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He loves you too much to beat you. - 5/15/2008 9:14:34 AM

Leatherist

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I find this rather interesting. Things that fall apart due to someone losing thier ability to be sadistic or Dominate out of falling in love. I can sort of understand why it happens, I just cannot really identify with it.

Do you think that perhaps some people have to be remote or objectify someone to do this sort of thing with them,and once thay are forced to see someone as an actual person-they can't do it any more?

I tend to go the other way-the more intimate I get, the more freedom to go further I feel-not less.

What are your thoughts?

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RE: He loves you too much to beat you. - 5/15/2008 9:27:17 AM

KatyLied

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quote:

the more intimate I get, the more freedom to go further I feel-not less.

Same here. I thought the whole idea of increasing intimacy was so that you could more fully explore and accept the person you are, at the core of you being. Isn't that the beauty of it? The beauty is in finding someone who can accept those things.

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RE: He loves you too much to beat you. - 5/15/2008 9:28:22 AM

missturbation

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My thought is - he better love me enough to hurt me.

Seriously though i think

quote:

Do you think that perhaps some people have to be remote or objectify someone to do this sort of thing with them,and once thay are forced to see someone as an actual person-they can't do it any more?

thats probably spot on.

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RE: He loves you too much to beat you. - 5/15/2008 9:37:36 AM

Leatherist

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quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

quote:

the more intimate I get, the more freedom to go further I feel-not less.

Same here. I thought the whole idea of increasing intimacy was so that you could more fully explore and accept the person you are, at the core of you being. Isn't that the beauty of it? The beauty is in finding someone who can accept those things.

With things like humiliation play-sadism, et al......I find it very freeing and comforting to be able to share those with someone who finds them erotic and thrilling. Which is the opposite of what "polite society" feels on the matter. I think it comes back to my theory on the "bubble universe" with bdsm.

The partners develop a "safe zone" together, and it's a very intensely pleasurable place to be in-unless you allow the outside world to burst your bubble.

And why it feels like these is a "hole" when it ends.

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RE: He loves you too much to beat you. - 5/15/2008 10:02:25 AM

MusicalBoredom

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This has happened with me once. I had a submissive that I truly loved. We worked well together in both personal and sexual areas. Her one lifestyle issue was that in certain moods, she could be topped by the threat and willingness to completely abandon her. She had other issues (that she was working on with professionals) that in my opinion caused her harm if I topped her in that way. As a result I refused to top her in that manner which led to us not being able to play so well. Had we not been so intimate I would not have know about the issues she had and probably would have gone down any road that seemed consensual.

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RE: He loves you too much to beat you. - 5/15/2008 10:08:39 AM

Leatherist

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MusicalBoredom

This has happened with me once. I had a submissive that I truly loved. We worked well together in both personal and sexual areas. Her one lifestyle issue was that in certain moods, she could be topped by the threat and willingness to completely abandon her. She had other issues (that she was working on with professionals) that in my opinion caused her harm if I topped her in that way. As a result I refused to top her in that manner which led to us not being able to play so well. Had we not been so intimate I would not have know about the issues she had and probably would have gone down any road that seemed consensual.

Nodding, I can see valid reasons for backing off where harm could be done. But not for conforming to a social stereotype.

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RE: He loves you too much to beat you. - 5/15/2008 10:20:15 AM

Cuffkinks

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I went through that the first time I had to take the cane to My little girl. This was early in our relationship.
(As a side note...I believe there is a difference between "wanted" to and "had" to. In this case, I had to. Also...The only time I use the cane is for punishment. I like the association of one specific item to punishment.)
Anyway...I used the cane on her and after I was done she was crying and sobbing terribly. I thought perhaps I'd gone too far. I actually had a moment of remorse. Of course I provided all the necessary aftercare and made sure she was ok.
It took a little while, but I came to realize that she needs Me to be able to discipline her, harshly if necessary. Mind what I'm saying here...Not that she needs discipline. Quite the contrary. She's a very good girl. But that she needs Me to be able to discipline her. She needs My strength of will, My firmness, and My consistency in order to put her trust in Me and know that she's safe.
Through open, honest, communication we were able to establish mutual trust and put those feeling of remorse on My part to rest. That was about two years ago and we're still enjoying everyday of what has become the best relationship, vanilla or otherwise, that either of us has ever been in.
She craves and enjoys hard use, and I'm jut too happy to deliver it. Although I do play with her and use her harshly, I can't remember the last time I "had" to take out the cane. But if I ever have to...I will do so without the slightest hesitation.

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RE: He loves you too much to beat you. - 5/15/2008 10:27:34 AM

DesFIP

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Not sadistic but dominant. We've had this. As he came to know me and love me deeper, he has had trouble sometimes being forceful enough because he could see that it was causing me emotional upset and/or conflicts. Since he doesn't want me upset or conflicted he has upon occasion not pushed hard enough and allowed the situation itself to hurt me. However since we now have been together five years, we've both seen the results of these occasions and are beginning to realize that he should push anyway to avoid the situation coming back to bite me in the ass.

For example, I had to go away for a day. I thought to leave my car at the train station and pick it up that same night. I knew the situation could easily turn into an overnight. It turned into four nights with my car potentially being in a bad part of town all that time. He had thought it would be better to drop me off at the train station and having to interrupt his day to pick me up. Instead he needed to go retrieve my car and get it to a safe place. As a result he was interrupted twice, once by having to get my car while an adult offspring drove his, and the second time to pick me up at the station after which I returned with him to where his vehicle was. I meant well by not accepting the lift, but it wound up being worse. Plus when I got back I was in such poor shape that the drive from where his car was nearly did me in.

And I had such good intentions all the time, refusing help because I didn't want to interrupt his day!

But we're both slowly learning and the relationship goes on.

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RE: He loves you too much to beat you. - 5/15/2008 10:31:26 AM

Owner4SexSlave

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I'm just going to quote myself from a post I made on another thread..

I simply have come to a different understanding and view on what it is besides some feeling fluttering around inside my chest. I really did not understand the many different kinds of love there is.   The dynamics of love somewhat confused me for awhile in life as well.

In terms of M/s or D/s or whatever else, there is room for love.  It's acceptable to me to inflict pain upon somebody I love, because I myself have a slight maso streak.  If you love me, you'll flog my back for me.   Some people can't wrap get into the headspace of doing painful, abusive things to somebody they love. They feel like they are dishing out true or real abuse. If you are indeed in love with somebody who is a masochist, inflicting pain upon them takes on a deeper meaning in expressing your love for them.   Where the stinging sensation of a flogger carries the same meaning as a deep passionate kiss. For me it's easier to indentify and relate to this mindset since I have a slight maso streak.

There is a difference in my emotional state of mind, when I'm doing things to somebody I love and somebody I do not love. One actually feels more spiritual and connected to the other person.  One feels a little more internalized, distant and somewhat cold. Between the two, one actually almost feels like an amazing high.   Many people talk about subspace, but there also is a matter of Dom head space as well.   We are doing some pretty intense things to another human being.   Our own intenal limits to what we can do, will do, or will not do. In many ways, we literally surrender our humanity over to a darker side. It becomes a matter of self trust when you are handing somebody you truely love to your dark side.   Your humanity is screaming at you no no no! this is not right.   You totally have to rewrap your mind around things.   Not only does the person you love have to trust you, you have to trust yourself, and you have to trust in the person you love.   If you don't trust yourself enough to feed her to your dark side, it ain't happening.

I can honestly understand why Love can and does stand in the way for some people engaging in BDSM. However it's a limit that can be worked past, provided you are willing and are able to reprogram your own mind.

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RE: He loves you too much to beat you. - 5/15/2008 10:32:02 AM

BlackPhx

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Been on the recieving end of this and hated every second of it, to the point I went searching for a new Dom. I am fortunate that Master needs the sadism as much as I need the pain and that he understands that no matter how much we love each other being able to fulfill this need is a part of that love. Our sexualtiy is a portion of who we are, each and every one of us, it may not be active from time to time, but ultimately those needs have to be met, if not physically, at least emotionally or psychologically. If they are not, the relationship is often in deep trouble. When someone "loves" us too much to answer those needs or allow us to answer the needs they have, can they truly be said to love us? We want those we love to be happy and healthy and that means meeting needs, even the hard ones.

poenkitten (praying Master never loves her so much that he can't hurt her in the ways she needs to be happy and healthy)

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RE: He loves you too much to beat you. - 5/15/2008 10:35:43 AM

kyraofMists

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I don't understand this mindset at all. In our relationship he is more sadistic with Alandra and I because of how much he loves us. Just this past weekend he did a play with me that he knew I would hate. The more I cried and pleaded, the more he enjoyed it. I think he laughed through almost the entire thing because I hated it so much.

I can appreciate this mindset from a punishment angle, but not in regards to play.

Knight's Kyra

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RE: He loves you too much to beat you. - 5/15/2008 10:42:38 AM

Leatherist

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I initially found and interesting duality in myself. One that grew less divided with increasing time and experience with slaves and masochists-both physical and emotional. In short, I had to learn to trust my partner's abilty to be transparent in expressing themselves to me-especially in uncloaked emotive terms. I needed to be able to cut loose progressively over time,and see thier reactions to what I was experimenting with. As my comfort zone expnaded,so did my abilities to take them to new places. And vica versa.

Some things I can do are intensely evil feeling and sadistic. I really do just see someone as a piece of meat at those times. Because that is both what is desired, for THIER rush, and it gives them a thrill to see me go that reptilian.

And to be blunt, it's just amusing to be that callous an asshole-and get thanked for it profusely later on.

Makes me laugh..

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RE: He loves you too much to beat you. - 5/15/2008 12:07:57 PM

lizcgirl

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Joined: 4/13/2008
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quote:

It took a little while, but I came to realize that she needs Me to be able to discipline her, harshly if necessary. Mind what I'm saying here...Not that she needs discipline. Quite the contrary. She's a very good girl. But that she needs Me to be able to discipline her. She needs My strength of will, My firmness, and My consistency in order to put her trust in Me and know that she's safe.

I agree with this whole heartedly. I need some one who is going to be strong enough and consistant enough to discipline me no matter how long we've been together. I get more comfortable the longer I'm with some one and more willing to try new things, I don't think I could be happy if the relationship went backwards instead of forwards over time, if that makes sense. It would make me sad to have an amazingly satisfying relationship that turned vanilla because He cared too much for me.... it just seems illogical to me.

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RE: He loves you too much to beat you. - 5/15/2008 1:36:22 PM

daddysliloneds

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i don't know what is the cause of it, but i know it sucks!!!!!!!!!

i have found that generally speaking, people that have an internal conflict with their sadistic side from the get-go, are usually the ones who when becoming emotionally involved/in love with me, can't hurt me anymore...

last one used to try his damdest to convince me that we don't always have to do pain play; that it can be just as much fun/good if we were lovey-dovey/vanilla acting in most things even though i knew for me it was much, much more than that...

i'm a tried and true masochist; it's a need, not just a want, and i'm accustomed to the man who loves me hurting me as an act of love, not the other way around!

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RE: He loves you too much to beat you. - 5/15/2008 2:28:39 PM

Lashra

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My malesub is a masochist. I view it as something that he needs and if he can't get it from me then I'm not meeting his needs. I love him very very much and I have no trouble whatsoever hurting him, why? Because I'm a sadist and I hurt the one I love. Works for both of us.

If he ever decides that his need for pain isn't there anymore it would be difficult for me but I'd find something else into which to channel that energy. I've heard of Dom/mes who can't beat their subs/slaves because they love them, but a part of loving them is accepting their needs.

~Lashra

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RE: He loves you too much to beat you. - 5/15/2008 2:44:22 PM

suessub

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She leans into me, I turn my head and tell her "I love you." She says "I know" and steps back and continues to administer the cane, but now with an increased ferocity.

We know and trust each other. She knows I am a masochist and I know she is a sadist and we are well-matched. I remember when we first started playing and she would immediately feel remorse after every strike. But we kept exploring and each of us, in our own fashion, found our deeper selves. And that is what now connects when the heavy toys come out.

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RE: He loves you too much to beat you. - 5/15/2008 2:56:01 PM

DominantJenny

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Leatherist

I find this rather interesting. Things that fall apart due to someone losing thier ability to be sadistic or Dominate out of falling in love. I can sort of understand why it happens, I just cannot really identify with it.

Do you think that perhaps some people have to be remote or objectify someone to do this sort of thing with them,and once thay are forced to see someone as an actual person-they can't do it any more?

I tend to go the other way-the more intimate I get, the more freedom to go further I feel-not less.

What are your thoughts?

Same here. I think you're probably right...and that that probably means they shouldn't have been doing this to begin with...it suggests to me that it wasn't about a natural kink, but some sort of psychological issue.
I'm a sadist. It doesn't matter how much I love or don't love someone, I'll always be a sadist, I'll always be turned on by causing pain. The thing I learned when I finally got to actually DO it was (thank goodness) that I can only do it if I know the person wants it. (Considering the fantasy world I had developed by the age of 9, this was seriously a huge relief for me.)
(Oh, I'm gonna hijack the thread, aren't I? Oops.)
I'm not as sure that dominance and submission are heavily genetic/inborn...I think nurture can play a bigger role there, but seems to me if you can't love someone and do it, there's a serious problem and you probably shouldn't have been doing it in the first place...

< Message edited by DominantJenny -- 5/15/2008 3:42:24 PM >

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RE: He loves you too much to beat you. - 5/15/2008 2:57:52 PM

MadRabbit

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Leatherist

I tend to go the other way-the more intimate I get, the more freedom to go further I feel-not less.

I tend to be the same way. I need a large degree of comfort level with someone before I can really let go and let those facets of my self come out.

I think a lot of the time when scenario posed happens, it's mostly an issue of internal moral conflict and a lack of reconcilation with their own sadism.

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RE: He loves you too much to beat you. - 5/15/2008 3:46:00 PM

kallisto

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Leatherist

I tend to go the other way-the more intimate I get, the more freedom to go further I feel-not less.

What are your thoughts?

The more intimate I get with Him, (the more we get intimate) the more I want Him to go further with me.

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RE: He loves you too much to beat you. - 5/15/2008 4:11:22 PM

completenz

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There is a deep love between us and this nearly became an issue for us. The first time He brought me to tears through play He felt sooo guilty. Now He knows that i often cry and that this is followed by me going into deep subspace. We both like it there

We try not to analyse it too much, we just admit we are 'sick puppies' but that we love it that way. He 'needs' to inflict pain and control and i 'need' to feel it. It does not diminish our love for each other, it strengthens it and takes it to a new level
c

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