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"the unworthy" - 1/13/2009 7:01:19 AM

Posts: 5279
Joined: 9/28/2006
From: Warm Springs, GA but i live in San Francisco.
Status: offline

This is not about the "unworthy worm" being the ideal for male submission, but something of a far more personal issue for me.

Basically, though faced with frequent obvious and subtle reassurances to the contrary; why do i so often come back to the perspective that i'm not worth serving my Owner? Even more so, how do one get past this self-conditioning so that the question either does not arise or will not effect me negatively when it does?

I can't imagine that i'm the only person that this troubles; if i were to guess, i'd say it's probably all too common among both female and male submissives. When the thought process comes from some mistake i've made, i can of course be more careful in the future to not make that mistake again. But seriously, i am both a dork and a bit of a clutz; i will always make mistakes and there's no getting around it. I'm not perfect, if i were i doubt that i would ever have thought i needed a dominant.

Now, i don't place Ma'am on too high of a pedastal; She's not some unreachable star. She is very human with her own quirks and imperfections and She is, as much as anything else, my beloved friend. But still, for one reason or the other; i all too often come back to thoughts "i don't deserve Her" and "She would be so much happier if She dropped me and found some other, better submissive".

I am frequently told, without provocation (or fishing), that She loves me and that i am very important to Her.

So, why can't i simply accept it; balls to bone, without any reservations?

Please let me add, that in most other situations i am generally confident, if not cocky or arrogant.

_____________________________

I'm the man your mother warned you about...
if only to keep me to herself.

I'm a male dominant switch whose experienced as a poly sub to a dominant woman
.
Where the fuck do I post?

Proud Owner and Protector of chyldeschylde.

RE: "the unworthy" - 1/13/2009 7:13:29 AM

Posts: 613
Joined: 3/16/2007
From: San Diego, Ca
Status: offline

No one is perfect including Dominants and it sounds like yours is happy with you. Since this seems to be a pattern in your life this could go back a long way, you are in the greater LA area and there are many Kink Aware professionals in the area you may want to talk to one of them about it. Here is the link http://www.ncsfreedom.org/index.php?option=com_keyword&id=270

Mike

(in reply to darchChylde)

RE: "the unworthy" - 1/13/2009 7:14:42 AM

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Joined: 12/17/2008
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darkChylde,

Please read the "Infected Gift" thread in this forum where mistoferin gives a nice description of what she called "sub drop" which sounds like what you are experiencing. Perhaps even giving it a name and recognizing that it is a natural and common feeling will be of some consolation and give you hope.

yours

_____________________________

May your service of love a beautiful thing; want nothing else, fear nothing else and let love be free to become what love truly is. -- Hadewijch of Antwerp

As a rule, I don't like to make general statements.

(in reply to darchChylde)

RE: "the unworthy" - 1/13/2009 7:39:11 AM

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Joined: 1/13/2009
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Since I'm in your shoes with you, I don't believe it's sub drop. It's something that I'm trying to work on though.
I know how hard it is to "try" to feel as if you are worthy but still come up lacking. It's so easy for others to tell you that yes, you are worthy. If you don't believe it in yourself, then it doesn't matter what others say.

The best way I can figure to beat this is to learn to love yourself. I don't place any value on myself why should anyone else?

I don't know if I'll ever have this issue "fixed". But most days I can BS why way through it.

(in reply to YoursMistress)

RE: "the unworthy" - 1/13/2009 7:42:58 AM

Posts: 5279
Joined: 9/28/2006
From: Warm Springs, GA but i live in San Francisco.
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CallMePatches

I don't know if I'll ever have this issue "fixed". But most days I can BS why way through it.

That sounds familiar, though usually i 'stubborn my way though it". I just hate having to, loving relationships would be so much easier without all the feelings getting in the way.

ps: half joking in that last line

_____________________________

I'm the man your mother warned you about...
if only to keep me to herself.

I'm a male dominant switch whose experienced as a poly sub to a dominant woman
.
Where the fuck do I post?

Proud Owner and Protector of chyldeschylde.

(in reply to CallMePatches)

RE: "the unworthy" - 1/13/2009 7:57:25 AM

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Joined: 2/2/2008
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darkChylde...I don't have an answer for you but know that I have the same issue. Sometimes, it troubles me more than at other times. I think many people feel this way at one time or another in their life. You have to reach into your core and know that you deserve and rejoice in what you have in your life including serving your Mistress. I don't think this is just a trait that affects subs. When I first met Master, one time he asked me a question regarding his looks. He then related a story and even as a Master he has his own doubts about someone loving and serving him. Having a loving relationship and feelings to go along with it, means dealing with our own fears and insecurities and learning to enjoy and embrace the roller coaster of life.

(in reply to darchChylde)

RE: "the unworthy" - 1/13/2009 7:59:10 AM

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Joined: 7/29/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: darchChylde
But still, for one reason or the other; i all too often come back to thoughts "i don't deserve Her" and "She would be so much happier if She dropped me and found some other, better submissive".

I don't think this will make you feel any more worthy, but I can pass on what was said to me when I made similar comments such as these.

Who am I to tell him what he deserves? Who am I to tell him what will make him happy? I don't make those decisions; he does.

Part of believing that you are worthy is stopping the negative thoughts when they come up. Then replace the negative thoughts with positive ones. Even if you have to start with "She sees me as worthy". I imagine that you think she has pretty good judgment and that you trust it in most respects, so why not this area?

Replacing old tapes is not easy work, but it can be done.

Knight's Kyra

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to darchChylde)

RE: "the unworthy" - 1/13/2009 8:18:56 AM

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I try to find the root of where these feelings or thoughts came from in the first place. I believe that for many it starts in um'hood with self talk... coming from how you perceive life and people around you. That um mind can be a tricky thing! lol Like when parents divorce, the um's often believe it is their fault. Basically I believe this comes from the world revolving around them, good or bad. If the message is that you are not good enough or cannot compare to others somehow, your self talk tends to reflect that. So from an early age we are talking to ourselves in a way that isn't the best for building personal strengths.

In severe situations, there is no other answer in my book than counseling. In other's the will to change and feel better and having the resources to do so is just fine. I am not the typical positive thinking advocate becasue some of that can be a lie and your mind receives it as a lie. You have to be ready to hear it and say it. I have one I am working with now who has assignments to address his self talk... his feelings... and to learn to reprocess it all.

We start out with simple facts to combat his poor thinking or self talk. This has to be something that really is personal but can be in general... for example... repeating or writing throughout the day... I am a worthy person and loved. You build upon that first assignment and pretty soon you are exploring a lot of feelings.. more intune to your thoughts and processing of things and you can see where the um take on things might have been an issue.

Just as with AA, they have a phrase... stinkin thinkin. I call it self talk and stinkin thinkin. If the way you are thinking defeats you... then you can consider it is stinkin thinkin. You have to learn to recognise it. Once you do and have some personal tool to combat it, you can overcome it. It is reconditioning you to think differently and less self consumed.

When you are feeling the most vulnerable... aren't your thoughts centered on self? You can't just ignore them... but must address them.

I wish you well in this. It cannot be easy struggling with yourself and feeling like this. But there is a way through it all. You cannot hide these things and must have a safe and trusted someone you can be accountable with to help you in moments when you don't feel worthy of it all and might be beating yourself up. In those moments you may be tired, low blood sugar, overwhelmed in life or just vulnerable in some way. The idea is to combat it all keeping an eye on the physical as well and the emotional. Look at the times when you are not feeling less worthy. What is going on? Re-enforce that. Learn to see when you get taken down and how to lift yourself.

It is a wonderful thing to live free and true to who you are. If you are sending faulty messages to yourself, it is hard to do these things.

< Message edited by Lockit -- 1/13/2009 8:48:56 AM >

_____________________________

No matter how old a woman gets, some men will think she was born yesterday! ROFL... I love this place!

(in reply to califsue)

RE: "the unworthy" - 1/13/2009 8:28:00 AM

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Work on it over time. Personally I don't think it's a bad thing when everyone believes they are being spoiled.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to Lockit)

RE: "the unworthy" - 1/13/2009 8:55:19 AM

Posts: 1597
Joined: 10/25/2007
From: Kalamazoo, MI
Status: offline

I belong to a slave board besides being in contact with people here, and I find that among slaves there is a general feeling of not being quite good enough, of always striving to be better. The positive side of this is that the sub or slave is constantly looking for ways to be more pleasing. The negative side is that the feeling can get out of control and you can start to beat yourself up with it. (My personal fears are that I am not beautiful enough, not exciting enough, not lovable.)

The trick is to stop the negative self talk. It is one thing to be cognizant of the fact that you can always strive to do your job better. It is another thing to let fear of not being good enough become a drain on the relationship. If you can remember that having a healthy self esteem will actually benefit the relationship then it is easier to stop the nasty worthless thoughts and to concentrate on the positives instead.

You are definitely not alone in this boat. : )

_____________________________

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

RE: "the unworthy" - 1/13/2009 9:15:18 AM

Posts: 1551
Joined: 4/19/2005
From: Texas
Status: offline

Greetings..

At times I go through this same thought process, and it is generally sparked by my having done something not right or even just something that I have no clue about but am being given instruction from one in a position over me.

For me..the best way I can look at this feeling is not from or due to a lack of self esteem or confidence but because of the exact opposite of that. Being one that is use to being in control, making the decisions for life, owning the mistakes but still retaining the control of how you make yourself feel about the mistake..makes it difficult and a akward position to have another now controlling all the area's that once were yours to own and in a sense answer to no one but yourself.

I've gone from an area of known to one of unknown and learning how to accept the words and judgements from another both good and bad isn't easy. It's an avenue of vulnerability in a way..more access to your emotions/feelings. Ultimately I think down the road it is a issue of Trust, and as time marches on that usually grows.

To try and clarify a bit: a slave is now in a position to act and behave a certain way. Negative reprocussions or corrections can not afford you to deal with them however you want to..i.e. ego, back talk, sluff it off, stop serving as a slave in the manner your expected to, self wallow..alot of the immediate responses one might have to "protect" themselves. That leaves a vulnerable state for me and I now have to rely on that other person for redemption ..so to speak.

starshine

< Message edited by starshineowned -- 1/13/2009 9:24:40 AM >

_____________________________

"And in the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years." --Abraham Lincoln

(in reply to darchChylde)

RE: "the unworthy" - 1/13/2009 9:44:54 AM

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quote:

...Even more so, how do one get past this self-conditioning so that the question either does not arise or will not effect me negatively when it does?...

re-conditioning to the desired outcome might help. either on your own or with the help of another.

here's how this slave views it, with respect to the relationship she shares with Master:

this slave is not in a position to decide what is best for Master or to second guess His choices, so thoughts of being unworthy or not the best choice in a slave for Him is a conclusion He would have to come to...before this slave would.

best of luck to you.

(in reply to darchChylde)

RE: "the unworthy" - 1/13/2009 10:09:58 AM

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I think we all experience a level of "negative self-talk" where we feel that we are unworthy of the gifts life brings us. I view it as natural and healthy as it can act as a sort of self-diagnostic to keep us grateful for what we have.

Where it can become negative is where we start using those feelings to self-sabotage those gifts. This is often not consciously done and it is good to be wary of doing that.

_____________________________

I am on a journey of authenticity and self.

(in reply to darchChylde)

RE: "the unworthy" - 1/13/2009 12:06:18 PM

Posts: 27124
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From: Island Of Misfit Toys
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I think we all have those moments of "not good enough", regardless of orientation. When a friend kept referring to himself as unattractive, or having some kind of undesirable trait, I would ask him if he was questioning my taste. If you weren't good enough, or weren't a good fit, you wouldn't be where you are.

_____________________________

[page 23 girl]

(in reply to OttersSwim)

RE: "the unworthy" - 1/13/2009 3:43:29 PM

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First of all, never second guess her judgement.

Second, welcome to being in love.

<sigh>

_____________________________

I am the Cat, holder of the whip and chair.

"Let's see-whips, dips, chains, chips, yep sounds like a party to Me!"

(in reply to darchChylde)

RE: "the unworthy" - 1/13/2009 3:54:47 PM

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Joined: 8/24/2006
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There is some great advice given in this thread. Most of us do go through those times, and I am one of them. One thing I noticed is if I am not taking care of my basic needs; sleep, eating, exercise and relaxationship my whole body, mind and soul goes out of wack.

oceanwynds

(in reply to CatdeMedici)

RE: "the unworthy" - 1/13/2009 4:03:50 PM

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Joined: 2/15/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: darchChylde

This is not about the "unworthy worm" being the ideal for male submission, but something of a far more personal issue for me.

Basically, though faced with frequent obvious and subtle reassurances to the contrary; why do i so often come back to the perspective that i'm not worth serving my Owner? Even more so, how do one get past this self-conditioning so that the question either does not arise or will not effect me negatively when it does?

So, why can't i simply accept it; balls to bone, without any reservations?

There's a lot of possible reasons for selective low self esteem. I share this and I believe it is because something very bad happened to me a few years ago, and it pretty much destroyed my sense of self-worth as a slave. Did anything terrible happen to you?

I know you said you don't put her on a pedestal, but sometimes when you really, really like someone and you really click in all the most important ways your wonderment at your amazing good forture is acompanied by feelings of deep unworthiness of having such fortune and also a strong fear of "tempting fate" by taking the situation for granted and having it snatched away from you. So, in order never to take it for granted, you feel unworthy all the time instead.

I don't know how you get rid of this feeling, but I think your dominant could probably help you with it if you asked her. That's what I would do if I were in your shoes. Maybe she'll just tell you she's Ok with you feeling this way, feeling unworthy, it doesn't change anything, and while that might not be the answer you'd expect, it might content you.

PS: I was very glad that this wasn't about the "unworthy worm." I'm always jealous of male subs when I see those worm threads. Why don't I have an unworthy worm!?!? It's just not fair. :p

(in reply to darchChylde)

RE: "the unworthy" - 1/13/2009 4:29:59 PM

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darch

Open yourself up.

That is easier said than done I know. You (and only you know) how to serve / have a fantastic relationship with your Domme. Your fears may come from not allowing yourself to be totally(mentally) free in the lifestyle you choose.

You are what she wants - go with it and dont over think it. She is with you because she knows you, understands your ways and probably loves your minor faults. Dont let old judgements (commentary, thoughts) get in your way.

Sending you my best wishes.
SnS

(in reply to CaringandReal)

RE: "the unworthy" - 1/13/2009 6:09:12 PM

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From: Nashville, TN
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FR

Everyone has moments of self doubt. The only suggestion I can offer is this:

She thinks you are worthy. Does her opinion matter?

_____________________________

Tress

"If you have to tell people that you are a lady, you are not." My Grandmother

(in reply to darchChylde)

RE: "the unworthy" - 1/13/2009 11:02:49 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CallMePatches

I don't place any value on myself why should anyone else?

I was gonna write a long reply with a whole bunch of interesting tidbits and info and things...

and I don't have to. CallMePatches wrote in one sentence what would have taken me three paragraphs

(I wish I could be so good!)

When I place no worth on myself, and place MORE worth on someone else, then they deserve more than me (after all, they deserve something and I am, effectively, nothing).

On a seperate note, what Lockit describes is the basics of Cognitive-Behavioral Therapy, which is a very effective method for getting around this kind of thinking.

(in reply to CallMePatches)

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