quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

I know a lot of subs have kissing the same sex as a 'hard limit.'  And I guess I wonder why - you sum it up here, you wouldn't enjoy it and don't desire it in any way but if your partner ordered you to do it, you'd do it to please them.  That's what submission is, right?

For some people it is.  Not for others. 

"hard limits" are good. They protect people.  But do some subs label things "hard limits" if they find that there's nothing fun, sexy or exciting about doing them?  Isn't surrender about doing things you don't want to do, because it makes your partner happy and/or aroused? And if they are even more aroused by your discomfort?

Not everybody is into that.  Also, there is a difference between discomfort and disgust / nauseated.  Not everyone is an emotional masochist. 

Same sex kissing happens all the time between hetereosexuals.  People losing bets in bars, college kids experimenting one time while pretending to be drunk when they are not, people playing spin the bottle.  Same-sex kissing between girlfriends (straight) at parties to get the attention of men is...is that even considered taboo anymore? It just seems pretty prevalent.  So it's just one kiss - to please the one you submit to.  What makes it a hard limit?  Just the disgust of the act? 

I can't believe you would bring these things up and actually compare them with the mindset that submissives get into.  There is a lot more trust and vulnerability involved in submission (usually).  You're comparing apples to oranges.

Sometimes I think about the unthinkable things I made "non sub men" do in the moment of seduction, after sexual persuasion, in the heat of the moment, things they would NEVER do for another soul. You know how hard it is to get a non kinky guy to accept a dildo in his mouth or up his ass?  That's surrender.

Again, there is trust involved there.  That's different - being a person's lover/one night stand is different than being the buddy of a bunch of frat boys drinking brews in a bar.  Also, let's face it.  You most likely select men who would be more submissive in their manner to you, who perhaps want to experiment, who want to fulfill a fantasy.  So you get to give them the experience.  Then they go back to ...  Yeah, well... ok... that was weird.  Or they feel shame... or they realize something about themselves.  You even show that you know they are trusting you as "submissive" by using quotes.  Would you seriously choose them if they didn't respond to you in that way?

So what's so difficult about one shared kiss for those straight people, if your dominant was so excited by the idea? Actors do it all the time, as evidenced in this article.  How do they find it in themselves to not only do the act, but to enjoy it with all their soul, so they can make the viewer believe the passion is real? 

Some people don't actually like to violate their own integrity.  Not everybody just follows whatever someone else says to do. 

Just throwing it out there.

Akasha

quote:

ORIGINAL: jujubeeMB

I'm a bit surprised at how disturbed everyone is at kissing members of the same gender. I'm straight as a blade (have had sex with women before, so I know it for sure) but I'd kiss multiple women without an issue, as long as the women felt comfortable with me having no real sexual attraction to them (and it had no negative affect on whatever relationship I was in). Kissing is very intimate and very sexual, but women are hot, even if I'm not wired that way.

Besides, I went to a theatre school for college. We played spin the bottle like it was our job.

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ORIGINAL: Twoshoes

quote:

ORIGINAL: jujubeeMB

I'm a bit surprised at how disturbed everyone is at kissing members of the same gender. I'm straight as a blade (have had sex with women before, so I know it for sure) but I'd kiss multiple women without an issue, as long as the women felt comfortable with me having no real sexual attraction to them (and it had no negative affect on whatever relationship I was in). Kissing is very intimate and very sexual, but women are hot, even if I'm not wired that way.

Besides, I went to a theatre school for college. We played spin the bottle like it was our job.

I suspect that alot of women who identify as "bi" think exactly like you, but the distinction isn't made.

I pretty much wrote the same thing: as long as we're clear that it's only happening because they're good-looking...

I should change to theatre though.

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ORIGINAL: Shadow-tiger

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ORIGINAL: Twoshoes
I should change to theatre though.

*snort* Yeah, with that kind of incentive I don't blame ya. Between you n' me (n' the rest of the board) I'm taking notes.

quote:

ORIGINAL: jujubeeMB

I'm a bit surprised at how disturbed everyone is at kissing members of the same gender. I'm straight as a blade (have had sex with women before, so I know it for sure) but I'd kiss multiple women without an issue, as long as the women felt comfortable with me having no real sexual attraction to them (and it had no negative affect on whatever relationship I was in). Kissing is very intimate and very sexual, but women are hot, even if I'm not wired that way.

Besides, I went to a theatre school for college. We played spin the bottle like it was our job.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shadow-tiger

For me kissing can be all kinds of things, not just sexual. Affectionate, friendly, intimate, downright primal.. it depends on the person I'm kissing. With women who aren't family it's almost always something intimate, which can bloom into sexual. Though there's the cousins, sister in law, whatever. For them, just a peck, no tongue please.

quote:

ORIGINAL: jujubeeMB

I'm a bit surprised at how disturbed everyone is at kissing members of the same gender. I'm straight as a blade (have had sex with women before, so I know it for sure) but I'd kiss multiple women without an issue, as long as the women felt comfortable with me having no real sexual attraction to them (and it had no negative affect on whatever relationship I was in). Kissing is very intimate and very sexual, but women are hot, even if I'm not wired that way.

Besides, I went to a theatre school for college. We played spin the bottle like it was our job.

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ORIGINAL: DesFIP

Akasha I would hard limit it because first, I wouldn't believe it would end there. I don't think a man would require this unless he thought to eventually be able to watch me have sex with other women.

But also because there's no consent on the part of the other woman.
Is he going to find a lesbian or bi woman and ask her if it's okay with her for me to be forced to kiss her when I didn't desire her, when I found the experience upsetting and I found her a total turn off? Because if he doesn't, and I don't know that he's laid it out just this bluntly, then she isn't consenting because she's being lied to. In which case, if he believes it's okay for him to lie to her, how can I believe he doesn't also lie to me? And if he is, in effect, ordering me to lie for him, then I don't feel I have to be honest with him either.

Consent and honesty are like pregnancy, you can't just have a little bit. You are or you aren't.

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ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious

I'm perfectly willing to be wrong about this, but part of me suspects it might be a generation thing. The vast majority of girls in my social circle when I was at school would kiss other girls, and rather a lot of the boys would kiss other boys too-not as a sexual thing, exactly-more drunken affection than anything else.

So I'm having difficulty understanding the vehemence of people's reactions on this thread-maybe my generation just views kissing as a less significant demonstration of sexuality, or something?

quote:

ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious

I'm perfectly willing to be wrong about this, but part of me suspects it might be a generation thing. The vast majority of girls in my social circle when I was at school would kiss other girls, and rather a lot of the boys would kiss other boys too-not as a sexual thing, exactly-more drunken affection than anything else.

quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

I can recall a few times with fairly vanilla guys (I was into S&M, they were not, so they were learning, and they had no fantasies) and when "forced" (I should say..seduced, motivated by my arousal, motivated by their own arousal) they did things that were VERY against their very nature, their core. Like taking a phallic item in their mouth or being penetrated anally - men who NEVER fantasized about this kind of thing and would say "Oh my god NO, no way would I do that!" But when they realize how precious and intense submission and surrender is, it changes to "I would never do that for anyone but you...and it turns me on so much to get you so hot while I feel so objectified..."

How do you know if a submissive just says things are limits because they don't get excited with the make believe aspect of being forced? That's what I am getting at, I guess. 

quote:


This is all pretty confusing to me and I have no frame of reference as I've kissed girls, made out with girls, had guys make out with guys (who were not bi) and had totally vanilla guys sucking strap on cock under my "persuasion" and it was always hot all around. But getting submissive men to kiss other guys is always hard (even if they would suck another man's cock at a glory hole).

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ORIGINAL: littlewonder

I'm a straight slave. I have zero interest in kissing another woman. Does nothing at all for me and I find it actually quite a gross thing to do but if Master required it of me then I would obey. Doesn't matter if I like it or not. It matters if he does.