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"I need you to make me all I should be" - 10/13/2009 6:53:08 PM

Posts: 2432
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So many times I see profiles and postings here in the forums from submissive males asking for a woman (actually, they ask for a Mistress, but that's another topic) who can make them the person they're meant to be. They will say they are a victim of their own desires or need a woman (read; Mistress) to teach/train them to be what they should be.

My question is... Ladies, would you be interested in a man like this? One who couldn't handle himself be it sexual, professional, medical/health or daily life?

For the men... Is this what you seek? A woman who can train you to be the person you "should" be?

I'm trying to understand this instead of passing judgement. It just seems to be a recurring theme and I want to understand. Thanks.

< Message edited by CarrieO -- 10/13/2009 7:16:05 PM >

_____________________________

"No matter what happens in the kitchen, never apologize"~Julia Child~

RE: "I need you to make me all I should be" - 10/13/2009 7:15:10 PM

aidan

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It's not what I was looking for, and certainly not something I would put in my profile, but it is what I found.

Ever since Mistress has come into my life I've become a better, more complete person. She brought out parts of my being I didn't know where there or had been ashamed of. She makes me a better aidan, an aidan that makes Her happy, and I feel like that's the aidan I should be.

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(in reply to CarrieO)

RE: "I need you to make me all I should be" - 10/13/2009 7:17:01 PM

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I have two full time jobs. I don't need another. I don't have a lot of patience for men who want to occupy the center of my attention to that extent.

(in reply to CarrieO)

RE: "I need you to make me all I should be" - 10/13/2009 7:28:15 PM

ThatDamnedPanda

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Joined: 1/26/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: aidan

It's not what I was looking for, and certainly not something I would put in my profile, but it is what I found.

Ever since Mistress has come into my life I've become a better, more complete person. She brought out parts of my being I didn't know where there or had been ashamed of. She makes me a better aidan, an aidan that makes Her happy, and I feel like that's the aidan I should be.

Goddamn. Now that's an answer. Not much more to say after that one.

_____________________________

Panda, panda, burning bright
In the forest of the night
What immortal hand or eye
Made you all black and white and roly-poly like that?

(in reply to aidan)

RE: "I need you to make me all I should be" - 10/13/2009 7:35:35 PM

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aidan, Thanks for your answer. What you describe is what I would expect to find within a relationship...kink or vanilla. You're fortunate to have had the chance to grow and become a better person.

What I wonder about are the ones who beg to be made into something better.

btw...I have to say I love the devotion you have for you Mistress and your ability to share it here. Thanks again for your reply.

_____________________________

"No matter what happens in the kitchen, never apologize"~Julia Child~

(in reply to aidan)

RE: "I need you to make me all I should be" - 10/13/2009 7:39:16 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GeorgiaMaam

I have two full time jobs. I don't need another. I don't have a lot of patience for men who want to occupy the center of my attention to that extent.

Yes, I can relate. Thanks for stating my own opinion on this. I have to wonder if what's really need, instead of a Mistress, is a Life Coach.

_____________________________

"No matter what happens in the kitchen, never apologize"~Julia Child~

(in reply to GeorgiaMaam)

RE: "I need you to make me all I should be" - 10/13/2009 7:43:55 PM

SylvereApLeanan

Posts: 8275
Joined: 11/1/2007
From: Hell
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~FR~

My answer is a qualified "maybe."

It depends on the person and whether or not he has realistic expectations of said training. If he's looking for a crutch, then no. However, if he has ambition and a reasonable amount of self-control yet needs a little extra incentive to achieve the results he wants, then I might be willing to take on such a project. For example, if the guy is 100 lbs overweight, eats like crap, and never exercises, but wants me to turn him into Charles Atlas without putting in any work himself...not gonna happen. However, if he's been trying to drop the last 20 lbs, eats right most of the time but occasionally succumbs to a weakness for fast food, and does moderate exercise but needs someone to push him, then yes I'd consider it.

_____________________________

Sylverë
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(in reply to ThatDamnedPanda)

RE: "I need you to make me all I should be" - 10/13/2009 7:50:33 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CarrieO

aidan, Thanks for your answer. What you describe is what I would expect to find within a relationship...kink or vanilla. You're fortunate to have had the chance to grow and become a better person.

What I wonder about are the ones who beg to be made into something better.

btw...I have to say I love the devotion you have for you Mistress and your ability to share it here. Thanks again for your reply.

That's really the question, isn't it? To be "made" in of itself and from an organic process of serving is one thing, but there is a strange pall cast over the notion when it becomes the centerpiece motive for serving. In essence, the servant is seeking to be served, and in light of that consideration, one of course naturally asks next if the entreaty is even legitimate in the first place, or merely bait to solicit interest.

Whenever I hear the "please fix/heal me" laid on thick like that, I envision the image of a nefarious creature in the woods who simulates the sound of a wounded animal, and when predators draw close and within striking range, a deadly trap is sprung. I say beware of those who openly appeal to you because they need your help to "fix" them. It is at worst a manipulation, and at best a considerable chore.

_____________________________

Omnes una manet nox

Founder, Humbled Females

(in reply to CarrieO)

RE: "I need you to make me all I should be" - 10/13/2009 7:52:56 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MarcEsadrian
Whenever I hear the "please fix/heal me" laid on thick like that, I envision the image of a nefarious creature in the woods who simulates the sound of a wounded animal, and when predators draw close and within striking range, a deadly trap is sprung.

Heh. Yes.

_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to MarcEsadrian)

RE: "I need you to make me all I should be" - 10/13/2009 8:00:38 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CarrieO
Yes, I can relate. Thanks for stating my own opinion on this. I have to wonder if what's really need, instead of a Mistress, is a Life Coach.

Just as an aside...I don't think the two are mutually exclusive.

Honestly, the pleas that I see in some profiles, of men desperately looking for direction, authority and wisdom in their lives, sometimes make me very sad. I can only imagine the despair that a person like this must feel when they see that need so flippantly dismissed by someone who doesn't even know them. The automatic assumption is that because you need someone to be the Light of Your Life, that you're automatically vapid and weak--rather than just driven by a deep emotional and spiritual need.

The question that tears at many a submissive's heart and mind is not How to Live, but Why. I'm not going to say that this is true of all the men who ask for someone to take them in hand--I'm sure some of them are probably just lazy or looking for a meal ticket/free ride/"get out of life free" card. But in many cases, "make me the man I should be" is really the cry of the ronin--the samurai without a master. What he's really saying is "give me a cause to fight for, a home to build and defend, a reason to get up every morning and do my best and to lie down at night knowing that what I've done was right, because it was for you."

Some submissives simply aren't able to worship in the Temple of Me the way many of us do. They aren't able to cultivate standard Western-style narcissism, where "I'm awesome" is the only reason you need to live. They know what the world expects or wants from them, but the world hasn't really impressed them much and they haven't really seen much reason to care. They need to live for something greater than themselves--something beautiful that inspires passion.

In another life, they might have become the priests of Kybele or some other goddess that demanded lifetime devotion. Nowadays they tend to go looking for a mortal woman to take on the role.

_____________________________

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea."
-- Robert A. Heinlein

(in reply to CarrieO)

RE: "I need you to make me all I should be" - 10/13/2009 8:11:15 PM

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Joined: 10/6/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CarrieO
For the men... Is this what you seek? A woman who can train you to be the person you "should" be?

No.

My hope for a relationship is that each of us encourages, nurtures, and challenges the other to be the best they can be.

I also really like aidan's response.

(in reply to CarrieO)

RE: "I need you to make me all I should be" - 10/13/2009 8:12:57 PM

dreamerdreaming

Posts: 2839
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Well, there are a LOT of rescuers about, whether D/s or vanilla...

And ideally the right partnership would aid both partners, toward the goal of becoming more fully self- actualized, or self-realized. Again, that's not just a D/s, or just a vanilla thing. All of us here on this earth would be wasting our potential if we did not make a dedicated effort to bring it to fruition.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow's_hierarchy_of_needs

I have a problem with one partner wanting the other to fix them- if its a one-directional flow like that. There are plenty who engage in that dynamic, but I think if the relationship never evolves past that lopsided beginning, then the two individuals may be robbing themselves of the chance to reach their true potential.

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(in reply to CarrieO)

RE: "I need you to make me all I should be" - 10/13/2009 8:16:00 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ShaktiSama

quote:

ORIGINAL: CarrieO
Yes, I can relate. Thanks for stating my own opinion on this. I have to wonder if what's really need, instead of a Mistress, is a Life Coach.

Just as an aside...I don't think the two are mutually exclusive.

Honestly, the pleas that I see in some profiles, of men desperately looking for direction, authority and wisdom in their lives, sometimes make me very sad. I can only imagine the despair that a person like this must feel when they see that need so flippantly dismissed by someone who doesn't even know them. The automatic assumption is that because you need someone to be the Light of Your Life, that you're automatically vapid and weak--rather than just driven by a deep emotional and spiritual need.

Please don't take what I've said as flip or dismissive. I really am trying to understand why a man would feel the need to be so micromanaged. I've recently had to step back from a situation such as this...one where it started with a plea for help, a need to better who he was. I eventually felt emotionally drained and decided I needed to step away from the situation. It became what MarcEsadrian described "It is at worst a manipulation, and at best a considerable chore."

The question that tears at many a submissive's heart and mind is not How to Live, but Why. I'm not going to say that this is true of all the men who ask for someone to take them in hand--I'm sure some of them are probably just lazy or looking for a meal ticket/free ride/"get out of life free" card. But in many cases, "make me the man I should be" is really the cry of the ronin--the samurai without a master. What he's really saying is "give me a cause to fight for, a home to build and defend, a reason to get up every morning and do my best and to lie down at night knowing that what I've done was right, because it was for you."

I understand and appreciate the concept of the knight searching for his Lady to serve and give meaning to it all. My experience has been different from this, however.

Some submissives simply aren't able to worship in the Temple of Me the way many of us do. They aren't able to cultivate standard Western-style narcissism, where "I'm awesome" is the only reason you need to live. They know what the world expects or wants from them, but the world hasn't really impressed them much and they haven't really seen much reason to care. They need to live for something greater than themselves--something beautiful that inspires passion.

In another life, they might have become the priests of Kybele or some other goddess that demanded lifetime devotion. Nowadays they tend to go looking for a mortal woman to take on the role.

Thank you for your reply...it has given me food for thought and reminded me to look beyond.

< Message edited by CarrieO -- 10/13/2009 8:18:09 PM >

_____________________________

"No matter what happens in the kitchen, never apologize"~Julia Child~

(in reply to ShaktiSama)

RE: "I need you to make me all I should be" - 10/13/2009 8:26:11 PM

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From: Jersey
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People have all sorts of different neurosis. There are many broken people out there in need of a savior. And there are many people out there who are all too willing to be that savior.

In each case there could be any number of things fueling those desires. In the case of the submissive who needs to be fixed, maybe what they really crave fundamentally is to be guided, molded, disciplined, cared for, and led. And from the dom side of it, well, maybe there are elements of feeling protective and giving leadership and guidance to this lost soul. And maybe the dom and sub don't know how to channel their dominance and submission in other ways, so it all manifests itself into a fixer/fixee dynamic.

??

Don't know, just throwing it out there.

(in reply to CarrieO)

RE: "I need you to make me all I should be" - 10/13/2009 8:31:50 PM

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Joined: 12/28/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ShaktiSama

quote:

ORIGINAL: CarrieO
Yes, I can relate. Thanks for stating my own opinion on this. I have to wonder if what's really need, instead of a Mistress, is a Life Coach.

Just as an aside...I don't think the two are mutually exclusive.

Honestly, the pleas that I see in some profiles, of men desperately looking for direction, authority and wisdom in their lives, sometimes make me very sad. I can only imagine the despair that a person like this must feel when they see that need so flippantly dismissed by someone who doesn't even know them. The automatic assumption is that because you need someone to be the Light of Your Life, that you're automatically vapid and weak--rather than just driven by a deep emotional and spiritual need.

The question that tears at many a submissive's heart and mind is not How to Live, but Why. I'm not going to say that this is true of all the men who ask for someone to take them in hand--I'm sure some of them are probably just lazy or looking for a meal ticket/free ride/"get out of life free" card. But in many cases, "make me the man I should be" is really the cry of the ronin--the samurai without a master. What he's really saying is "give me a cause to fight for, a home to build and defend, a reason to get up every morning and do my best and to lie down at night knowing that what I've done was right, because it was for you."

Some submissives simply aren't able to worship in the Temple of Me the way many of us do. They aren't able to cultivate standard Western-style narcissism, where "I'm awesome" is the only reason you need to live. They know what the world expects or wants from them, but the world hasn't really impressed them much and they haven't really seen much reason to care. They need to live for something greater than themselves--something beautiful that inspires passion.

In another life, they might have become the priests of Kybele or some other goddess that demanded lifetime devotion. Nowadays they tend to go looking for a mortal woman to take on the role.

Great, great post Shakti. Thank you.

I for one can make myself sound really fucking impressive at a cocktail party -- very confident, successful, and in control. But the need for guidance is still there, underneath. It's not driven by incompetence or weakness, it's driven by the desire to be a passionate follower and not a leader. This society is way too individualistic and contemptuous of that desire or that role, and you end up with a lot of petty narcissists and egotists because of it.

(in reply to ShaktiSama)

RE: "I need you to make me all I should be" - 10/13/2009 8:37:57 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CarrieO

Please don't take what I've said as flip or dismissive. I really am trying to understand why a man would feel the need to be so micromanaged. I've recently had to step back from a situation such as this...one where it started with a plea for help, a need to better who he was. I eventually felt emotionally drained and decided I needed to step away from the situation. It became what MarcEsadrian described "It is at worst a manipulation, and at best a considerable chore."

Yeah, well, there is this too. You can't look at submission as a chance to retreat from adulthood (although many kinks have this element...perhaps all sexual passion and play involves a certain retreat from "responsible" adulthood, or at least shedding the burden of the self we present to the world). You need balance, your feet on the ground. I'm not comfortable in a relationship with anyone, domme or not, unless I feel that they are comfortable trusting me with their weaknesses and leaning on me when they need to. A relationship can't last without that mutuality.

(in reply to CarrieO)

RE: "I need you to make me all I should be" - 10/13/2009 9:47:32 PM

ThatDamnedPanda

Posts: 6060
Joined: 1/26/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ShaktiSama

Honestly, the pleas that I see in some profiles, of men desperately looking for direction, authority and wisdom in their lives, sometimes make me very sad. I can only imagine the despair that a person like this must feel when they see that need so flippantly dismissed by someone who doesn't even know them. The automatic assumption is that because you need someone to be the Light of Your Life, that you're automatically vapid and weak--rather than just driven by a deep emotional and spiritual need.

The question that tears at many a submissive's heart and mind is not How to Live, but Why. I'm not going to say that this is true of all the men who ask for someone to take them in hand--I'm sure some of them are probably just lazy or looking for a meal ticket/free ride/"get out of life free" card. But in many cases, "make me the man I should be" is really the cry of the ronin--the samurai without a master. What he's really saying is "give me a cause to fight for, a home to build and defend, a reason to get up every morning and do my best and to lie down at night knowing that what I've done was right, because it was for you."

Some submissives simply aren't able to worship in the Temple of Me the way many of us do. They aren't able to cultivate standard Western-style narcissism, where "I'm awesome" is the only reason you need to live. They know what the world expects or wants from them, but the world hasn't really impressed them much and they haven't really seen much reason to care. They need to live for something greater than themselves--something beautiful that inspires passion.

Wow. I don't know what it is that's inspired your household tonight, but between the pair of you, you've just written two of the most beautiful and insightful posts I've read here in a very long time. Thank you.

Yours was especially moving. You wrote that as though you were reading it directly from my heart. I"m one of the most self-sufficient, self-contained people I've ever met, and in many ways it only works against me. Almost everyone who knows me thinks, "Oh, that Panda. He doesn't need anyone. He's happy, and always doing so much cool stuff on his own." What none of them ever even imagine is that, paradoxically, it's because I'm so self-contained that I need someone to serve - everything within my own life, my own orbit, is so orderly and so self-sustaining, it's almost impossible for me to find anything inside of me to challenge myself, to inspire passion. I need something else to orbit around, some larger mass, something - as you say - greater than myself to give me a sense of purpose more inspiring than simply managing my own life. Passion - true passion - lies in the regions beyond my orbit, further than I'm able to reach by myself. I know that my life has always worked best when I've had that bright, stable star in the center of my universe, someone whose gravity was strong enough to hold me stable while I spin at velocities high enough to soar through those distant altitudes.

Do I need to be fixed? No. I work fine. I just work much better when I have some purpose greater than myself to serve, and to me, there is no greater purpose than love. Thank you for understanding that so well, and putting it so eloquently.

_____________________________

Panda, panda, burning bright
In the forest of the night
What immortal hand or eye
Made you all black and white and roly-poly like that?

(in reply to ShaktiSama)

RE: "I need you to make me all I should be" - 10/13/2009 10:40:02 PM

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I'm happy if she doesn't hit me in the head with the frying pan if I burn the eggs.

Served white glove of course, all fo fo fo.

chia* (the pet)

_____________________________

Love is a many splendid sting.

You can stick me in the corner, but I'll probably just end up coloring on the walls.

(in reply to CarrieO)

RE: "I need you to make me all I should be" - 10/14/2009 3:45:50 AM

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Joined: 12/23/2007
Status: offline

All my love to you, Chia!

(at least until I finish this post)

No. I don't want a man who wants me to 'remake' him. Mostly, because to 'remake' a man into what I want means to change him from what he really is. That would make him a fake. I don't like fakes. I enjoy helping someone else explore their desires and sort out which are true needs and which are just fantasies. But I'm a believer in "True change comes from within." If the desire for change is not burning in a man's heart, then nothing anyone else can do will effect the outcome.

_____________________________

It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed,
the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning,
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.

(in reply to chiaThePet)

RE: "I need you to make me all I should be" - 10/14/2009 3:58:38 AM

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Joined: 1/27/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MarcEsadrian

quote:

ORIGINAL: CarrieO

What I wonder about are the ones who beg to be made into something better.

That's really the question, isn't it? To be "made" in of itself and from an organic process of serving is one thing, but there is a strange pall cast over the notion when it becomes the centerpiece motive for serving. In essence, the servant is seeking to be served, and in light of that consideration, one of course naturally asks next if the entreaty is even legitimate in the first place, or merely bait to solicit interest.

Whenever I hear the "please fix/heal me" laid on thick like that, I envision the image of a nefarious creature in the woods who simulates the sound of a wounded animal, and when predators draw close and within striking range, a deadly trap is sprung. I say beware of those who openly appeal to you because they need your help to "fix" them. It is at worst a manipulation, and at best a considerable chore.

Yes, this is what I was asking. Not, "can I become a better person within this relationship and under the influence of a strong woman" but instead the man who claims "I can't control my life, my health, my sexual desire...without a mistress to completely control and remake me".

I'm not talking about men who don't need fixing but work better within the confines of a D/s dynamic. I understand that. I'm having problems understanding a man who wants to be relieved of the responsibility of becoming a functioning adult in society..."I have no control over my health and because of that I need a mistress to control me"..."I have issues that keep me from being able to hold a job and handle my bills and I need a mistress to make it right". These are just two examples of what I've heard/read in the past month.

Maybe I'm missing something...maybe this is part of the D/s dynamic, hence the question.
Thanks for the replies so far.

_____________________________

"No matter what happens in the kitchen, never apologize"~Julia Child~

(in reply to MarcEsadrian)

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