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#2: Honour & Duty - 6/15/2011 12:20:31 AM

HeatherMcLeather

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On another thread about forced bi, I said I would be forced by my honour and sense of duty to comply with an order. That got me thinking

We hear a lot about duty and honour and keeping one's word, but almost always with regards a Dominant (especially male doms). What about with subs/slaves.

Do you feel bound by your honour or sense of duty to obey?

As a sub/slave, do you have the same duty to keep your word as is usually ascribed to Dominants?

RE: #2: Honour & Duty - 6/15/2011 1:32:03 AM

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Chaos and i wouldn't be where we are today if not for a mutual bond of loving honour and duty to one another.

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RE: #2: Honour & Duty - 6/15/2011 4:07:13 AM

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absolutely!! It's a huge huge part of our relationship for us both. Our integrity to each other and other people in general is extremely important to us both. It's simply part of our moral code in life that we share and probably what really drew us towards each other.

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RE: #2: Honour & Duty - 6/15/2011 5:34:53 AM

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totally; honesty and integrity are too important for people on either side.

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RE: #2: Honour & Duty - 6/15/2011 6:26:50 AM

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Obedience isn't primary in my relationship, emotional transparency is. Plus I'm not supposed to do anything that would lead to resenting him and weakening the relationship unless I've talked to him about it first. And having sex with someone without wanting to would certainly create resentment and loss of trust.

Additionally I'm also supposed to behave honorably and honesty with everyone. Which means pretending I find someone attractive and then bursting into tears or throwing up when push comes to shove is not honorable or being honest towards the other person.

I have never understood how people can demand that their partners are honest with them but lie barefaced to others. And having sex with someone knowing you'll hate the thought of them afterward and will never want to talk to them again is dishonorable. Unless you tell them upfront that the idea of doing it is offensive and you'll do your best to forget their face immediately after. Do you? Or does your relationship state that you lie to others but are honest with each other? And if so, how can you trust an admitted and accomplished liar to be truthful?

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RE: #2: Honour & Duty - 6/15/2011 7:17:51 AM

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Yes it is my duty to obey him, but it is my duty to myself first, to be true to myself. If he wants something of me that is going to end up being emotionally or physically harmful to me, we're going to talk about it. He expects that of me, as sometimes things come up and he doesn't yet know what landmines they might trigger.

So if something is a really huge deal to me and gives me that "Oh my god I'm crumbling inside" feeling again (one I used to live with quite regularly), my sense of honor to myself is going to override my sense of obedience to him, and I'm going to speak up about it.

It's happened. He realized the emotional consequences and that the result could harm our relationship, and he put it on the back burner.

Otherwise, I don't really think about honor and duty. He says, I do, and we go on our happy little way. It's only those emotional landmines which detour us on rare occasion. However, if he still wants me to do it, I'll do it. The messy fallout, if any, becomes his to clean up.

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RE: #2: Honour & Duty - 6/15/2011 7:20:15 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

I have never understood how people can demand that their partners are honest with them but lie barefaced to others. And having sex with someone knowing you'll hate the thought of them afterward and will never want to talk to them again is dishonorable. Unless you tell them upfront that the idea of doing it is offensive and you'll do your best to forget their face immediately after. Do you? Or does your relationship state that you lie to others but are honest with each other? And if so, how can you trust an admitted and accomplished liar to be truthful?

what an excellent point.
note: i don't think this thread is necessarily about this, though. i think this is simply about honor/duty/integrity/honesty, and how that applies to s-types. you DO hear about it all the time, generally in reference to male Dominants and how they're supposed to treat their partners, so i think this thread is JUST about how the s-folks view it in relation to themselves.

to me, honesty and integrity is saying "yes, sir," but it's also in speaking up about something that could potentially be detrimental. there are some who don't want that element to their relationships for whatever reason, or they want a "yes" to anything, even if it means you're walking out the door the next day (literally or figuratively), and i think most people tend to avoid thinking about the negative stuff, but there is a duty to integrity then, too.

< Message edited by LillyBoPeep -- 6/15/2011 7:24:40 AM >

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RE: #2: Honour & Duty - 6/15/2011 7:41:38 AM

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Neither Carol or myself base our relationship on rights, duties, obligations, or promises. Carol is not bound by any promise to obey since she hasn't made any such promise nor would I want her to. In fact, I can't really think of any "promise" to me that I'd want her to honor.

In general, Carol is a very trustworthy person. She also lies, fibs, misleads, and misdirects from time to time.

EDIT: I take it back. That's my viewpoint. To Carol the promise matters... even when I said, "Fine, I relieve you of that promise".

< Message edited by leadership527 -- 6/15/2011 7:44:36 AM >

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RE: #2: Honour & Duty - 6/15/2011 9:06:42 AM

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quote:

Do you feel bound by your honour or sense of duty to obey?

As a sub/slave, do you have the same duty to keep your word as is usually ascribed to Dominants?

I feel honor bound to keep my word, but I do not feel honor bound to be "obedient". I would never give my word on my honor to be so because eventually in the stream of time I would fail.

I do not want a TPE relationship. I do not want someone who is really into the entire "obey or leave" way of thinking. Yes, I even want to be consulted about the power a man wants over me, and I want to have a voice in determining which aspects of my life are under his control, and which ones are not. Perhaps that would change as a relationship developed, and that would be communicated about also.

I think of blanket obedience as a way of not fully communicating, and I am just talking about myself and my experience with the first dom I was with. He used obedience as a way to get what he wanted without communicating with me, and it left me very unhappy and dissatisfied. I am in a relationship for both of us, not just a man. If I am not happy, either it gets addressed, or I am not there anymore. And if that makes me less than submissive, well, fuck it I do not care about that label anyways.

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RE: #2: Honour & Duty - 6/15/2011 9:32:41 AM

ranja

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My Husband and i have the same amount of duty towards eachother and our marriage... our roles are different, our needs and feelings are different; He is dominant and i am submissive, still we have equal rights to happiness and we have an equal amount of give and take to do... this is our power exchange

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RE: #2: Honour & Duty - 6/15/2011 9:46:17 AM

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quote:

I think of blanket obedience as a way of not fully communicating, and I am just talking about myself and my experience with the first dom I was with. He used obedience as a way to get what he wanted without communicating with me, and it left me very unhappy and dissatisfied. I am in a relationship for both of us, not just a man. If I am not happy, either it gets addressed, or I am not there anymore. And if that makes me less than submissive, well, fuck it I do not care about that label anyways.

I agree with that statement. If a relationship of any kind is going to work, then both parties have to work at it together. Just because it's a D/s relationship doesn't mean that the be all end all is about obedience above honesty and all else. My marriage was based on me spending alot of time hiding my feelings and doing things just to make him happy. I learned from that and will not ever go through that again. I won''t be with someone who expects me to hide the truth, nor will I be with someone who refuses to listen to the truth.

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RE: #2: Honour & Duty - 6/15/2011 9:55:38 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

Do you feel bound by your honour or sense of duty to obey?

As a sub/slave, do you have the same duty to keep your word as is usually ascribed to Dominants?

I feel honor bound to keep my word, but I do not feel honor bound to be "obedient". I would never give my word on my honor to be so because eventually in the stream of time I would fail.

I do not want a TPE relationship. I do not want someone who is really into the entire "obey or leave" way of thinking. Yes, I even want to be consulted about the power a man wants over me, and I want to have a voice in determining which aspects of my life are under his control, and which ones are not. Perhaps that would change as a relationship developed, and that would be communicated about also.

I think of blanket obedience as a way of not fully communicating, and I am just talking about myself and my experience with the first dom I was with. He used obedience as a way to get what he wanted without communicating with me, and it left me very unhappy and dissatisfied. I am in a relationship for both of us, not just a man. If I am not happy, either it gets addressed, or I am not there anymore. And if that makes me less than submissive, well, fuck it I do not care about that label anyways.

What she said. And as always, when someone asks if a normal way of communicating or behaving as human being is or should be any different if the humans are into BDSM, I say, behave as you would want to be treated by anyone, regardless of type of relationship.

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RE: #2: Honour & Duty - 6/15/2011 10:15:57 AM

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So how do people feel about honor/duty from the s-type perspective in general? Leadership's post about how the "promise" still mattered to Carol was interesting.
Do you think of it as something you generally apply to your life? How does it occur in your life?

Like NuevaVida's post about her duty to her M and also to herself, i.e. to speak up about something that could really harm the relationship. But how else?
Part of it for me is to always represent myself as realistically as I can; some guys are into blind obedience, and i'm just a naturally curious person who asks questions, OR yes -- i wouldn't just say "yes" to something that i knew would drastically change the relationship (or damage the value of the relationship) just for the sake of blind obedience.

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RE: #2: Honour & Duty - 6/15/2011 10:48:14 AM

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I feel extremely honor-bound to do anything I've agreed to do or promised to do or taken on the responsiblity of doing. It's the way I was raised. And if I can't do it, I either talk to the one I'm obligated to to so that they can make other arrangements, or I make the arrangements to have whatever it is done.

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RE: #2: Honour & Duty - 6/15/2011 10:52:06 AM

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quote:

Like NuevaVida's post about her duty to her M and also to herself, i.e. to speak up about something that could really harm the relationship. But how else?

I am not in a relationship right now, so I cannot answer that question. To me concepts like "obedience" are relationship specific. Concepts such as "honor" are not. I have my own honor code outside of any other person that is for me. How a dynamic works is between me and the other person.... and such concepts as "obedience" take two people to hammer out the details. I cannot be obedient to myself, for example.

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RE: #2: Honour & Duty - 6/15/2011 10:57:33 AM

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i'm not in a relationship either, and i'm not specifically talking about obedience, but even as an unattached person, when i've met people who say they want "blind obedience," i feel the most honorable thing for me to do is to be honest about who i am, and continue to get to know them until such time as it seems that we wouldn't really be compatible.
sometimes people pick up buzzwords, for instance, but their personal meaning behind it is much different.
but still, when i hear that phrase, it's up to me to be honest with myself and with them.

i dunno if i'm derailing the thread by talking about honor/duty in general rather than specifically in regards to obedience (if i am, sorry Heather =p)
usually when i've seen it applied to Dominants, it's pretty general. a "duty to his submissive's wellbeing," or simply "being honorable, or a man of integrity" -- sometimes those things are easy to say, but the meanings aren't always clear. and these statements usually aren't applied to s-types.

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RE: #2: Honour & Duty - 6/15/2011 11:01:40 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: HeatherMcLeather

Do you feel bound by your honour or sense of duty to obey?

No. I'm not that noble. I obey because it's in my best interest to do so if I want to maintain the current relationship I share with TheManUnit and I do want to maintain it.

quote:

As a sub/slave, do you have the same duty to keep your word as is usually ascribed to Dominants?[/color]

I know I don't have the final word in my relationship so I don't, generally, make promises or committments unless I ask first if it's okay.. then, yes, once I have the green light, I expect him to keep *his* word and so as allow me to keep mine. Shit happens though so I do the best I can around the circumstances of the time and I wouldn't make a promise that I had no intention of keeping outside of external influences.

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RE: #2: Honour & Duty - 6/15/2011 11:13:49 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: HeatherMcLeather
Do you feel bound by your honour or sense of duty to obey?

As a sub/slave, do you have the same duty to keep your word as is usually ascribed to Dominants?

Yes and yes. The importance of honor or 'duty' to keeping your word is practically self-evident. It is closely related to honesty, which is essential. It does not mean you can't change your mind but it does require you to communicate about whatever you promised rather than neglecting it without discussion. That type of integrity with regard to commitment is also why I think obedience is in part driven by honor and duty. If you agree to it, then you are bound by honor to obey. Duty is a different concept because it implies an ongoing condition of obligation and responsibility that began with your consent to become subject to a Dominant's control. Honor is a moral virtue that requires exercising integrity. Duty can be successfully performed simply by complying with the Dominant's will.

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RE: #2: Honour & Duty - 6/15/2011 11:23:39 AM

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that's an interesting post, lthrpup ^_^
i wonder if people in the Leather lifestyle have a different opinion? One thing i've gathered from talking to some Leatherfolk is that they do place a good deal of importance on things like this, though that could just be the opinion of people i've talked to, which hasn't been very many. =p
i would like to talk to more Leatherfolk, though, to get more understanding of them.

i will say, there were times in my last relationship, where i did something because i felt "bound" to M and that i HAD to do it. not making a claim to being more noble than anyone else, but i know there were times when i felt a sense of "duty" to my word and the agreement that we'd made, and honestly to him, and his happiness, and that guided my actions a few times.

that's kinda why i'm thinking about the "duty to his s-type's well being" thing -- i have seen that statement applied to Doms/Masters, and i'm wondering if subs/slaves feel anything similar? do you believe you have some duty to your D-types well-being? a good portion of people here believe that both halves are responsible for the survival/success of the relationship; is that a kind of duty?

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RE: #2: Honour & Duty - 6/15/2011 12:47:26 PM

OwnedFemaleFlesh

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I always feel that my word is my bond, and this extends to my consent and my slavery - my promises to serve him, to focus on his pleasure, to accept whatever pain he wants to give me. This is why it's fairly pointless for me to have a safeword, I sort of feel it's breaking my promise if I use it. Don't get me wrong, I've stopped casual scenes I wasn't enjoying before now, but with a committed partner who I've promised to submit to, it seems like a cop-out to quit when the going gets tough. I know that's not what safewords are about, and that's more my hang up than anything else, but it's just the way I've always felt.

owned xxx

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