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RE: The ideal femdom fllm - 2/10/2008 4:45:49 PM   
Griswold


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ShaktiSama

Sorry, had to check the profile to make sure that wasn't a male dominant post--sounded so much like half the porn I've seen, right down to the moronic agreement with whatever a man says and the hideous fake breasts.


(There is no such thing, when discussing breasts, as "too large")

And for that matter...why the heck do you think God invented silicone in the first place?????

< Message edited by Griswold -- 2/10/2008 4:47:04 PM >

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RE: The ideal femdom fllm - 2/10/2008 5:05:17 PM   
MystressDream


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What my company produces doesn't really fall into the "movie" title.... or the "porn" one either, for that matter.  We don't use actors... or corny scripts... or fake anything.  What we produce is real people doing real scenes.  If you would like to see what we do and how it comes out, go to the Enclave Productions website in my signature lines.  We take real people in the BDSM scene here in Denver and film them for those who wish to watch a real scene without the Hollywood crap overlay.  Several of them are FemDom.... but, not all.
 
As you will see from the previews, we are not "bitch from hell" Dommes.  <chuckle>

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RE: The ideal femdom fllm - 2/11/2008 9:29:44 AM   
Wheldrake


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I don't watch a huge amount of porn, femdom or otherwise, but I wouldn't be at all put off by a female-directed movie that focused on a male submissive and his reactions. I might enjoy imagining myself in the submissive's place, but the main factor would be that I'm erotically fascinated by what goes on inside the heads of dominant women. In a sense, the camera would be a window into dominant female sexual fantasies, or at least into a fantasy that one particular woman came up with and thought would be worth sharing with others. And that's intrinsically sexy, in my humble opinion. I'd be curious to know if other submissive men agree.

I know the movie is supposed to appeal to women, not to us boys, so I'll spare everyone my list of the thousand and one things I think it would be hot to include. However, I want to second Ms. C. from Melbourne's point about real-looking women who are obviously having a good time being the ideal on-camera dominants. And the movie would be a lot more interesting and engaging if it included a bit of story and context, and showed the hapless male victim(s?) slowly descending into submission instead of starting off in that situation.

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RE: The ideal femdom fllm - 2/11/2008 10:23:58 AM   
AAkasha


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Thanks for all the responses.  Very interesting! 
I think one of the challenges is that some of what appears on the "wish list" for people just isn't feasible for this kind of production, strictly from a budget standpoint.  How to capture the feel that it is a "relationship" - for example - is all a function of character development, script and plot - all which cost money.  I am not a filmmaker by trade but work close enough to the industry to know the ridiculously high costs of production for anything of value - or, the tradeoff, which is a ridiculously high volunteered amount of *time*, another asset that is in short supply.   So the hopes of a plot driven, multi-set, romantically or relationship-driven storyline with believable actors is a little out of the realm of possibility.

But all the rest is very doable :)
Akasha


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RE: The ideal femdom fllm - 2/11/2008 7:49:34 PM   
petdave


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Maybe it's just me, but i'm of the opinion that a "storyline" is really a go big or go home deal in erotic/fetish movies... If the focus is the "action", then all the storyline you really need is "these people are into each other, and they're going to have some fun"... A thin plot with poorly-delivered dialogue is more distraction than anything else. 

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RE: The ideal femdom fllm - 2/11/2008 10:12:39 PM   
AAkasha


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quote:

ORIGINAL: petdave

Maybe it's just me, but i'm of the opinion that a "storyline" is really a go big or go home deal in erotic/fetish movies... If the focus is the "action", then all the storyline you really need is "these people are into each other, and they're going to have some fun"... A thin plot with poorly-delivered dialogue is more distraction than anything else. 


What bdsm films have you seen that have a great storyline?
Keep in mine, a feature film with a hint of bdsm isn't what this is budgeted as.  So I am curious what bonafide "porn" has a good plot that's out there.

Akasha


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RE: The ideal femdom fllm - 2/11/2008 11:56:57 PM   
sodsta


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I'm going to agree with what someone said earlier - I think taking erotic Femdom fiction (like some of your stuff) and translating it onto film would work quite well. For some reason, the story of yours that leaps instantly into my mind with that idea is "What Happens to College Boys". I think that work really well in film, it would focus mainly on the sub, and the Domme wouldn't have to be a supermodel.   I don't know if I'm in the minority here, as a male sub, but I'd love to see more Femdom videos that focused more on the sub and his reactions... most of the videos on places like meninpain are insanely boring to me. *shrug*

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RE: The ideal femdom fllm - 2/12/2008 4:43:49 AM   
MissLily


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hmmm, I would love for the bottom to be a powerfull man. Strong and dignified attitude. Weak subs just turn Me off...

Miss Lily

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RE: The ideal femdom fllm - 2/12/2008 5:51:47 AM   
petdave


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quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

What bdsm films have you seen that have a great storyline?
Keep in mine, a feature film with a hint of bdsm isn't what this is budgeted as.  So I am curious what bonafide "porn" has a good plot that's out there.

Akasha



Understood... i think the issue is more that i can't think of any BDSM films that have had a storyline that actually added anything. Since the standard is just as you're describing- limited budget, geared towards prurient interests rather than winning film awards- the plot ends up being the kink equivalent of "Hi, I'm here to deliver the pizza, oh, you'd like to give me a blowjob as a tip? Sweet". i'm sure you have the writing chops to pull off the story, but then the issue is finding actors who can both bring in a believable D/s scene and deliver the setup without sounding painfully awkward (and without needing a million takes). 

It could just be that the plot in F/m films almost always ends up being used as a set-up for verbal abuse/humiliation, which is not my thing But all the examples i can think of range from *yawn* *fast-forward* to "For the love of all that is holy, please shut up already!" *fast-forward*

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RE: The ideal femdom fllm - 2/12/2008 7:03:04 AM   
thetammyjo


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Hi, everyone, I'm back for a while I think. (tired from visits and flights)


quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

I'm curious what femdoms would like to see in a bdsm film? What do you feel is missing from het bdsm films? Remember, the quality and style is still limited, it's still going to be simply a bdsm film - which means thin on plot and acting ability, thin on sets and backdrops, and ultimately the focus is still on the kinky acts. Also, no intercourse + bondage. It's going to be straight S&M topping/bottoming.



Unfortunately those limits mean that it won't be any sort of ideal in my book.

I just don't find watching others do SM to be all that interesting.

But I know there is a market out there for that, I'm just not the target audience.




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RE: The ideal femdom fllm - 2/12/2008 8:16:55 AM   
AAkasha


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quote:

ORIGINAL: petdave

quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

What bdsm films have you seen that have a great storyline?
Keep in mine, a feature film with a hint of bdsm isn't what this is budgeted as.  So I am curious what bonafide "porn" has a good plot that's out there.

Akasha



Understood... i think the issue is more that i can't think of any BDSM films that have had a storyline that actually added anything. Since the standard is just as you're describing- limited budget, geared towards prurient interests rather than winning film awards- the plot ends up being the kink equivalent of "Hi, I'm here to deliver the pizza, oh, you'd like to give me a blowjob as a tip? Sweet". i'm sure you have the writing chops to pull off the story, but then the issue is finding actors who can both bring in a believable D/s scene and deliver the setup without sounding painfully awkward (and without needing a million takes). 

It could just be that the plot in F/m films almost always ends up being used as a set-up for verbal abuse/humiliation, which is not my thing But all the examples i can think of range from *yawn* *fast-forward* to "For the love of all that is holy, please shut up already!" *fast-forward*



It's not that no one wants to do it, it's that it's too expensive to make.  A plotline and characters you care about require two big budget items that don't exist in porn:  actors and a script.  Oh, and locations; although a really strong script and strong actors can carry a script with limited sets/locations - but again, then you are paying mainstream prices for a niche porn, even MORE niche because it's femdom porn.

Akasha


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Don't email me here, email me at [email protected]

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RE: The ideal femdom fllm - 2/12/2008 11:57:23 AM   
Wheldrake


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quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

It's not that no one wants to do it, it's that it's too expensive to make.  A plotline and characters you care about require two big budget items that don't exist in porn:  actors and a script.  Oh, and locations; although a really strong script and strong actors can carry a script with limited sets/locations - but again, then you are paying mainstream prices for a niche porn, even MORE niche because it's femdom porn.

Akasha



An intricate storyline full of twists, turns and subplots might be well beyond the scope of a porn film, but providing even a bit of context (a very few minutes of screen time) for the kinky action might add a lot. To illustrate the kind of thing I mean…  

A young man walks up to the front door of an old house, checks his watch, then looks over his shoulder as if he’s thinking of bolting in the opposite direction. After a moment he draws himself up, rings the doorbell, and fidgets nervously until the door is opened a moment later by a plump, dark-haired woman a bit older than himself.  

Woman: You must be Martin. It’s a pleasure to meet you in the flesh.
Man: I’m glad to meet you too. You’re a lot prettier than you looked in the photo. I mean – hell, that didn’t come out right. I’m a bit nervous about this.
W: I don’t blame you, Martin. I wasn’t sure you were going to turn up at all. Did you read my instructions carefully?
M: Yes. More than once. [Touching his pocket] I remembered to bring –
W: Though you’ve apparently forgotten how I said I wanted to be addressed.
M: I’m awfully sorry, ma’am. I’ll remember from now on. Are you going to, um, punish me?
W: Martin, I realise that you’re new to this, and I’m not expecting you to be perfect. But I want to make sure you understand your role this afternoon, and what you’re getting into.
M: I understand, ma’am. I’m ready… [he looks down, and then up, meeting her eyes] I’m ready to serve you.
W: Even though it may be somewhat uncomfortable for you?
M: Yes, ma’am. I’m prepared for that.
W: And painful? Humiliating? [dropping to a near whisper] I might just do some of the things you told me you were afraid of, Martin. Are you sure you want to come inside?
M: Yes, I’m sure. And I’m ready.
W: [with a slight laugh] Oh, I doubt that very much.  

She steps back, making room for him to enter, and motions a bit curtly with her head. As he steps inside she reaches into her pocket, and we see the flash of handcuffs just before the door closes…  

Even if that falls into the “please shut up already!” category, at least it’s a fairly brief bit of dialogue that introduces the characters, establishes a few simple facts about them, and drops a couple of hints to be followed up later. Maybe this kind of thing seems superfluous to some people, but I find that giving the characters just a bit of individuality makes the subsequent action between them a lot more interesting.  

I can’t imagine that generating a script would be much of a problem for a writer of your ability, even if it required a bit of tweaking by someone familiar with the conventions of screenwriting. And it wouldn’t have to demand a huge emotional range from the actors. But of course, it’s your movie, and I’ll stop trying to tell you how to make it! I for one can't wait to see what you come up with.


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RE: The ideal femdom fllm - 2/12/2008 12:18:03 PM   
AAkasha


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Wheldrake

quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

It's not that no one wants to do it, it's that it's too expensive to make.  A plotline and characters you care about require two big budget items that don't exist in porn:  actors and a script.  Oh, and locations; although a really strong script and strong actors can carry a script with limited sets/locations - but again, then you are paying mainstream prices for a niche porn, even MORE niche because it's femdom porn.

Akasha



An intricate storyline full of twists, turns and subplots might be well beyond the scope of a porn film, but providing even a bit of context (a very few minutes of screen time) for the kinky action might add a lot. To illustrate the kind of thing I mean…  

A young man walks up to the front door of an old house, checks his watch, then looks over his shoulder as if he’s thinking of bolting in the opposite direction. After a moment he draws himself up, rings the doorbell, and fidgets nervously until the door is opened a moment later by a plump, dark-haired woman a bit older than himself.  

Woman: You must be Martin. It’s a pleasure to meet you in the flesh.
Man: I’m glad to meet you too. You’re a lot prettier than you looked in the photo. I mean – hell, that didn’t come out right. I’m a bit nervous about this.
W: I don’t blame you, Martin. I wasn’t sure you were going to turn up at all. Did you read my instructions carefully?
M: Yes. More than once. [Touching his pocket] I remembered to bring –
W: Though you’ve apparently forgotten how I said I wanted to be addressed.
M: I’m awfully sorry, ma’am. I’ll remember from now on. Are you going to, um, punish me?
W: Martin, I realise that you’re new to this, and I’m not expecting you to be perfect. But I want to make sure you understand your role this afternoon, and what you’re getting into.
M: I understand, ma’am. I’m ready… [he looks down, and then up, meeting her eyes] I’m ready to serve you.
W: Even though it may be somewhat uncomfortable for you?
M: Yes, ma’am. I’m prepared for that.
W: And painful? Humiliating? [dropping to a near whisper] I might just do some of the things you told me you were afraid of, Martin. Are you sure you want to come inside?
M: Yes, I’m sure. And I’m ready.
W: [with a slight laugh] Oh, I doubt that very much.  

She steps back, making room for him to enter, and motions a bit curtly with her head. As he steps inside she reaches into her pocket, and we see the flash of handcuffs just before the door closes…  

Even if that falls into the “please shut up already!” category, at least it’s a fairly brief bit of dialogue that introduces the characters, establishes a few simple facts about them, and drops a couple of hints to be followed up later. Maybe this kind of thing seems superfluous to some people, but I find that giving the characters just a bit of individuality makes the subsequent action between them a lot more interesting.  

I can’t imagine that generating a script would be much of a problem for a writer of your ability, even if it required a bit of tweaking by someone familiar with the conventions of screenwriting. And it wouldn’t have to demand a huge emotional range from the actors. But of course, it’s your movie, and I’ll stop trying to tell you how to make it! I for one can't wait to see what you come up with.




Thank you..but I think screenwriters add so much.  And then there's lighting, and music - so many elements go into what make a "film" good, and the budget for "porn" does not allow for that -- that's the reality.  The one thing I keep coming back to though is the use of "actors" vs. "kinky people."  I had an in depth conversation with a kinky producer about this, about why so many kinky flicks fall flat, and it's bad acting.  Acting, as a skill, is a lot harder than it seems - and most 'porn stars' are not actors.  Granted, I have not watched a ton of porn, but enough to know what bad acting is!    Even if a kinky person should come across more natural because it's what they do - and they are just doing what comes natural - it's still hard to capture with the interruptions and disruptions related to filming.  Whereas an actor, per se, might have the skill set required to compensate for that.  Brings up an entirely different set of challenges though.

But I am definitely up for the challenge :)
Akasha


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RE: The ideal femdom fllm - 2/12/2008 12:53:40 PM   
ShaktiSama


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I would agree with others who say that your own writing skills are more than good enough to cope with the scripting challenge.  The issue is not the script, but finding performers who can do it justice AND perform and emote the way they need to, for a good erotic piece.

This combination of skills is really not all that common and it probably does not come cheap. 

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RE: The ideal femdom fllm - 2/12/2008 12:56:58 PM   
AAkasha


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ShaktiSama

I would agree with others who say that your own writing skills are more than good enough to cope with the scripting challenge.  The issue is not the script, but finding performers who can do it justice AND perform and emote the way they need to, for a good erotic piece.

This combination of skills is really not all that common and it probably does not come cheap. 


Ahh you summed it up so well: Finding someone who can "emote" the way they need to.  That's really what it comes down to for me.  And some men do it and others don't - but you can't work around that with a script or camera angles.I am not sure if you photograph submissive men, but if you do, do you find that challenge as well? 

Akasha


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RE: The ideal femdom fllm - 2/12/2008 1:00:47 PM   
ShaktiSama


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No, honestly, I don't find it a problem, but this is because I never impose a role on a model which is not natural to him or her.  Generally people volunteer to be photographed in the setting, costumes, and acts that they themselves find erotic, so the energy flows from a real source--not artifice.

From a professional standpoint, I would suggest that the people you cast be men with whom you as the director feel some personal chemsitry--mutual attraction, and at least a hint of genuinely submissive nature which you can bring out on film.

Part of what people will see reflected in their eyes is your own dominant presence.  Make sure it shows! 

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-- Robert A. Heinlein

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RE: The ideal femdom fllm - 2/12/2008 3:07:46 PM   
detroitsearcher


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well if you are talking about quality american het BDSM porn, well forget about what exists. most of it is as original as the 9th season of full house.

great FemDom BDSM videos not just focused on the awesome fetish clothing:
the Maria Beatty films from the 90s (the Elegant Spanking is a classic), Irene Boss' oeuvre, and the English Mansion.

how about BDSM erotica instead?

focusing on the deep emotional / psychological interplay. something that shows what chastity really does to a sub. something reflecting your fiction style, where you lay out your devious psychological plan, and set it in motion and we get to see how it effects both the bottom and the top, the struggles for the bottom, the sadistic joys of the top.

things that are missing to me:

- lighting. think film noir versus an american sitcom. we want film noir. double indemnity quality level.
- passage of time - does every video have to be a straight hour of time?
different times, passage of time might be interesting
- use of music - quality music please.
- sound mix (why is it always so hard to hear the erotic breathy talk when a scene is hot, but the sound of the impact of the implement is impossibly loud - clipping even)
- actual chemistry between the players
- an actual highly talented sub, the kind you would want to see in a movie, a role model
- Domme has to be a real experienced and skilled Domme
- really good dialog

just doing this approach including atmosphere and the iconic psychological side that you are already uniquely gifted in expressing, then you should have a quality project.

btw, can you suggest some gay titles where the bottoming is exceptional?

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RE: The ideal femdom fllm - 2/12/2008 9:03:34 PM   
undergroundsea


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From my experience in arranging and then doing fetish shows, simply doing a scene does not always do the trick. I think it has to be a mix of a scene and a performance or something about the scene has to capture the audience--if you watch scenes done by people like Midori or Fifth Angel, you get such a sense.

I think there is plenty of talent within the BDSM community. I can immediately think of 3 actors and a few others who are professionally involved in the film business who are part of local or nearby BDSM communities. I can think of more yet who are not actors by profession but have put up impressive performances in skits or plays I have seen.

Cheers,

Sea

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RE: The ideal femdom fllm - 2/12/2008 9:26:00 PM   
AAkasha


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quote:

ORIGINAL: detroitsearcher


btw, can you suggest some gay titles where the bottoming is exceptional?


The films I have seen produced by Grapik Art Productions have great bottoms, I have a few of their titles. I think some of the bottoms at http://extremeboyz.com/ do very well - especially Tal in his earlier work.  I don't think you will find either examples without paying for them.  I think the bottoms at www.tieguyuk.com are often quite good, much more on the playful side.  Also on the pay side though.  I'll have to dig through my collection to see what others stand out.

I can probably find a few mainstream youtube clips that capture more what I am thinking about.

Akasha


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Don't email me here, email me at [email protected]

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RE: The ideal femdom fllm - 2/13/2008 11:49:18 AM   
detroitsearcher


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thanks for those references. will you please post links to a few of those mainstream youtube clips?


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