hard. It also requires trust - that she will make decisions that are in the best interest of you both. Trust means that you not pass judgement on her.

A submissive will not make it unless they are tough. But the toughness is like that of the Marines - you follow orders without criticizing your officer.

quote:

A submissive will not make it unless they are tough. But the toughness is like that of the Marines - you follow orders without criticizing your officer.

since i did my time for my country overseas, i can state clearly every soldier has the right, to question his officer. it's in the regulations. so this is not relevant.
and i always put Her desires in front of mine. i do my house chores and yard work whether i am in the mood or not, whether i am sick or well. duty is duty. just like when i was roofing, with a fever of 106 and still at work.
and as to not passing judgement? a bit difficult to do, when i am able to work, sick or not, but everyone else flakes out on me. riddle me that one batman.

wolf

(in reply to onceburned)

RE: "White Knight Syndrome" - 7/2/2005 9:47:10 AM

Posts: 4429
Joined: 11/27/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: lonewolf05

quote:

ORIGINAL: onceburned

quote:

ORIGINAL: lonewolf05
i learned to depend on ME because no one else seems able to hold up to my standards.
yet on one hand, i hear as a submissive slave to dommes, i am supposed-to show my inner weakness?

My understanding of D/s is that the sub needs to show his inner strength. To submit means you are putting her desires before yours - this can be hard. It also requires trust - that she will make decisions that are in the best interest of you both. Trust means that you not pass judgement on her.

A submissive will not make it unless they are tough. But the toughness is like that of the Marines - you follow orders without criticizing your officer.

quote:

A submissive will not make it unless they are tough. But the toughness is like that of the Marines - you follow orders without criticizing your officer.

since i did my time for my country overseas, i can state clearly every soldier has the right, to question his officer. it's in the regulations. so this is not relevant.
and i always put Her desires in front of mine. i do my house chores and yard work whether i am in the mood or not, whether i am sick or well. duty is duty. just like when i was roofing, with a fever of 106 and still at work.
and as to not passing judgement? a bit difficult to do, when i am able to work, sick or not, but everyone else flakes out on me. riddle me that one batman.

wolf

That kind of dedication is not worth it if the sub is a martyr about it -- that's important to note.

I don't know that "questioning" your dominant partner is the same as "criticizing". I get a different vibe from each.

Akasha

_____________________________

Akasha's Web - All original Femdom content since 1995
Don't email me here, email me at [email protected]

(in reply to lonewolf05)

RE: "White Knight Syndrome" - 7/2/2005 10:24:25 AM

Posts: 830
Joined: 6/21/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

quote:

ORIGINAL: lonewolf05

quote:

ORIGINAL: onceburned

quote:

ORIGINAL: lonewolf05
i learned to depend on ME because no one else seems able to hold up to my standards.
yet on one hand, i hear as a submissive slave to dommes, i am supposed-to show my inner weakness?

My understanding of D/s is that the sub needs to show his inner strength. To submit means you are putting her desires before yours - this can be hard. It also requires trust - that she will make decisions that are in the best interest of you both. Trust means that you not pass judgement on her.

A submissive will not make it unless they are tough. But the toughness is like that of the Marines - you follow orders without criticizing your officer.

quote:

A submissive will not make it unless they are tough. But the toughness is like that of the Marines - you follow orders without criticizing your officer.

since i did my time for my country overseas, i can state clearly every soldier has the right, to question his officer. it's in the regulations. so this is not relevant.
and i always put Her desires in front of mine. i do my house chores and yard work whether i am in the mood or not, whether i am sick or well. duty is duty. just like when i was roofing, with a fever of 106 and still at work.
and as to not passing judgement? a bit difficult to do, when i am able to work, sick or not, but everyone else flakes out on me. riddle me that one batman.

wolf

That kind of dedication is not worth it if the sub is a martyr about it -- that's important to note.

I don't know that "questioning" your dominant partner is the same as "criticizing". I get a different vibe from each.

Akasha

quote:

That kind of dedication is not worth it if the sub is a martyr about it -- that's important to note.

I don't know that "questioning" your dominant partner is the same as "criticizing". I get a different vibe from each.

Akasha

=========================

i have always had high standards. it's not my fault if i am the only one able to perform at MY level. but then, i am the anal one. i am the type "A" behavior pattern. i am the one taught young, sacrifice! work your ass off to get to the end. there is no such thing in my vocabulary as vacation. "I" am used to working 7 days a week. "there is no rest for the wicked", as it were.
what someone else does, is not my concern. i just state, what "I" am capable of doing.
when as a 24/7/365..it MEANS......365. there is NO time-off.

just MY training in this. what's yours?

the wolf

(in reply to AAkasha)

RE: "White Knight Syndrome" - 7/2/2005 1:42:15 PM

Posts: 2539
Joined: 11/29/2004
From: SeaTac area
Status: offline

Thank you, LA. One of my friends theorizes that people are drawn to me because they can just tell I've got the strength to be there all the time. Then again, I usually hear all kinds of compliments when I'm least in the mood to accept them, but it's still good to know I'm seen as reliable, friendly, protective, and caring.

_____________________________

Kimi ni aitakute dare yori mo aitakute
hajimete kimi ni atta hoshizora no shita de.
Kimi ni tsutaetai todokanai omoi demo
boku no kokoro wa mada kimi o sagashiteiru.

Gackt - Kimi ni Aitakute

(in reply to lonewolf05)

RE: "White Knight Syndrome" - 7/2/2005 2:46:36 PM

Posts: 830
Joined: 6/21/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CalliopePurple

Thank you, LA. One of my friends theorizes that people are drawn to me because they can just tell I've got the strength to be there all the time. Then again, I usually hear all kinds of compliments when I'm least in the mood to accept them, but it's still good to know I'm seen as reliable, friendly, protective, and caring.

quote:

I'm seen as reliable, friendly, protective, and caring.

i think that is wonderful. but i'd venture the guess, maybe sexist here, it's easier to confide in a female than it is a male. those that know me, know, i am reliable. friendly? ehh i got my bad days. protective? define it. i keep my nose out of other's lives. caring? to a point. i care if you ask advice and i try to be open and honest, but what you do with it, not my concern.

_____________________________

"there is no gravity, life sucks!"

(in reply to CalliopePurple)

RE: "White Knight Syndrome" - 7/6/2005 6:14:14 AM

Posts: 3628
Joined: 9/26/2004
Status: offline

wow chris! marvelously stated, may I use your words--credited of course with 2 of My newbies Im teaching? I think this is so well stated--

_____________________________

SLUTS: Southern Ladies Under Tremendous Stress...

Mistress Hathor

(in reply to GoddessDustyGold)

RE: "White Knight Syndrome" - 7/6/2005 6:34:07 AM

Posts: 2117
Joined: 1/4/2005
From: Iowa
Status: offline

Mistress Hathor, thank you for such kind words.

You may certainly use what I wrote, but there is no reason to credit me. I didn't come up with anything original but simply pulled together thoughts that I have been exposed to over the years.

I am glad that you found those thoughts to be helpful.

(in reply to MHOO314)

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