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"A sub" but not - 10/11/2008 9:59:24 PM

mbes

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"a submissive"---
I know I'm not the only one who feels this way, but I'm hoping for some help explaining the phenomenon.
I do want to submit to one. I do not want to submit to anyone else. My concept of submitting ends with one.
I have strong opinions, but I am willing to subvert them to another's wishes. The opinions are still there.
I have definite likes and dislikes. I don't mind expressing them. I am willing and even eager, where possible, to submit to (an)other's likes and dislikes. That doesn't make mine go away, it merely makes me willing to submit to another's.
So how do I explain this to another?

RE: "A sub" but not - 10/11/2008 10:05:19 PM

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I'm not sure what you think you need to explain. You're a submissive person. Pretty much textbook definition, if there ever was one.

Cali

_____________________________

AKA "The Undisputed Goddess of Sarcasm", "Big Bad Cali" and "Yum Bum". Advisor to the Subbie Mafia, founding member of the W.A.C. and the Judgmental Bitches Brigade, member of the Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair-a's and Team Troll

(in reply to mbes)

RE: "A sub" but not - 10/11/2008 10:06:04 PM

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Sounds fairly normal to me - sounds like me, in fact. I understand what you're saying, and I think most people would, though one has to make allowances for the fact that not all subs are like that and not all dominants want that.

I'd suggest phrasing it just the way you have here.

(in reply to mbes)

RE: "A sub" but not - 10/11/2008 10:07:20 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mbes

So how do I explain this to another?

Something like this maybe:

I have my own thoughts, preferences, and opinions. In general I would say I have a strong personality. However, I have the need/desire to submit to, and please, the dominant whom I choose to serve.

_____________________________

marie.

I give good agita.

(in reply to mbes)

RE: "A sub" but not - 10/11/2008 10:09:13 PM

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"my mind has, and always will have its own thoughts and wishes, but i prefer to give the thoughts and wishes of my partner priority over my own, and to learn what their thoughts and wishes might be."

< Message edited by hopelesslyInvo -- 10/11/2008 10:10:11 PM >

_____________________________

great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people.

(in reply to mbes)

RE: "A sub" but not - 10/11/2008 10:25:16 PM

mbes

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Thank you, ya'll are lifesavers. I'm aware that I'm not really unusual, and that there are others who feel far differently. I'm just not always good at what I want to express, and need help sometimes. You've given it. Thank you!

(in reply to hopelesslyInvo)

RE: "A sub" but not - 10/11/2008 10:34:49 PM

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Hi, mbes----
It appears you articulate your thoughts very well in the OP. Why not express it just like that?
Also, at a seminar I attended a few months back, it was pointed out by the presenter that "submissive" is not a noun. Thus, it begs a term after it: for example: submissive male, submissive partner, submissive wife, etc. Perhaps if you wish to elucidate your thoughts further, you may use that as an additional stepping-off point? Although, again, I would say that your statements were concise and eloquent.
Davan

(in reply to mbes)

RE: "A sub" but not - 10/11/2008 11:26:02 PM

mbes

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Thanks much! Sometimes I feel that what I'm trying to get out, isn't coming out in any recognizable form. Tis the joy of being me, I suppose. ~sigh~
I can't really think of any noun to go after submissive that fits me, When I hear someone say "you must be a submissive", it just wants to be followed by "but not to you, ----.

It doesn't seem a difficult concept to me, but I get the feeling I'm not expressing it right (even when I keep that last bit out of it).

(in reply to DavanKael)

RE: "A sub" but not - 10/12/2008 12:36:30 AM

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I have a perfect popular fiction example that I use to explain this (as being what I am attracted to in a submissive) but you can't have it because it is mine. When I get around to writing a little essay on it in my profile you can quote it.

(in reply to mbes)

RE: "A sub" but not - 10/12/2008 5:26:46 AM

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From: Kalamazoo, MI
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I think that a fairly common misunderstanding is that a person who sees themselves as submissive will automatically start submitting to anyone with a voice of authority. Some Doms try to use this fallacy to their advantage.

I am a slave - to only one who I carefully chose. Yes, I chose him as much as he chose me, and he is proud that I chose him. I do not submit to random males who choose to write to me and believe that a "real" slave should respond in a certain way. I still have a sense of humor, my IQ did not drop, strawberries are still my favorite food - I am still ME but a better version because someone has taken the time and caring to bring out the best in me. At the same time I have done my utmost to please that special one. The more I please Him the more He pleases me. It takes finding the right one to do that for you, and there is no need to ever settle. Keep looking until you find that right one for you, and you never need to feel like you have to submit to anyone who can't meet your needs. That doesn't make you less submissive - it makes you discriminating and there is nothing wrong with that.

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RE: "A sub" but not - 10/12/2008 5:41:29 AM

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No explanation is needed.

"Submissive" means you want to submit to the will/decisions/judgment of another. It does not mean you forfeit your own ideas, wants, needs, or desires. It does not mean you will blindly obey anyone who self-styles themselves a dominant and therefore is entitled to the slavish obeisances of every s-type around.

A TPE relationship is relationship first, power exchange second. You will submit to someone with whom you have some chemistry, with whom you feel some compatibility. You will desire his company in a vanilla sense as well as in a TPE sense. That is exactly as it should be.

Call yourself "sub", "submissive", "slave", or whatever other term resonates with you. The one to whom you will submit will be able to understand why you label yourself thus, and will either accept that label or work with you to identify the label best suited to whatever dynamic evolves between the two of you. No one else's opinion matters.

Which is a whole lot of words to say "You worry too much!"

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(in reply to mbes)

RE: "A sub" but not - 10/12/2008 7:00:52 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mbes

"a submissive"---
I know I'm not the only one who feels this way, but I'm hoping for some help explaining the phenomenon.
I do want to submit to one. I do not want to submit to anyone else. My concept of submitting ends with one.
I have strong opinions, but I am willing to subvert them to another's wishes. The opinions are still there.
I have definite likes and dislikes. I don't mind expressing them. I am willing and even eager, where possible, to submit to (an)other's likes and dislikes. That doesn't make mine go away, it merely makes me willing to submit to another's.
So how do I explain this to another?

First, You could start by saying you are human and that you react in the same way that almost any other human being would react.
Second, you could believe in the concept that you don't have to explain yourself to others; you just have to be.

_____________________________

If I said something to offend you, please tell me what it was so that I can say it again later.

(in reply to mbes)

RE: "A sub" but not - 10/12/2008 7:43:20 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: chamberqueen

I think that a fairly common misunderstanding is that a person who sees themselves as submissive will automatically start submitting to anyone with a voice of authority. Some Doms try to use this fallacy to their advantage.

Absolutely, what she said. Change the concept of "submissive" to "heterosexual". Do you have to explain to every man that you will not have sex with them just because you are heterosexual (okay, admittedly, not one of my better examples). Do you have to explain to every dominant person that you will not submit to them just because you are a submissive person? (yes, some you do, but you get my point... the people that expect that are dipshits).

Cali

_____________________________

AKA "The Undisputed Goddess of Sarcasm", "Big Bad Cali" and "Yum Bum". Advisor to the Subbie Mafia, founding member of the W.A.C. and the Judgmental Bitches Brigade, member of the Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair-a's and Team Troll

(in reply to chamberqueen)

RE: "A sub" but not - 10/12/2008 9:15:49 AM

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Assuming the person you're trying to explain this to wants you to submit to him and you don't feel the necessary connection how about:
"No".
"No,I don't think we're compatible"
"I'm submissive to one and you aren't the one"
"I'm a person, not a light switch. There isn't anyway for you to flip me into submission."

Honestly, what more do you need to say except that just like you enjoy sex doesn't mean you want to have it with every guy on the block, being submissive doesn't mean you want to submit to every male around.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to CalifChick)

RE: "A sub" but not - 10/12/2008 2:39:02 PM

mbes

Posts: 465
Joined: 12/14/2006
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Yes, worrying too much is indeed another of my faults.

I'm not concerned too much about explaining to the whole world who I am, I can't imagine that many people would care. But every once in a while, I would like specific people to "get it". It would undoubtedly work better to show than to explain, but... I like words!
Thanks again, and if anyone else has words of wisdom, please share!
ApathyRomance, if I can figure out where essays go in profiles, I'll be checking yours. Write fast!

(in reply to DesFIP)

RE: "A sub" but not - 10/13/2008 7:53:14 AM

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how about saying that you have the desire to submit within a relationship, but you are not generally "a submissive." some here wouldn't see the distinction, but the difference is vast. you are saying that you wish to submit yourself to that special One, that your submission is triggered by that special person and/or relationship. for personality-type submissives, it is very different, we submit out of instinct and reflex, it is our normal way of interacting with others in the world.

so i think it's very admirable that you wish to be clear in describing/defining just who you are and the way your particular submission works, instead of letting others assume.

(in reply to mbes)

RE: "A sub"; but not - 10/13/2008 12:12:06 PM

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Thank you for the wonderful question. I struggle with this dichotomy of personality when talking with many within the BDSM community. I am not submissive in any day to day interaction, and in fact am very dominant. However, I am a submissive sexual partner (my choice for titles). I have had many folks never understand and even argue that I was not a "sub" but a "dom(me)", no matter what I thought of myself.
For a while this lack of others understanding, led to my abandonment of the entire BDSM community. However, its lonely out there. :) Also, I cannot let the smallness of a few lead me away from others who are not.
I think many folks in alternative sexualities at sometime felt as if they did not belong anywhere ("here", "there", "anywhere"). I came to realize that I would try to explain once to any one person. After that once, the only further discussion I would have was if it was a true knowledge/intellectual discussion, as in "help me to understand further". Otherwise, I simply will pony up to the Rudeness barrel and open up a can of whoop ass. I am not "their" sub and so they can have my full dominant, type A personality, in their face. I may prove them right in their mind, that I am not a sub, but either way they go away. My 4 cents worth... Honi

(in reply to daddysprop247)

RE: "A sub"; but not - 10/13/2008 1:24:45 PM

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<FR>

mbes, your thoughts on submissiveness are very similar to mine. I've had experience with a d-type that didn't seem to understand that I wasn't an automaton simply because I identified as submissive - I wasn't allowed to have opinions, for the most part, but now I'm with a wonderful Sir that appreciates all that I have to offer including my wit, my thoughts, my mind, and my heart. And I couldn't be happier.

Don't worry about those who you have to continually explain it to - if you have to keep doing that, you're around the wrong people. The one for you will get exactly what you mean and you won't hardly have to explain a thing. Just be.

_____________________________

9.8m/s^2 + VivaciousSub + ground = ouchx10^9th

To yield readily--easily--to the persuasion of a friend is no merit.... To yield without conviction is no compliment to the understanding of either. ~ Pride and Prejudice

(in reply to Honalori)

RE: "A sub" but not - 10/13/2008 3:12:10 PM

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Well OK, I've been following this thread since the beginning and not posting because the only thing I could think of to say to the original question was, "Where is the NOT submissive part?"

Honestly mbes I think you explained yourself perfectly. I just think you don't like the explanation. Somehow, you don't think that the thing you described is submissive (whatever that means). So my advice is...

Take a close read at this thread and notice that every single poster, without fail, both dom and sub alike, men and women both have all said exactly the same thing... "sounds about right". Now think about how seldom such unanimous agreement is EVER seen on these forums.

Whatever it is that you are, what is plainly true is that you communicated quite clearly what every single person here identified as "textbook submissive". The specific nature of that submission will flesh out in the presence of a partner to provide it's necessary foil.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to mbes)

RE: "A sub" but not - 10/13/2008 8:03:33 PM

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mbes, not only are you not required to submit to anyone except your specific Master/Dom, it actually lessens the value of your submission in my eyes if you do.

_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to leadership527)

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