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ORIGINAL: dark~angel

I would disagree - prophecy happens - not just in the past - but now. Or do you really believe that God just stopped His works through people? Are you in the belief with a certain sect of the church that miracles ended with the end of the apostles?
Have you ever seen a prophecy receieved and given out and/or seen it fullfilled? Seen Angels? Anything? Heard about it? Lived it vicariously? Or is it that your finite mind will not comprehend because you believe in the finite, because to believe in the infinite would mean having to accept Gods works?

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Disagree all you like, but to believe otherwise is anti-Biblical. The Bible very clearly states that there will be no more prophecies, no more speaking in tongues, no more signs until the end times

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The Bible very clearly states that there will be no more prophecies, no more speaking in tongues, no more signs until the end times.

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Anyone that tries to fool you into otherwise is a fraud.

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W/we were also warned that these people would come before the end times.

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BTW, by saying the universe is infinite I mean that as far as W/we know the universe has no limits. Nobody can comprehend this, and people are even now trying to prove that the opposite is true, else their big bang theory and theory that there is no God falls apart.

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Disagree all you like, but to believe otherwise is anti-Biblical.

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ORIGINAL: dark~angel

Prophecy is not something that stopped in the Hebrew Scriptures, nor did it stop after the ministry of Jesus or the writing of the book of revelation. The work of prophecy - the telling the words and will of God - is the vocation of every Christian. Prophecy is proclaiming the word of God - Jesus Christ to the world. Thats my understanding - my interetation for ME. It's not wrong, or anti biblical or any other fundemental, scientific, or literalist 'right' you throw at me. I am not asking you to accept it for yourself - I am sharing my view and asking to hear yours.

Peace and Love[/center][/font][/size]

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ORIGINAL: SirKenin



Disagree all you like, but to believe otherwise is anti-Biblical.
So thats an Athiest then?

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Once upon a time two explorers came upon a clearing in the jungle. In the clearing were growing many flowers and many weeds. One explorer says, 'Some gardener must tend this plot'. The other disagrees, 'There is no gardener'. So they pitch their tents and set a watch.

No gardener is ever seen. 'But perhaps he is an invisible gardener'. So they set up a barbed-wire fence. They electrify it. They patrol with bloodhounds. 1. (For they remember how H. G. Wells's Tbe Invisible Man could be both smelt and touched though he could not be seen.) But no shrieks ever suggest that some intruder has received a shock. No movements of the wire ever betray an invisible climber. The bloodhounds never give cry. Yet still the Believer is not convinced.

'But there is a gardener, invisible, intangible, insensible to electric shocks, a gardener who has no scent and makes no sound, a gardener who comes secretly to look after the garden which he loves'.

At last the Sceptic despairs, 'But what remains of your original assertion? just how does what you call an invisible, intangible, eternally elusive gardener differ from an imaginary gardener or even from no gardener at all?

...

Now it often seems to people who are not religious as if there was no conceivable event or series of events the occurrence of which would be admitted by sophisticated religious people to be a sufficient reason for conceding "there wasn't a God after all" or "God does not really love us then." Someone tells us that God loves us as a father loves his children. We are reassured. But then we see a child dying of inoperable cancer of the throat. His earthly father is driven frantic in his efforts to help, but his Heavenly Father reveals no obvious sign of concern. Some qualification is made — God's love is "not merely human love" or it is "an inscrutable love," perhaps — and we realize that such suffering are quite compatible with the truth of the assertion that "God loves us as a father (but of course…)." We are reassured again. But then perhaps we ask: what is this assurance of God's (appropriately qualified) love worth, what is this apparent guarantee really a guarantee against? Just what would have to happen . . . to entitle us to say "God does not love us" or even "God does not exist"? . . . What would have to occur or to have occurred to constitute for you a disproof of the love of, or the existence of, God?

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ORIGINAL: dark~angel

*yay*... I adore Antony Flew! Omgosh -

Recommending reading-

'Equality in Liberty and Justice'
'The Presumption of Atheism, and other philosophical essays on God, Freedom and Immortality'(thats harder to pick up)
'Power to the Parents: Reversing Educational Decline'

Peace and Love

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"I've never thought I knew that there was no God. I merely thought there is no sufficient reason that there is."

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ORIGINAL: kisshou

I wish I were better at analogies (maybe dark~angel will help me out).

In religion God is given a parental role because like a parent , God created us. (us meaning humans)

When God created us , God gave us paradise to live in.

Then God gave us a rule.

We (Adam/Eve) broke the rule.

This angered God. (if omnibenevolent means never getting angry , then God is not omnibenevolent)

Then God said 'you are now being punished leave paradise and suffer . (this explains war, poverty, death etc)

Then like alot of parents God realized we were not learning anything, so God decided to give us a second chance.

So since God really loves us , God sent Jesus to teach us.

If all of us lived like Jesus taught us, we would once again have paradise here.

Like parents with more than one child, God realized this would not be fair to punish both children, in case one child did as he was taught, but another child didn't.

So God gave us a time limit. If we (humans) have not shaped up by that time, God is going to end everything and then judge us all (including those who have already died). If we lived on earth as God taught us, we go to paradise. If not, we are up a creek without a paddle.

You might say that thousands of years is a long time for a punishment or you can look at it as God being really patient and loving by giving us alot of time to live like God taught us and re-establish paradise.

Like alot of parents, God believes in us and has hope for us and so is not giving up easily by just ending things quickly.

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ORIGINAL: EmeraldSlave2

If you are going to say that god accepts some bad things as being right, then you cancel out the idea that god is omnibenevolent.

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ORIGINAL: EmeraldSlave2
If god allows them, god causes them. God allowed sin to be created, god obviously felt it was the right thing to have in the world.

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If you are going to say that natural disasters are not acts of god, then you can't say for certain ANYTHING is an act of god, even creation, unless you are going to say that man is more powerful than god.

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ORIGINAL: domtimothy46176

The biblical God promises his believers pain and suffering throughout life and then a great eternity. His only promise to non-believers is eternal damnation.
Timothy

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ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

At least that's a more honest answer than what most people give.

Why do you believe? Unlike a lot of people who talk about God, I'm not trying to get you to abandon your faith or see things my way. Actually, I'm trying to understand how to see things YOUR way. I still don't get it, but I find it interesting that you believe even though you take the problems I mentioned seriously. Most people I know who believe in God just try to dismiss all the problems.

Lam

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ORIGINAL: kisshou

This was answered, the answer is 'I don't know'.

I could propose alot of theories though (is that what you want?)

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ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

See, I get the free-will argument. I don't get how it explains tsunamis.

There isn't a spot on earth where we could live without danger from earthquakes--and volcanos too, incidentally. We are on a living planet, and living planets have earthquakes and volcanos. (Planets that don't, like the moon, are dead.) Come to think of it, it's disturbing that God would force us to live on a planet where it's inevitable that innocent people will be killed.

I'm left with one of these three choices:

1. God doesn't give a shit.
2. God does give a shit, but can't do better.
3. God doesn't exist.

Edited to add: I agree with what perverseangelic said about you:

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I like reading your posts because you seem secure in your relationship with God and secure in the understanding that people disagreeing doesn't lessen your relationship.

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ORIGINAL: dark~angel

As for not respecting God who would make people die - it's not His responsibilty - nor choice. He had to give over to free will because that is what we chose. It's like a parent - when the child comes of age - you can keep digging them out of trouble and trying to save them - but no child will learn if you keep bailing them out. It would just become like some manipulation. Still not sure if I make much sense here.

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ORIGINAL: imtempting

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ORIGINAL: domtimothy46176

The biblical God promises his believers pain and suffering throughout life and then a great eternity. His only promise to non-believers is eternal damnation.
Timothy

This makes me wonder. I thought God forgives everyone so therefore how can one be condemmed? How can one go to hell?

Also people dont beleive these Priest that say they can heal the sick and heal disabled people as fakes and people making money. They do set ups etc to dis-proove them which prooves them as fakes. Why do people belief Jesus could do it?? when back in the times of Jesus it would of been easier to pull off....

Please explain why you think it is real? Do you just beleave because of everything your been told and the way your been brought up?

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ORIGINAL: domtimothy46176
The disciples of Jesus were hunted down and killed by the Jewish religous leaders at every opportunity.

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The easy way out would have been to refute the works and teachings of Jesus, rather than insisting on their veracity. Who would knowingly die defending a lie? It seems illogical to me.

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ORIGINAL: domtimothy46176

Perfect world is transformed into a world where man is challenged throughout his life by nature and evil and other men.