quote:

ORIGINAL: Andalusite
Nope. I've had a couple of casual playpartners, both male and female in the past, who I've discussed kink with fairly quickly, but even so, I preferred to get to know them as people first. Getting pushy isn't a positive. There are a lot of things that men (or women) can do to express their submission without being so overt about it, though.

quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha


In first meetings, first emails, first dates, have you ever thought to yourself:

"I wish he asked me more about my kinks."
"I wish he made a move to kiss my feet without my asking."
"He isn't submissive enough, he has not begged me for anything yet."
"I wish he would not say a word until I tell him to speak."
"I wish he would use an honorific without me telling him to."

Is it safe to say that a submissive really is better off really turning off ALL his kinks, urges, submissive inclinations - and let the lady really, honestly take the lead and set the pace? Or is that potentially dangerous and a man may not seem "submissive enough" when getting to know a lady?

quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha


In first meetings, first emails, first dates, have you ever thought to yourself:

"I wish he asked me more about my kinks."
"I wish he made a move to kiss my feet without my asking."
"He isn't submissive enough, he has not begged me for anything yet."
"I wish he would not say a word until I tell him to speak."
"I wish he would use an honorific without me telling him to."

Is it safe to say that a submissive really is better off really turning off ALL his kinks, urges, submissive inclinations - and let the lady really, honestly take the lead and set the pace? Or is that potentially dangerous and a man may not seem "submissive enough" when getting to know a lady?

I know what I like personally, but I wonder if other women do PREFER if a man is more "proactively submissive" (do not confuse this with polite or chivalrous) -- meaning, he kind of puts the submissive agenda on the table so there is no confusion about his kinks or hot buttons, or his ability/desire to serve at her whim.  Rather than, for example, just being an equal, but a gentleman, and waiting for her to set the tone.

Some subs are very, very eager to please. In doing so, they come off as pushy or one-track-minded.  These are not bad eggs, they are misguided.  But are they potentially missing out if they change this behavior and honestly just act -- well, NOT submissive?  Just like an average guy, and let her define the boundaries and roles?

As a femdom, I have never had trouble setting the femdom stage.  With submissives, I have generally had to tell them to back off, turn it down a notch, chill out, calm down or simply, "wait."  If I have to keep telling them to tone it down or knock it off, and to just "act like a normal guy - don't be so shot out of a cannon" then I lose interest.  If I look to the single most prominent characteristic in all my highly successful femdom pursuits, the man (submissive OR vanilla) did not push the kink agenda - EVER - not one bit, not even a hint, a question, or a comment.  It was 100% at my pace. 

Chemistry is a weird thing.  What I'm trying to illustrate is another point here:  there have been times I met a man (submissive) who I was not initially attracted to. Over time, my attraction to him grew.  Chemistry just took off.    There were also men I met (submissive) who I was VERY attracted to initially (and thought were hot) who quickly were a turn off to me because they could not settle down and chill with the kink stuff.  Chemistry is immediately destroyed at the first "minor irritation" with most of these guys, because it's "same ol, same ol" and they get lumped into that bad category. No matter how much they bring to the table.

Yet I fear that some submissive men think it's their duty to at least properly proactively show their submission, share their kinks, or make sure the lady knows he's available to submit.  It's as if he thinks if he never, ever says one thing about his kinky side, or tries some random submissive gestures like kneeling in public or calling her "My Goddess" then he will be cast aside by her.  Yet, I have not met any femdoms who are too shy, who don't know what they want, who can't ask for what they like or can't define their parameters when they feel the time is right.  Look guys - we know what we like, after all, we're femdoms.  Can you give us some breathing room?

Or do some ladies *like* this shot-out-of-a-cannon approach and enjoy "reeling them in"?

Akasha

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

Here's a decisive answer.  Yes and no.  LOL.

<snip>

Show Me that hint of submission, without going overboard.

quote:

ORIGINAL: undergroundsea
I draw a parallel to flirting or extending gestures in romantic, vanilla courting. In addition to person-to-person conversation and getting to know one another, there are positive gestures that express an interest beyond friendship or platonic talk. I think the same can be done in BDSM situations. Just as one can go too far, intrude on space, make a gesture too sexual, or be too focused on such gestures, the same can apply in BDSM situations.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyNTrainer

Well said.  I am pretty hardline on expecting my partner in a D/s relationship to take his share of the responsibility for keeping the spark alive and contributing his creative energy, taking some of the initiative in setting aside playtime for us, etc.  But the key word here is "relationship".  If I've just met somebody five minutes ago and they're drooling on my shoes, masturbating furiously and telling me how much they want to lick my pussy.....uh, no.  In fact, hell no, I'm calling the cops and getting a restraining order. 

What you've described definitely works and makes sense.  Mild flirtation and suggestion is good.  Being too explicit or pushy before it's appropriate, not so much.  There are subtle and tasteful ways to let a lady know that you are interested and willing to be at her disposal.

It took me awhile to figure out that one of the subs I was very, very interested in was also interested in me, because he just wasn't any good at subtle signaling and went overboard on the quiet and polite side.  Fortunately I have no trouble at all being aggressive, so it worked out.  But it might not have, so it's a good idea for male subs to learn how to signal their interest and availability to dommes without seeming either standoffish and uninterested or going overboard to the point of rude slobbering.  There is a middle ground, and it's a good place to find.