Collarchat.com

Join Our Community
Collarchat.com

Home  Login  Search 

RE: Heritage or Hate?


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid >> RE: Heritage or Hate? Page: <<   < prev  1 [2] 3 4 5   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: Heritage or Hate? - 9/18/2007 11:35:28 AM   
seeksfemslave


Posts: 4011
Joined: 6/16/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: itseeks
Living in West Virginia rebel flags are just about everywhere.My 13 year old son loves wearing shirts that show the flag . (...edited..)
My believe is there are many other slogans on shirts that are way more offensive than the rebel flag or am i wrong?

I know the North/South problem in the US still resonates but in answer to the second bit. No, you are not wrong IMO.
In the UK a popular slogan on shirts is FCUK,  just designed to shock me I think and worn by adolescent rebels who deserve a Tazerin' lol

Stands for French Connection U K.

(in reply to itseeks)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Heritage or Hate? - 9/18/2007 11:38:30 AM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

I grew up in suburban Atlanta and my family is from rural Alabama. I grew up around pervasive display of the so called "southern cross" and I can assure anyone and everyone reading this that the symbol was adopted as a reminder to the black population of who was in charge and what fate awaited any black who got uppity. That others now claim it as a symbol of southern pride is either total and complete ignorance of the facts or hypocrisy.

Just to avoid claims to the otherwise I'll now present the real facts about the flag:

1) It isn't the "Stars and Bars." That actually refers to the first official flag of the CSA which bears no resemblance at all to the one presently referred to that way.

2) The only possible use by the CSA of the rectangular flag with that design was on Confederate ships and even then the color scheme was different. The only flag with the right colors and design was the Confederate Battle Flag which was square. The flag now used is strictly a 20th century invention.

3) South Carolina started flying the flag over the Capitol building in 1962 and Georgia added it to their flag in 1956 both of which was during the early days of the Civil Rights movement and was pretty clearly in response to it.



Agreed. The transparent purpose of display today is to evoke the recent past, not pride in some long ago miliary conflict.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Heritage or Hate? - 9/18/2007 11:49:48 AM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: itseeks

Living in West Virginia rebel flags are just about everywhere.My 13 year old son loves wearing shirts that show the flag .He was told to turn his shirt inside out the other day in school because someone found it offensive.My son gets along with everyone(besides the teachers).He does not chose his friends by colors.My believe is there are many other slogans on shirts that are way more offensive than the rebel flag or am i wrong?


The last time I checked it's not against the law to "offend" someone.
We don't have the right to "not" be offended!
If it were me I'd tell the kid to wear the shirt again and if anyone in the school told him to take it off they and the school district would get a letter from my attorneys Shapiro, Whiplash and Shapiro.
I or anyone could easily be "offended" by walking through a shopping mall for an hour.
You should talk to a lawyer. This could be a violation of First Amendment rights. Maybe you can make some money!

< Message edited by popeye1250 -- 9/18/2007 11:51:25 AM >


_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to itseeks)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Heritage or Hate? - 9/18/2007 11:56:26 AM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline
My cousin lives in North Carolina (and he has lived there for years), and even he doesn't understand these types.

Didn't the Civil War end over 140 years ago? No offense to any Southern heritage types intended (truly).

In any case, IMO, any half-wit down there, should know by now, that some folks (many, in fact, according to my cousin) defininitely consider these symbols offensive (but maybe they don't care - and that is their whole point. I dunno).

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 9/18/2007 12:02:43 PM >


_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Heritage or Hate? - 9/18/2007 12:00:26 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

The last time I checked it's not against the law to "offend" someone.
We don't have the right to "not" be offended!
If it were me I'd tell the kid to wear the shirt again and if anyone in the school told him to take it off they and the school district would get a letter from my attorneys Shapiro, Whiplash and Shapiro.
I or anyone could easily be "offended" by walking through a shopping mall for an hour.
You should talk to a lawyer. This could be a violation of First Amendment rights. Maybe you can make some money!

It's fairly settled law that a school can force a student to not display offensive symbols on campus.

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Heritage or Hate? - 9/18/2007 12:06:45 PM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

quote:

ORIGINAL: itseeks

Living in West Virginia rebel flags are just about everywhere.My 13 year old son loves wearing shirts that show the flag .He was told to turn his shirt inside out the other day in school because someone found it offensive.My son gets along with everyone(besides the teachers).He does not chose his friends by colors.My believe is there are many other slogans on shirts that are way more offensive than the rebel flag or am i wrong?


The last time I checked it's not against the law to "offend" someone.
We don't have the right to "not" be offended!
If it were me I'd tell the kid to wear the shirt again and if anyone in the school told him to take it off they and the school district would get a letter from my attorneys Shapiro, Whiplash and Shapiro.
I or anyone could easily be "offended" by walking through a shopping mall for an hour.
You should talk to a lawyer. This could be a violation of First Amendment rights. Maybe you can make some money!


Your 'attorneys' might want to read up a little on the law regarding school's rights to overide some of the rights of students.  Tell them to start with  New Jersey v. TLO.

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Heritage or Hate? - 9/18/2007 12:29:56 PM   
ChicagoSwitchMal


Posts: 417
Joined: 9/9/2007
Status: offline
The First Amendment to the United States Constitution  prohibits the federal legislature from making laws that establish religion (the "Establishment Clause") or prohibit free exercise of religion (the "Free Exercise Clause"), laws that infringe the freedom of speech, infringe the freedom of the press, limit the right to assemble peaceably, or limit the right to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
The Federal Legislature did not tell this kid to put his shirt on inside out. His teacher did. This is not a free speech issue.

(in reply to Alumbrado)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Heritage or Hate? - 9/18/2007 12:37:09 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline
I am a racist, but few know what that means. Everybody thinks it means bigot, it does not.

I am absolutely non-religious, but few know what that means either. People think that means I am an athiest, but again, that is something different.

The Bible is full of wisdom, of that there is no doubt. To read it yourself, instead of the canned responses by preachers out of context, or quotes who knows where, you get an idea. It was written by some very wise Men. It condemns idolatry. With that I agree. In fact I agree with all the commandments, except that one should read "Thou shalt not murder". Except for that one word, they have a pretty good plan.

And you thought there were only two sides to the story. I have always conciously avoided pledging allegiance to the flag, because it is a piece of cloth, nothing more. If enemy forces reach our shores you won't have much doubt where my allegiance is.

The confederate flag is the same, nothing but a symbol. The problem is distinction, because really every time I hit a letter on my keyboard it produces a symbol on your screen. But then if I hit the "n" and then the "i" and then the "g" twice and then.....

We live in a world of highly emotional, unstable people with false egos. This means that those of us with intelligence and sensitivity must conciously avoid offending others. That is the proper message for the kids. For them to understand that the high road is to live peacably with others is paramount. This should be explained in detail.

In other words, the consequences imposed by authority figures is not the reason you try not to offend, the point is that one should give a damn about others' feelings and just not do certain things. The earlier they learn this the better.

Another point, few know that the peace sign is actually a Rune turned upside down. The Rune was the symbol or flag of some of the northern races who practiced Odinism. It was adopted by the National Alliance and is now considered a symbol of hate, which it is not. The National Alliance, while imploring members never to get violent, has a few problems. They extoll the virtues of the White race, which is fine, but they put down just about everybody else. That is why I am not a member.

What's more some stereotypes used to be true, but all that has faded away. We still have a long way to go. I would like to tell N_____ jokes to a Black person, Jew jokes to a Jew and so forth, but people are not yet ready for that. Perhaps I am superior in that I can enjoy a good Polack joke, really. Not too fond of the punch bowl one, but there are some good ones out there.

When someone is real, and has real worth, it is very hard to offend them. A symbol will not do it. There are exeptions to that as well, some feel so strongly about racism that any tinge of it sends them into a tizzy.

However we live in a society, and that means there are other people around. It is that simple. Does the kid wish to offend people ? Some do. It's a phase I guess.

But symbols, I dunno. The Nazis ADOPTED the swastika, they did not invent it. The National Alliance ADOPTED the Rune, they did not invent it. Both are seen as symbols of hate. Not that they are, they are just seen as symbols of hate. But when I type the letter "A", if you know English, your brain will interpret it in a certain way.

So there are more than two sides to this. Be it known that I shun symbolism almost totally. I have a small Confederate flag on my knickknack shelf, but not flying in front of my house. The term "good taste" comes to mind. When the north won, they fucked the south over really bad, and a southerner who has lived it has every right to teach his kids about it, and they have every right to fly whatever flag they want. To some, flying the US flag is flying the flag of the enemy. The thing is, some will be offended.

I was offended by a swastika once. The Nazis were a very proud bunch, what they did was and remains a milestone. Germany still reaps some benefits of that movement. What offended me was at the time I was riding a bus, and this teenager all duded up with Nazi garb and symbols didn't have the fare and wanted a free ride. What's more the bus driver was Black ! Come on, what kind of fucking stupidity does it take to........ never mind, it's regular stupidity. Needless to say the kid walked :-)

What about a shirt with a picture of a hand giving the middle finger ? That should offend everybody equally. I remember years ago there were shirts with a picture of a shit stain.

I do not engage in idolatry nor symbolism. I do not wear shirts nor any clothing that says anything. There are no symbols, trademarks or anything of the sort on any shirt I wear.

It's sad we have to have these guidelines because people are too thin skinned. Perhaps the Shamrock will eventually be considered offensive because back in the twelfth century or something they kicked someone's ass.

Boils down to this, if you wear a symbol you have made a statement without ever opening your mouth. These days, just don't do it. If there's anyone I hate, it is those who made it this way. No specific race, gender, orientation, anything of the sort. The only thing I have that resembles hate is for those who took our freedoms away.

Symbolism is wrong, that should be the message, not just SOME symbols are wrong.

T

(in reply to LotusSong)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Heritage or Hate? - 9/18/2007 12:42:57 PM   
Satyr6406


Posts: 820
Joined: 3/27/2006
From: New Brunswick, N.J.
Status: offline
Ya know, a lot of things I see and hear that are offensive to me.
 
When someone refers to me as "white boy" when: I am well over the age of majority, I've been a father since I was 14, I graduated High School, I raised my children a well as I could based upon my abilites, I served my country faithfully and honorably, and I treat other people with the common courtesy that every human being deserves.
 
First of all, contrary to appearances, I'm NOT white. Second of all, I am certainly not a "boy". Since I am not perceived to be a "member of a 'minority group', per se", my dislike for this kind of treatment is ignored and I am expected to "suck it up and drive on". That's what I do but, wouldn't it be nice if we didn't have multiple sets of rules, in this country that are based upon the color of our skin or where our grandparents came from? Wouldn't it be nice to treat all people as truly being equal?
 
My problem with this situation is that (I am sure) the people of the group who would be the "offended parties" are, frequently, given lattitude to, in turn, be a offensive to ome people as they feel is reasonably and I am expected to just "take a bite of that shit sandwich."
 
Sorry. We either need to start "enforcing" true equality or we need to go ahead and fight it out and see who the "top dog" is.
 
If certain words are offensive for me to say but, not offensive for others to say, it's ridiculous and it promotes separatist mentalities; instead of unity. Are we not all Americans? Don't we have better thing to do than to nit-pick and snipe at each other? Don't we hold ourselves up to be a symbol for how all the world should live? Maybe we should remove the beam from our eye before we point at a splinter in our neighbor's eye.
 
Lastly, I want equality but, I also want people to stop making a cottage industry out of being professional victims (Hello? Rev. Jackson? Are you listening?).
 
 
 
 
 
Peace and comfort,
 
 
 
 
 
Michael

_____________________________

Peace and comfort,


Michael


Former Vice-President Gore didn't invent the internet but, he DID make up global warming!

(in reply to Alumbrado)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Heritage or Hate? - 9/18/2007 12:49:35 PM   
Arpig


Posts: 9930
Joined: 1/3/2006
From: Increasingly further from reality
Status: offline
I don't find the "Rebel" flag offensive, but it does pretty much say "white trash" to me...and yes there are some folks here in Canada who fly it....go figure.

_____________________________

Big man! Pig Man!
Ha Ha...Charade you are!


Why do they leave out the letter b on "Garage Sale" signs?

CM's #1 All-Time Also-Ran


(in reply to MissSCD)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Heritage or Hate? - 9/18/2007 2:23:42 PM   
SeeksOnlyOne


Posts: 2012
Joined: 5/14/2007
Status: offline
i believe its a southern thing, and to me the flag means heritage and roots.....i dont have wild memories of slaves being beaten and wish to return to yesteryear when i hear elvis sing dixie, but i can get misty eyed....and i wont apologize for that....

the bans go in cycles here, and i admit, it chapped my ass when they were saying no rebel flags, yet the huge x of malcolm x was every where, in every color imaginable.....and shirts that talked about it being a black thing.....

some schools ban tupac shirts, anything with m on it as an initial, scarface is a huge no-no and will get turned inside out the first time-second, you go home...

they call it paradise, the place to be........or progress, or cultural sensitivity....some call it bullshit....(with apologies to the eagles)

what was the question?



_____________________________

it aint no good til it hurts just a little bit....jimmy somerville

in those moments of solitude, does everyone sometimes think they are insane? or is it just me?

(in reply to Arpig)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Heritage or Hate? - 9/18/2007 2:32:57 PM   
Blaakmaan


Posts: 374
Joined: 5/21/2007
Status: offline
well...

don't you ever wonder where the black/African-Amerian people are during these discussions that clearly touch on racial issues?

i certainly do.

i'm black (see my name).  my ancestors were slaves in this country.  the confederate flag symbolizes those who fought and died to preserve the institution of slavery.

the confederate flag is as offensive to me as a black man as the swastika is to a jewish person.

it's that simple.  point-blank.  the end.

(in reply to Arpig)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Heritage or Hate? - 9/18/2007 2:40:11 PM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline
And there ya have it........

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to Blaakmaan)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Heritage or Hate? - 9/18/2007 3:08:08 PM   
Satyr6406


Posts: 820
Joined: 3/27/2006
From: New Brunswick, N.J.
Status: offline
So, when a black person calls me "white boy" or says: "of course you're a racist. Look at the color of your skin!" What then? Should I NOT be offended? BULLSHIT!!!
 
If it is not right for me to treat people a certain way, based upon the color of their skin (and it isn't) then, it shouldn't be right for them to do the same thing. Case closed.
 
 
 
 
 
Peace and comfort,
 
 
 
 
 
Michael

_____________________________

Peace and comfort,


Michael


Former Vice-President Gore didn't invent the internet but, he DID make up global warming!

(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Heritage or Hate? - 9/18/2007 3:14:06 PM   
Blaakmaan


Posts: 374
Joined: 5/21/2007
Status: offline
now, SOMEBODY may know what that has to do with the confederate flag, but i confess, i do not.

if you find being called a "white boy" offensive, i suppose i can understand that.  i would find it offensive, at my age, to be called a boy of any color.

i don't think anybody said you should or shouldn't be offended by that.

and it doesn't speak to whether or not a confederate flag is offensive.  which it is!



(in reply to Satyr6406)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Heritage or Hate? - 9/18/2007 3:15:53 PM   
SeeksOnlyOne


Posts: 2012
Joined: 5/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Blaakmaan

well...

don't you ever wonder where the black/African-Amerian people are during these discussions that clearly touch on racial issues?

i certainly do.

i'm black (see my name).  my ancestors were slaves in this country.  the confederate flag symbolizes those who fought and died to preserve the institution of slavery.

the confederate flag is as offensive to me as a black man as the swastika is to a jewish person.

it's that simple.  point-blank.  the end.



it means that to you.......and i defend your right for it to mean that....i thought about getting something with a confederate flag on it, a tag, just because i got a new red pick up and thought man that would look awesome......but so far i have not gotten one, because i work for the school system, and i am sure some of the folks i work with would be offended by it....

but it does rattle my cage to have a stigma attached to something i see as red white and blue, just like old glory......when to me it is something i have seen all my life, and adore because it screams southern. 

i respect your feelings, and who knoews, had i been born black, i might be so angry about the history, id be protesting every weekend, but i cant see the world through your eyes.

its a complex world we live in, and i thank you for making me think....and i hope this came off with respect, because that is how it is typed. (i have started using italics for sarcasm, i swear)

< Message edited by SeeksOnlyOne -- 9/18/2007 3:16:31 PM >


_____________________________

it aint no good til it hurts just a little bit....jimmy somerville

in those moments of solitude, does everyone sometimes think they are insane? or is it just me?

(in reply to Blaakmaan)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Heritage or Hate? - 9/18/2007 3:20:50 PM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline
Couldn't you just get a bottle of RC Cola with some peanuts in it and use that as a hood ornament to show your connection to the South?


< Message edited by Alumbrado -- 9/18/2007 3:24:11 PM >

(in reply to SeeksOnlyOne)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Heritage or Hate? - 9/18/2007 3:21:26 PM   
seeksfemslave


Posts: 4011
Joined: 6/16/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Blaakmaan

i'm black (see my name).  my ancestors were slaves in this country.  the confederate flag symbolizes those who fought and died to preserve the institution of slavery.
the confederate flag is as offensive to me as a black man as the swastika is to a jewish person.
it's that simple.  point-blank.  the end.

They were slaves or at least oppressed and traded  by "blaakmeenn" in Africa too. Did you know that ? Does it matter ?

(in reply to Blaakmaan)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Heritage or Hate? - 9/18/2007 3:23:47 PM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

quote:

ORIGINAL: Blaakmaan

i'm black (see my name).  my ancestors were slaves in this country.  the confederate flag symbolizes those who fought and died to preserve the institution of slavery.
the confederate flag is as offensive to me as a black man as the swastika is to a jewish person.
it's that simple.  point-blank.  the end.

They were slaves or at least oppressed and traded  by "blaakmeenn" in Africa too. Did you know that ? Does it matter ?


Not when it comes to whether or not the 'rebel' flag, adopted in the 1950s as a symbol of support for segregation in the guise of 'state's rights', is offensive .

(in reply to seeksfemslave)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Heritage or Hate? - 9/18/2007 3:33:26 PM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Satyr6406

So, when a black person calls me "white boy" or says: "of course you're a racist. Look at the color of your skin!" What then? Should I NOT be offended? BULLSHIT!!!
 
If it is not right for me to treat people a certain way, based upon the color of their skin (and it isn't) then, it shouldn't be right for them to do the same thing. Case closed.
 
 
 
 
 
Peace and comfort,
 
 
 
 
 
Michael


How often does this really happen?  I have never had anyone who was black ever refer to me as "whiteboy"....Or  say anything like..."Look at the color of your skin, of course you are a rascist."....Maybe they were jealous because you are so dreamy?...Did you ever take that into consideration?

_____________________________



(in reply to Satyr6406)
Profile   Post #: 40
Page:   <<   < prev  1 [2] 3 4 5   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid >> RE: Heritage or Hate? Page: <<   < prev  1 [2] 3 4 5   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2024
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.053