RE: Are the British more law abiding than Americans?

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RE: Are the British more law abiding than Americans? - 1/2/2011 4:31:37 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

Uhhhh, because murder isnt the only crime?

Someone else who cant read. My reply to pinkkitty was clear enough. She said taking away guns increased crime, I replied there were more murders in the US than in the UK, despite us not having guns.

It`s a shame you seem more worried about them taking your gun, than you were when they took your brain.

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RE: Are the British more law abiding than Americans? - 1/2/2011 4:33:42 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

Uhhhh, because murder isnt the only crime?

Someone else who cant read. My reply to pinkkitty was clear enough. She said taking away guns increased crime, I replied there were more murders in the US than in the UK, despite us not having guns.

It`s a shame you seem more worried about them taking your gun, than you were when they took your brain.

Youre the one with a comprehension problem. Regardless of the rate of murder, the total crime rate is higher in the UK. Your statement tries to deny that.

< Message edited by willbeurdaddy -- 1/2/2011 4:36:54 PM >

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RE: Are the British more law abiding than Americans? - 1/2/2011 4:34:49 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Charles6682
Rapeher,I forgot.There are still a few morons in England.I forgot you were still around.

You sound like someone who's had wit described to him over the phone, but hasn't quite grasped the concept.

Although, to be fair, if we were to write a list of topics you haven't quite grasped we'd be here from now until the end of time ...

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RE: Are the British more law abiding than Americans? - 1/2/2011 4:37:23 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy
Regardless of the rate of murder, there is more total crime in the UK.

What figures are you using? The last I saw, the UK had a lower rate of violent crime than the US.

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RE: Are the British more law abiding than Americans? - 1/2/2011 4:40:19 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RapierFugue

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy
Regardless of the rate of murder, there is more total crime in the UK.

What figures are you using? The last I saw, the UK had a lower rate of violent crime than the US.

Ones with gripping hands?

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RE: Are the British more law abiding than Americans? - 1/2/2011 4:42:29 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SL4V3M4YB3

quote:

ORIGINAL: RapierFugue

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy
Regardless of the rate of murder, there is more total crime in the UK.

What figures are you using? The last I saw, the UK had a lower rate of violent crime than the US.

Ones with gripping hands?

Nice one :)

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RE: Are the British more law abiding than Americans? - 1/2/2011 4:44:17 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RapierFugue

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy
Regardless of the rate of murder, there is more total crime in the UK.

What figures are you using? The last I saw, the UK had a lower rate of violent crime than the US.

It`s fine, he is on the planet Wilbur. Not only ignoring what people actually post, but making stuff up as he goes along.

I already said that in general the UK wasnt any different to the US. My post pointed out owning guns doesnt actually stop you getting killed. He just jumped in because he thought I had made an error with my post.

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RE: Are the British more law abiding than Americans? - 1/2/2011 4:50:53 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: RapierFugue

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy
Regardless of the rate of murder, there is more total crime in the UK.

What figures are you using? The last I saw, the UK had a lower rate of violent crime than the US.

It`s fine, he is on the planet Wilbur. Not only ignoring what people actually post, but making stuff up as he goes along.

Ah ok, cheers. I was just a little puzzled because I was fairly sure we were well adrift of the US in that regard, and wondered if I should become suddenly more paranoid ;)

As per those ludicrous "fear of crime" figures that (IIRC) Labour started, but the Tories are sticking with ... as if the fear of crime has anything to do with the price of fish. I mean, logically, all fear of crime statistics do is tell you how low-brow your media is, and how gullible your public. Not a lot to do with crime per se.

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RE: Are the British more law abiding than Americans? - 1/2/2011 4:53:34 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: RapierFugue

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy
Regardless of the rate of murder, there is more total crime in the UK.

What figures are you using? The last I saw, the UK had a lower rate of violent crime than the US.

It`s fine, he is on the planet Wilbur. Not only ignoring what people actually post, but making stuff up as he goes along.

I already said that in general the UK wasnt any different to the US. My post pointed out owning guns doesnt actually stop you getting killed. He just jumped in because he thought I had made an error with my post.

Thats because you did make an error in the post.

Very simple, the per capita rate of total crime is higher in the UK than the US. Period.

< Message edited by willbeurdaddy -- 1/2/2011 4:54:01 PM >

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RE: Are the British more law abiding than Americans? - 1/2/2011 4:55:14 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SL4V3M4YB3

quote:

ORIGINAL: RapierFugue

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy
Regardless of the rate of murder, there is more total crime in the UK.

What figures are you using? The last I saw, the UK had a lower rate of violent crime than the US.

Ones with gripping hands?

Apparently the entire UK contingent on this board doesnt speak English. Violent crime is not total crime. Murder is not total crime.

The rate of assault in the UK is almost triple the rate in the US. So is the rate of knife crimes.

< Message edited by willbeurdaddy -- 1/2/2011 5:02:41 PM >

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RE: Are the British more law abiding than Americans? - 1/2/2011 4:56:57 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy
Very simple, the per capita rate of total crime is higher in the UK than the US. Period.

Could you quote a source for that please, and the threshold point?*

* in crime figures there's always a "threshold" point where you start measuring serious crime, usually taken to be at the personal assault level, so that, for example, one doesn't end up lumping the theft of a prawn sandwich in with, say, rape or murder.

Thanks.

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RE: Are the British more law abiding than Americans? - 1/2/2011 4:58:27 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy
Apparently the entire UK contingent on this board doesnt speak English. Violent crime is not total crime. Murder is not total crime.

I didn't ever say it was. What I've asked you for, and will again, for the third time of asking, is the source of your figures and their stated threshold point.

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RE: Are the British more law abiding than Americans? - 1/2/2011 4:58:49 PM

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FR

I think we're on a hiding to nothing talking about 'more civilised' (or even 'more cultured', for that matter). Those terms are too value-laden. On the other hand, I came across this in the process of some recent searching on murder stats:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article571206.ece

It seems that murder rates might well be related to levels of religious devotion. That is, the more religiously devoted a nation's residents, the more likely they are to murder.

"In general, higher rates of belief in and worship of a creator correlate with higher rates of homicide, juvenile and early adult mortality, STD infection rates, teen pregnancy and abortion in the prosperous democracies."

The authors aren't complimentary about the USA's record. But this is a correlation, mind, it's not an assertion of cause and effect. Me, I'd be deeply suspicious of any view that tried to connect levels of lawlessness (or social dysfunctionality), or their opposites, to any single cause, religious devotion - and even more so, gun ownership - included.

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RE: Are the British more law abiding than Americans? - 1/2/2011 4:59:55 PM

kdsub

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But you didn't say if you agreed with me...just wondering your take...It seems so many here try to say the US is violent...because of guns...I am just saying guns have nothing to do with it... AND would like to know your stance on my thoughts.

Butch

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RE: Are the British more law abiding than Americans? - 1/2/2011 5:05:49 PM

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In 2002 the prison population in the US was 686 per 100,000 people, whilst in the UK it was 139 per 100,000 people.

Obviously we don't know how many of these are 'violent' criminals but you can see an obvious likeliness that there may possibly be far more violent crimes in the US.
I dunno are you still locking up loads of computer hackers and fraudsters in comparison with other types of criminal?

In all the statistics presented comparing the UK to South Africa and the likes nobody has bothered to define what constitutes a violent crime in each nation compared and how those crimes are recorded. Unless you do that your comparison is meaningless.

< Message edited by SL4V3M4YB3 -- 1/2/2011 5:07:20 PM >

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RE: Are the British more law abiding than Americans? - 1/2/2011 5:06:59 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
It seems so many here try to say the US is violent...because of guns...I am just saying guns have nothing to do with it...

Personally, I don't think guns have a lot to do with how violent people are*, but I do think they hugely multiply the effects when people do become violent, if that makes any sense.

So, I don't think Americans are any more inherently violent than the British, but with vastly more guns, and easy access to them, what happens when someone does get a cob in the US tends to be more extreme, and have more effects, than in the UK.

*a small factor, in that it's easy to do huge violence without much effort using a gun, as opposed to having to, say, beat someone up with one's fists or a knife. Thus the lazy and the bullying are granted an easier ride, as it were.

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RE: Are the British more law abiding than Americans? - 1/2/2011 5:12:25 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

Apparently the entire UK contingent on this board doesnt speak English. Violent crime is not total crime. Murder is not total crime.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_percap-crime-murders-per-capita

# 24 United States: 0.042802 per 1,000 people
# 46 United Kingdom: 0.0140633 per 1,000 people

That's for murder... And I know this isn't total crime, total crime the UK would be above the US

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_tot_cri_percap-crime-total-crimes-per-capita
# 1 Dominica: 113.822 per 1,000 people
# 2 New Zealand: 105.881 per 1,000 people
# 3 Finland: 101.526 per 1,000 people
# 4 Denmark: 92.8277 per 1,000 people
# 5 Chile: 88.226 per 1,000 people
# 6 United Kingdom: 85.5517 per 1,000 people
# 7 Montserrat: 80.3982 per 1,000 people
# 8 United States: 80.0645 per 1,000 people

But that would also depend on what is defined as a crime, in "total crime", personally I rather have my pocket picked than be killed, personal choice... Others might see it differently...

When it comes to assaults, rape and murder, the US are way way ahead of the UK, I take the pickpocketing, driving offenses, jay walking and kids found guilty for having drugs...

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_ass_percap-crime-assaults-per-capita
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_rap_percap-crime-rapes-per-capita

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RE: Are the British more law abiding than Americans? - 1/2/2011 5:14:30 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SL4V3M4YB3

In 2002 the prison population in the US was 686 per 100,000 people, whilst in the UK it was 139 per 100,000 people.

Obviously we don't know how many of these are 'violent' criminals but you can see an obvious likeliness that there may possibly be far more violent crimes in the US.
I dunno are you still locking up loads of computer hackers and fraudsters in comparison with other types of criminal?

In all the statistics presented comparing the UK to South Africa and the likes nobody has bothered to define what constitutes a violent crime in each nation compared and how those crimes are recorded. Unless you do that your comparison is meaningless.

Its not meaningless, it is what it is. If you think "violent crimes", unlikely to affect most individuals in either country, is the appropriate standard thats your qualitative judgement. If you think property crime, much more likely to affect most individuals in both countries, is the appropriate standard thats also you prerogative. If you think feeling safe on the streets after dark is important, good for you.

I simply stated a fact that politesub had wrong.

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RE: Are the British more law abiding than Americans? - 1/2/2011 5:16:23 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy
Its not meaningless, it is what it is.

But you haven't actually stated what "it" is yet ... in other words, can you please cite the reference you're using for that claim, and its threshold point?

Thank you.

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RE: Are the British more law abiding than Americans? - 1/2/2011 5:21:46 PM

kdsub

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Yes I agree... and... if that is the case then why waste money trying to elect people that will try to change the Constitution when that is not the problem? There would be a bigger impact if that money were used to reduce the core problems that manifest this violence.

People seem to fixate on guns rather than the problems that cause their misuse.

To me it is like abortion... those in opposition would make a bigger difference in abortion if they were to use their money to help pregnant women cope with their pregnancies rather then elect useless politicians to try and change the law.

Butch

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