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RE: Sophomores and Experts - 5/27/2008 9:56:10 PM

VMistressV

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Some great points here!
I'm glad someone brought it up.
I agree with what I see as the general consensous so far, That experience and expertise are grossly inflated, and you should strive to learn what you can for the safety and pleasure of those concerned rather as a sort of advedrtisement to lure people in.
But I do think that expertise is a valid concern, especially for submissives. You want to person holding the pain inflicting things to know what they're doing, right?

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RE: Sophomores and Experts - 5/28/2008 4:02:31 AM

kallisto

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

The trend I have noticed -- not just in BDSM -- is that real experts are much more aware of how damn much they don't know.

I've not read past the original post by RedMagic, (so I'll apologize now if this has been repeated), but this statement I quoted says a helluva lot. One should always remember that no matter how much they "know", there is always more knowledge to be gained. I have no use for the "almighty know-it-all".

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RE: Sophomores and Experts - 5/28/2008 10:15:19 AM

SimplyMichael

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnWarren

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael
Oh, and if people who "write books" truly wanted to be modest they wouldn't be here under their real name.

Frankly, I have a lousy memory so I generally use my real name. First choice is John Warren, it that is taken, Dr John Warren. Haven't had to move to a third choice yet.

Passwords were a problem until I came up with the idea of simply encrypting the website name against a rotating cypher and using the output. That way anyone knowing my password for one site can't figure it out for another. Every six months or so I use a new rotating cypher and change all the passwords, but I don't have to write them down.

quote:

Oh, and if people who "write books" truly wanted to be modest they wouldn't be here under their real name. I am NOT implying they are immodest but Warren doesn't exactly need to put expert on his profile to get the same or similar effect.

Since lately whatever I write seems to be read as an insult, I want to make sure that what I wrote wasn't seen that way. I hope my intent was clear because I DO respect who you are and what you have done. I don't blame you for using your name and being proud of what you have done. That is why I made it clear I didn't think you were being immodest in any way shape or form.

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RE: Sophomores and Experts - 5/28/2008 11:58:33 AM

Padriag

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

Since lately whatever I write seems to be read as an insult...

I'm insulted... you haven't written anything insulting about me yet.

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RE: Sophomores and Experts - 5/28/2008 2:04:59 PM

MstrVik

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

The trend I have noticed -- not just in BDSM -- is that real experts are much more aware of how damn much they don't know.

Getting back to just this one: There's always more to learn, no matter what is one's level of expertice. - When people presents themselves as experts, I get suspicious - not because I don't think they are knowledgeable, but because it makes them appear conceited in some way.
Still, I have no problem with accepting that there are in fact experts within very limited fields, like shibari for example, or pie making or computer animation or whatever - nevertheless, the term 'expert' is fairly relative when used in a general manner.
Experts within bdsm? Perhaps there are some, but it's a wide field. I wouldn't say writing a book makes one an expert, but it makes the amassed knowledge available to a lot of other people - and that's something I consider important for the discussion here. One reason I participate on these boards is that I experience that I learn something from it, both about myself and others. And I very frankly appreciate the comments both from those who are just getting started and the more accomplished people - I can learn something from listening to most people. It brings me a new insight.

I don't know if it was the OP's intention, but the way the term 'sophomore' was first presented here, it actually seems a bit condescending to me - 'someone who's been around a bit, but hasn't graduated yet' - I'm not sure the term applies here really. When does 'graduation' happen within bdsm? Does one get a diploma?? - I guess it can be seen as a whole series of 'graduations', but it's a long road...

I see people posting here, I don't necessarily listen more to someone I notice is more knowledgeable than me, though sometimes it gives me more useful input and then again, sometimes not. I take everything with a grain of salt. If I need 'expert advice' I read a book or do a search - I don't come here for that. There's a lot of bigmouthed people here (including myself at times), and I appreciate that - expect it even, and that's the crux of it really, at least for me - it's enjoyable. Who really cares about anybody's level of skill as long as you're having a good time...

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thought provoking... - 5/29/2008 6:54:28 AM

ladycirce

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and it made me review my profile as well, because i knew i had a few areas of expertise listed. playing Domme for fun and for profit, i very often come across this type of prejudice; pros are simply marketing, they act like they are experts in everything, or what a laundry list of favorite activities, so much enjoyment/ level of ability can't possibly be true.
i use collarme to attract P/people i might be compatible with. because i want it to be a positive experience, i know that every last thing listed on my profile is 100% reflecting the way i feel.
expert is a relative term. having advanced clinical training in medical procedures does not qualify me as a medical expert by any means. however, while comparing my skill level to those of my Peers, i do consider myself expert in a BDSM context simply because i have been tested in those areas on a professional level in the medical field, and passed, obviously. i really don't spend my precious playtime figuring out what E/everyone else is doing, i love to create my own scenes. as i am not pure evil, perhaps i have not thought of all the ways to torture someone. does that make me less of an expert because i do not know every device that can be used for torment or have done everything everyone else is doing?
having the training to do extreme sadistic torture in the relative safty of a controlled enviornment is what attracted me to the lifestyle in the first place. the fact that some people want pain, that just blows my mind and thrills me everyday. i'm so glad i found ways to satisfy urges that don't fit in my typical goody two-shoes, egalitarian socialization. i don't in anyway believe i'm better than anyone else, but i sure like to play it for fun.
so i think there is a possibility of finding the truth in marketing, try not to presume it is all inflated ego and have a conversation instead. i hope You find all the experts You ever hoped for.

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RE: Sophomores and Experts - 5/29/2008 7:16:34 AM

RavenMuse

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I haven't got anything listed as 'expert'... no matter how much You know about a particular form of play... with a new girl You don't know squat about HER reactions to it until You take the care and time to learn the girl.

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RE: Sophomores and Experts - 5/29/2008 10:20:59 AM

Domitianus

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quote:

ORIGINAL: luvnchains

How is it said? The more I learn, the more I know. The more I know, the more I understand how very little I really know.

Along similar lines:

The more I learn, the more I learn how much I have to learn.

To cease learning is to cease living, even for an "expert."

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RE: Sophomores and Experts - 5/29/2008 11:17:12 AM

BitaTruble

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

The trend I have noticed -- not just in BDSM -- is that real experts are much more aware of how damn much they don't know.

I read this post a few days ago and something didn't sit right with me and I couldn't quite put my finger on what it was until now. I do consider myself an expert in a few areas, only one of which is BDSM related, but still, those things which I am expert on are things about which I have an enormous passion bordering on obsession. Because of that passion I've made it a point to study, in depth, those areas which are a delight to my senses or personality.

I'm 48 years old. I've been engaging in SM for most of my adult life. At this point, if I hadn't become an expert in at least a few things which are a passion, I'd wonder how much of a passion they really were to me. I seriously doubt that I will learn as much during the rest of my life (within a BDSM context) as I have learned up to this point in my life. I simply don't have as many years ahead of me as I do behind me realistically speaking.

Here's what bugged me about the generalization - 'real experts are much more aware of how damn much they don't know'. I'm quite clueless regarding how damn much I don't know because I don't know what I don't know! I may, in fact, know a hell of a lot of what's available or I may have only skimmed the surface. There isn't any sort of measuring stick to quantify my knowledge. If you break down something into a % and you don't know what you don't know, how can you possibly say that you haven't learned 100% of a particular subject? Humanity is not infinite, it's finite so the must be one person on the planet who knows more about a particular subject than any other single person on the planet.

How do you know, for sure, that person isn't you .. if you don't know what you don't know? Also, does a lack of knowledge in a particular area somehow detract from one's expertise in another area? I don't think so, but it's all subjective to be sure. I just had something that was bugging me about the whole thing, so thought I'd throw it out there for others to chew on if they are so inclined.

Celeste

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RE: Sophomores and Experts - 5/29/2008 11:51:39 AM

Archer

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Rather than an essoteric measure of expertise I use a subjectivly measured opinion as an objective qualifier to use the term.
If I have been asked to and have taught a well recieved class on a subject, then I'll likely list it here on the site as "Expert".

However I really wish they had a catagory of Competent because that is certainly a catagory I could use for many more areas.

< Message edited by Archer -- 5/29/2008 11:54:33 AM >

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RE: Sophomores and Experts - 5/29/2008 11:59:18 AM

RedMagic1

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I list chess as an "expert" area, and in fact just last week I broke into the Top 200 of an online chess rating list that includes over 10,000 people. Yay, me -- but a year ago, I genuinely thought I would never get there, and I would just try... and enjoy the trying. So yes, I understand that game better than most people currently alive. On the other hand, there are sooooo many people who can beat me just as easily as I can beat a newbie that I consider myself an "ok" player, not "good."

Several posters have pointed out that expertise is relative, and sexual expertise is relative to the people actually expressing affection for one another.

It is entirely possible to know you are skilled at something, and because of your skill to realize the subject is larger than you can grasp in your lifetime. Being better than other individuals is not the same as mastery of a discipline. Artistic, scientific, sexual disciplines are beyond our complete mastery, as far as I can tell. They are certainly way beyond mine.

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RE: Sophomores and Experts - 5/29/2008 1:11:01 PM

Alumbrado

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Well, I went back and looked at my profile, and I will still insist that I am so too a twue expert at riding roller coasters.

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RE: Sophomores and Experts - 5/29/2008 1:29:23 PM

Leatherist

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What really counts,is if you can back up your words with results.

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